Gen 1 - Idle Issue - Suggestions

Hi folks, I've done a lot of searching on the site and I think I've got a direction to go in but I thought I would run it by the collective brain trust and see what ya'll think....

Tonight I got a chance to take a pretty decent ride two-up with the wife on my new to me 04. The bike had 823 miles when I bought it on Saturday and it appeared to have a weird idle/slow speed issue when I drove it off the lot. I wasn't sure if it was (a new to me) issue or if it there was something to it. Tonight's ride was about 100 miles and there is definitely a miss/idle thing going on. When stopped the idle is erratic, moving from 900 to 1000, slightly higher then lower etc etc. Also anything below 2000 rpm it acts like an old 2-stroke dirt bike where you have to keep the rpms up or it's sluggish....(hope that makes sense). In other words another example is - I was making a left hand turn from one road to another and I felt as if it may cut out on me halfway thru the turn unless I kept the revs up. I turned the idle up to about 1100 with no real change.

In my reading on this site I've read about SeaFoam, TBS sync, plugs and also Main ECU connector as possible culprits. Ok now my question.....with the low miles the bike has; it's obviously been sitting, dealer said they performed all maint.....fluids etc etc so I am wondering where you all would start....I will try some SeaFoam tomorrow because that's easy but I'm not sure where to head next just cus of the low miles. Would the connector already be corroded? TBS already out of sync? Am I even on the right track?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

BTW - when cruising it runs like a top...but when you need to get on it in a hurry there is a hiccup hiccup hiccup and then hang on!! lol

Thanks again.

Hi Eric.

Excellent choice. The '04 non-ABS is well known to be the best FJR model ever.

After a year here I still consider myself a 'newbie' and still learning.

I'm guessing the bike came with fresh (2013) gas? SeaFoam may help, certainly won't hurt it. Last Fall mine rolled to a halt in a rainstorm, re-started eventually but would barely run under 2000 rpm. I cleaned the main connectors under the tank which were corroded a bit - it has run great ever since.

Others, with much greater knowledge, will be along soon.

Good luck.

Al.

Hi Eric,

I guess this gives you a chance to explore your new ride, they are a hoot. I can't believe the miles on your bike what a score. Try the least expensive things first and try not to double up on work. For example if you are thinking TBS it could be worth checking all else under the tank at the same time, spark plugs, leads and so on, even valve clearances could be an issue.

Best regards

Surly

Was the TPS recall done? .?

I'd check for any fault codes then give the bike a good service.

Plugs, oils and filter, air filter, check water level, there is a wax fuse on the throttle bodies supplied with coolant for cold/hot idle rpm's.

Run up the bike to near temp, make sure coolant circulates under the cap, could just need a "burp"

Hot idle around 1050 -1100 RPM.

Petrol can go off, as you said, esp ethanol, shouldn't be used at all.

Nearly everything electrical is via the ECU, could pay to check that connector.

Good luck

Corrosion shouldn't be a factor if it's been inside, but if it's been in somebody's driveway for 8 or 9 years, then there's no telling what's gonna be in them wires.

Just sitting like that, I would be surprised if the injectors haven't mucked up a bit. Seafoam in every tank for a few tanks might clear that up, but it might also be worth having them looked at, and if need be, fixed. Patriot had a thread a year or so back about doing so himself, but I'm sleepy and my search-fu is weak.

Checking the main connectors is a bit of a chore, but not too bad. You have to lift the tank and simply find the connectors around the front of the frame, behind the steering head area. Disconnect them and just look inside at the plugs and pins. You'll know if there's an issue......

As for recalls, any Yamaha dealer can look up your VIN and tell you if the recalls, if any, are up to date.

Check your TPS with the diagnostic screen. Read post 3 https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/3283-throttle-position-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=37996. The throttle position sensor was recalled on gen1's. Easy to check its operation.

The SEAFOAM may help....it'll smoke a lot, but my bet would be bad gas or gummed up injectors from sitting so much.

Very first thing to do is raise the idle speed to 1100 rpm exactly. Err on the high side if you must. Many a bike has had stalling / driveability issues just from the idle being too low.

Next, consider that all of these bikes have a somewhat lumpy idle, so if you are expecting it to be perfectly smooth, it won't be. Here is a

that demostrates the normal amount of idle "burble" with a stock and aftermarket exhaust (easier to hear on the aftermarket one). If yours sounds like that you can be assured your bike is A-OK.
Also, there isn't a whole lot of power being developed by these engine below about 2500 rpm, so what you mention about it acting like a two-stroke that is "off the pipe" may be that you are trying to accelerate it from right off idle. Try keeping the rpms just a little bit higher and see if that feels any better.

I wouldn't do any TBSing until you have run a couple tanks of Seafoam through it to make sure all the njectors are clean and squirting equally. The normal dosing rate of Seafoam is 1-2 oz per gallon of fuel. If you want to give it a Seafoam "shock treatment," that might help clear some gunk out too.

To give your fuel system a "shock treatment" let the gas level drop to 1 bar on the fuel gauge. You'll have roughly 1 1/2-2 gallons left in the tank at that point. Add 1/2 of a pint sized can of seafoam to the tank (8 oz.). Start and run the engine until fully warmed up with the concentrated fuel mixture, then shut the engine off and leave it overnight or at least 4 hours. After shutting the engine off refill the tank with fresh fuel, which will cut the fuel mixture in the tank down to "normal" dosing rates. The concentrated mixture will sit in the injectors and fuel system until you restart the bike. When you first start the bike after the fuel system soak don't be surprised if it belches out some black sooty exhaust for a little while, that is normal.

When you've done all of the above and are still convinced you have a problem, you can then do a TBS and the vacuum levels and behaviors may be diagnostic of any differences in the 4 cylinders. I wouldn't expect a TBS to fix a misfiring bike, but at least you'll have a way to visualize which cylinder(s) it is happening in and can then do more troubleshooting.

Chiefblueman said:

Check your TPS with the diagnostic screen. Read post 3 https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/3283-throttle-position-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=37996. The throttle position sensor was recalled on gen1's. Easy to check its operation.

Click to expand...

The TPS is going to need to be changed if it hasn't been already. When your dealer runs your VIN they will be able to tell you about any recalls.

The TPS is a wear-out failure and does not fail by sudden death. On a bike that has as low mileage as this (great score) FJR the TPS is almost certainly good. Also, the TPS typically fails in a very narrow rpm range causing the engine to run poorly only in the narrow rpm range.

The symptoms are similar to a vacuum leak. Check to see that the rubber caps are on the sync ports of the throttle bodies. Check the band clamps on the rubber boots that connect the throttle bodies to the intake of the engine.

Check to see if at some point in this FJR's life someone may have done a Barbarian Jumper modification. You can do this by simply entering the diAG mode. If it offers CO adjustments the jumper has been done. If the jumper has been added check the values that are entered and inspect the connector on the ECU.

Wow thanks for all the great responses! I will go ahead and put some seafoam in at lunch today and see if that helps.

kamal said:

Hi Eric.Excellent choice. The '04 non-ABS is well known to be the best FJR model ever.

After a year here I still consider myself a 'newbie' and still learning.

I'm guessing the bike came with fresh (2013) gas? SeaFoam may help, certainly won't hurt it. Last Fall mine rolled to a halt in a rainstorm, re-started eventually but would barely run under 2000 rpm. I cleaned the main connectors under the tank which were corroded a bit - it has run great ever since.

Others, with much greater knowledge, will be along soon.

Good luck.

Al.

Click to expand...

Thanks I think it's the best year too!! Of course it's the only year I've ever had.....lol. It does have 2013 gas (lol); I know this to be true because when I looked at it on the showroom floor it had "1 bar" of gas and when I picked it up on Saturday it was full! I didn't think dealers did that anymore!

Surly said:

Hi Eric,I guess this gives you a chance to explore your new ride, they are a hoot. I can't believe the miles on your bike what a score. Try the least expensive things first and try not to double up on work. For example if you are thinking TBS it could be worth checking all else under the tank at the same time, spark plugs, leads and so on, even valve clearances could be an issue.

Best regards

Surly

Click to expand...

Thanks for some reason I do enjoy getting in and seeing how stuff works, but fortunately I know when to stop too....well most times....lol. Anyway I think I will lift the tank this evening and check the connector since so many people report having success.

FJRay said:

Was the TPS recall done? .?

Click to expand...

Great question and one I think I will call today and find the answer. I wasn't sure how that would be recorded but as I see below it's all done off the VIN so that is great.

Queensland Ken said:

I'd check for any fault codes then give the bike a good service.Plugs, oils and filter, air filter, check water level, there is a wax fuse on the throttle bodies supplied with coolant for cold/hot idle rpm's.

Run up the bike to near temp, make sure coolant circulates under the cap, could just need a "burp"

Hot idle around 1050 -1100 RPM.

Petrol can go off, as you said, esp ethanol, shouldn't be used at all.

Nearly everything electrical is via the ECU, could pay to check that connector.

Good luck

Click to expand...

"Supposedly" the dealer gave it a "good" service before I bought it. He told me to consider the 1000 mile service completed. I will add burping my new baby to the list of to-do's though. Thanks!

wfooshee said:

Corrosion shouldn't be a factor if it's been inside, but if it's been in somebody's driveway for 8 or 9 years, then there's no telling what's gonna be in them wires.
Just sitting like that, I would be surprised if the injectors haven't mucked up a bit. Seafoam in every tank for a few tanks might clear that up, but it might also be worth having them looked at, and if need be, fixed. Patriot had a thread a year or so back about doing so himself, but I'm sleepy and my search-fu is weak.

Checking the main connectors is a bit of a chore, but not too bad. You have to lift the tank and simply find the connectors around the front of the frame, behind the steering head area. Disconnect them and just look inside at the plugs and pins. You'll know if there's an issue......

As for recalls, any Yamaha dealer can look up your VIN and tell you if the recalls, if any, are up to date.

Click to expand...

It appears to have been stored inside as there is only dust on things. All the bolts even on the bottom side by the road are still nice and shiny. So the SeaFoam treatments may take a few tankfuls then, I will keep trying. I guess the smoking as said below will be of the white variety and continue thru the whole tank? I will watch for this. This is one of the thoughts that I also had about gummed up injectors. This is the part where as I said above I know it's time to stop...lol...if it comes to injector checking etc I will let the dealer mess with that. I did get a "bumper to bumper" warranty from said dealer as part of the deal so if it gets too deep I will let him play with it. As long as it's manageable I will use this opportunity to get acquainted with her. So the connector issue will be obvious? That is also good to know!

Chiefblueman said:

Check your TPS with the diagnostic screen. Read post 3 https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/3283-throttle-position-sensor/?do=findComment&comment=37996. The throttle position sensor was recalled on gen1's. Easy to check its operation.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this info also. I will check this at lunch too! This is too simple not to do! I have already bookmarked and printed this info out. I guess I need to start a binder of good info for this bike too! Gotta love this forum! Thanks again one and all!

Thanks Fred W.....I was wondering if I could concentrate the SeaFoam, you read my mind! I will do this then with the Seafoam....(guess that means I'll have to go for another ride this evening to use up some of the gas)....but I take one for the team! The soak idea sounds like a good idea as my gut tells me this injector thing makes sense....

I will check the band clamps when I lift the tank and check the codes also. I had not run across the "Barbarian mod" so I will research that too.

Thanks again!! I've got a good list of to do's now!

Barbarian Jumper.

Quick update: I called the dealer this morning and he assured me that all recalls had been completed on the bike. I took the instructions above and entered "diag" mode (Side note: I didn't see anything about CO check so I'm assuming no Barbarian jumper mod) and the throttle checked out perfectly. 15 on the low and 99 on the high end. I throttled it up very slowly and saw absolutely no dropouts. I have about 1/2 tank of fuel so I will try to use up as much as I can this evening and do a SeaFoam soak.

Thanks again everyone for your assistance!

Nothing like being forced to use up fuel!!!

Those completed recalls didn't, by any chance, include swapping the cam chain tensioner for the new model, did they? If so, the mechanic may have let the chain skip a tooth during installation. That's what happened to my '05, and the symptoms sound the same. WBill

For a 9 year old bike with only 823 miles on it, it's sat somewhere for a long, long time. If it's been sitting at a dealership for all that time, I'd doubt it's been on the showroom floor for 9 years. Possibly/probably sitting "in the back" where new bikes are stored before un-crating. In other words, in a big, open garage.

I'd take a quick peek in the air box to make sure rodents haven't built nests in there..

Conclusion - I hate threads that never post their findings so for future noobs and folks who search for idle issues....my idle issue seems to be resolved. I believe there were a few things going on....first, as said above the bike had been sitting so I think it was in desperate need of a SeaFoam soak! I let it set overnight and surprisingly it didn't spew out as much garbage as I thought it would. After setting all night I went and filled up again and she is idling much better!! The needle is not bouncing all over the place anymore! The youtube comparison video was a great help.

Second thing was I believe the idle was in fact set too low. I turned it up to about 1300 or so and saw a remarkable difference in drivability at slow speeds. Now that she is idling normally I turned it back down to about 1200 which is where I think I will leave it.

The third issue I think was between the bars and the seat! lol. I think I was used to the way the V-Twin idles and behaves and wasn't used to the FJR. Two different animals (thank goodness). The more seat time the more I get used to it.

So thanks again for all the help!

Glad you got it straightened out. And thanks for closing the loop. It's always good to record the final solution to these problems for posterity.

For future reference, there is an even more aggressive way to use SeaFoam for de-carbonizing an engine's top end (that will generally produce copious amounts of smoke) which involves directly sucking or injecting full strength SeaFoam into the intake manifold via the TBS vacuum ports. For a bike with as much time but little mileage as this one, there was/is no carbon buildup yet to remove. We were more concerned with cleaning out and residue inside the fuel delivery system and injectors.