Motorcycle Camping - Where to Start? Try Here!

A lot of people have asked me questions about motorcycle camping. I’ve been touring this way for about 4 years and have taken many camping trips all over the country. That doesn’t make me an expert, but I’ve learned a few things along the way and thought I would share my experiences with you. I do recognize that there are many ways to skin this cat, and welcome any contribution any of you may have to this thread.

Throughout this thread, a re-occurring theme should jump out and grab you:

LESS IS BETTER THAN MORE!

The more I do this, the more I realize that I really need a whole lot less than I think. Less means less cost, less weight, less space, less to clean and keep up with. Less is better than more.

Campground Selection:

To me, WHERE you camp is as important as HOW you camp. Of course, we all want to choose a place to camp that offers great scenery. But I have learned that there are many other factors to look at. There are some exceptions, but overwhelmingly, the public campgrounds are far better than the privately owned ones. They are larger with bigger sites, better maintained, usually contain less people within them, and generally less expensive than their privately-owned counterparts.

Federal public campgrounds are found in the National Parks and National Forests. However, the best camping areas I have found are the ones run by the Army Corp of Engineers. These are the cleanest and least used, which makes them more pristine. You can also find public campgrounds at State Parks, State Recreational Areas, and even Municipal parks.

Important for me is that the campground has a paved road to get in, out, and around the campground. If it is not paved, then it can’t be very long as riding 700 pounds of motorcycle and gear on gravel can get very scary.

Regarding amenities at the campsite itself, by far the most important thing is a picnic table because it allows you to get your stuff off the ground for setup and packing. Next in line would be a fire ring, preferably one with an adjustable grill on it for cooking. After that, running water at the site is nice, but if there are restrooms, I can grab the water I need. Next would be a bathhouse for a shower but if that is not available, I bring provisions to take a GI shower, and have even bathed in the lake or stream. I know some of you might balk at that idea, but give it a try. I work in an office and spend my “real-world life” in a box – when I’m on vacation, adventure is preferred. Electricity and water hookups are useless to me and only promote others to bring their rolling houses with loud music, TVs, generators, lights, and other things that just piss me off. In short, with regard to campgrounds, generally LESS IS BETTER THAN MORE.

Camping Gear: Good camping gear cannot be understated. Buy the cheap stuff and you will be disappointed and miserable. Good camping gear is lightweight, packs into a smaller space, and most importantly, is weather resistant. Below is what I use, but there are tons of good stuff out there. A great online vendor to use for camping gear is:

www.rei.com

These people are extremely helpful – if you call them and have questions, they will take great measures to understand your needs and make good recommendations. They have a wonderful return policy, and truly stand behind every product they sell. Shop their closeout stuff for really good deals.

Tent: The rule of thumb on tents is “minus 1”. If the marketing says it’s a “2 man tent”, it will sleep 1 comfortably. Other things to consider:

• If the tent comes with a foot print (a piece of material cut to the exact dimensions of the tent that goes between the ground and the tent to keep moisture from coming up on you from the bottom), this is a plus. If not, you can cut one out from some 4 mil visqueen, but I think the footprint is better.
• Get a full size rain fly that covers the entire tent and has the ability to be velcroed or otherwise tied to the tent. In warmer weather, you can always use your rain fly ties to pull it away from the tent for ventilation. But in a wind driven rain, that full size will be a blessing.
• Run some paracord from each corner of the rain fly to give you more anchor points for it in extra windy conditions
• Look for a mesh “shelf” that forms on the top of the tent, to which you can hang things.
• The zip out “door” opening on the widest dimension of the tent is more convenient to get in and out of , and to load and unload your gear.
• I pack my foot print and rain fly in a separate compression sack than my tent, poles, and stakes. This keeps the wet stuff separate from the dry stuff when traveling
• When you return from your trip, setup your tent outside in the sun for a full day and do not pack it away until it is “crispy dry”. Otherwise, when you go to unpack it on the next trip, it will be full of mold and likely ruined.

This is the tent that I use – it’s made by Marmot:



Sleeping Bag: My rule of thumb for sleeping bags is “Plus 20”. That means if the sleeping bag is rate for “20 degrees F”, in reality, it’s really only good down to 40. Because of this, I have 2 sleeping bags – a 30 degree bag for warmer camping, and a zero degree bag for colder temperatures. I choose which one will give me the best coverage for my anticipated weather.

Other things to consider:

• The down sleeping bags pack much smaller than the regular synthetic bags, but they are a LOT more expensive.
• Get a bag that is long enough for your height. Many of the products offered come in longer lengths if you are taller than 5’-11” inches.
• If you prefer to sleep on your right side, order the version that unzips on the right side (and visa versa). It makes it easier to get in and out from your preferred sleeping position.
• Plan to put your bag in a good compression sack to reduce its size while you are riding.
• Do NOT store your bag in the compression sack at home because over time, you will smash the insulation and render it less useful.
• Follow the care instructions but I would not dry my sleeping bag in the dryer (air dry only).

These are very similar to my two sleeping bags:

Zero Degree:

https://www.rei.com/product/864541/the-north-face-aleutian-0-sleeping-bag

30 Degree Bag doesn’t seem to be available, but it resembles this one inspecifications:

https://www.rei.com/product/870762/rei-polar-pod-sleeping-bag

Air Mattress: This is HUGE – it can make the difference between wonderful and miserable. Things to consider:

• You can get by with a 20” wide mattress, but a 24” wide will be much more comfortable.
• Again, if you are taller than 5-10”, pick an air mattress that is sized “long”, or your feet will be hanging off the end of it.
• Choose an air mattress with an insulative value of at least R-3. The one I have now is far less insulative and during very cold nights, by early morning, I can feel the temperature coming up my back.
• The stuff sack that comes with the mattress is sufficient.
• Some of the air mattresses come with a separate chamber that can be used as a pillow. This can save you some packing space.
• Take care before you place your tent to remove any acorns, sticks, rocks, etc. that might poke through the tent and into your mattress.
• Many people bring an air pump but that is not necessary. It will take about 30 breaths to blow it up. I usually do it in stages. Blow 10 breaths, then do something else while I catch my breath. Rinse, lather, repeat….

This is similar to the mattress that I use now:

https://www.rei.com/product/868743/alps-mountaineering-lightweight-air-pad-regular-special-buy

But this would be a better choice for a little more money (insulative)

https://www.rei.com/product/868718/alps-mountaineering-endurance-air-sleeping-pad-long-special-buy

Pillow: I can’t sleep well without a pillow. I tried to use a bag full of clothes on a trip, but it was ineffective. So I bought a pillow that comes with its own stuff sack.

This is the pillow I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Grand-Trunk-TP-01-Travel-Pillow/dp/B001M0O2AQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428700268&sr=8-1&keywords=grand+trunk+pillow

Camping Chair: You can spend a LOT of money on a camping chair, but for compactness and comfort, this one is very hard to beat:

https://www.rei.com/product/829239/rei-flex-lite-chair

Tarp: I bought this tarp to help me get out of the weather. It’s large enough to shelter my tent, my camping chair, and my bike. I tie it to 2 trees, and use a stick for the third pole. Then position the stick such that the water runs down the tarp and off the stick corner (down hill from the rest), then the water runs away from me. I bought a compression sack to hold this tarp and it is fantastic.

https://www.rei.com/product/808940/kelty-noahs-tarp-12-x-12

Dry Bag for holding all Gear: You need something to hold all of your gear. You want to be able to strap it down on the pillion seat with some Rok Straps (I do NOT like bungee cords). A large compression bag is a great way to go. BION, there is an art to packing your bag and you will just have to experiment with it on your own to find your best way. I arrange my gear such that when I pull the compression straps tight, the cross section of the bag is more rectangular (tall and narrow), which gives me the most seat room on my bike.

Someone gave me a waterproof compression dry bag made by Cabelo’s a few years ago and it is fantastic. I can’t find a duplicate but it works like this one:

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Sea-to-Summit-Compression-Stuff-Sack/715030.uts

Other items I bring in my “house bag” are:

Camp Saw – this thing is fantastic – it will cut up some wood in a hurry and takes up no space and weighs next to nothing:

(shop it online – you can find it cheaper – got mine for $20.00 shipped!!!)

https://www.coghlans.com/products/folding-saw-8901

Water Bag: This is nice when you don’t have water at your site. Simply go to the restroom and fill ‘er up! I tried the cheaper ones, but they don’t last. This brand (Platypus) has a lifetime warranty and folds down to nothing:

https://www.fontanasports.com/water-tank-6-liter-1407?cvsfa=2731&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=33333430&gclid=cjqwmyex78qcfqwzaqodqdiarw

Small Battery Operated Fan for stoking up a stubborn fire.

https://www.qualitylogoproducts.com/tradeshow-promotions/fan.htm?variant=BLANK&imageID=270743&gclid=CLXIt76x78QCFQmmaQodbpsAOA

Micro-towel: I picked up a 16” x 24” micro-towel in the car wash section of Walmart for about $5 bucks. It’s a great bath towel that folds up to nothing. I usually shower in the evening so I hang the towel in my tent to dry (on the shelf) overnight. If it’s not dry in the morning, I run it under my camping bag straps and let it get the “60 mph dryer” in the morning.

Kitchen: I pack my entire kitchen in my top box, which is a 31 Liter Givi Mono-key. Here is what I take with me:



My refrigerator is a simple collapsible insulated bag that will hold approx 2 quarts. Many times we cook on night one and I’ll bring a few frozen pork chops or something – this bag will keep them all day. Sometimes we will stop at a grocery to pick up supplies to cook. I will get a bag of ice and tie it to my camping bag. When I get to the campground, I use one of my saddlebags as an ice chest – it will keep ice overnight very well.



I bring an 8” frying pan and a spatula – cheapie walmart specials.



My plastic camping plate – again $2.00 at walmart.



I bring these two grilling pans that I bought at World Market for $20.00. They are heavy duty and are about 6” x 12”. When there is no grill at the campsite, we can sit these on some rocks or whatever and cook on them. I’ve cooked chicken, pork chops, steaks, potatoes, veggies, etc.



Two aluminum re-fillable water bottles (about 2 quarts)



A fire starter brick



Can goods and my small Tupperware of coffee



Can’t forget the beer huggie!



Collapsible coffee filter funnel.



Fuel for my stove.



A 750 ml flask filled with my spirit of choice (usually Heradura Tequilla).



My stove, cups, and pot. Everything fits into the pot. The pot and cup set is made by Stanley, and the stove is a snow peak unit.

https://www.shopstanley-pmi.com/product/adventure-camp-cook-set-24-oz-stainless-steel

https://www.rei.com/product/643058/snow-peak-gigapower-auto-stove





My friend Mike made me this great wind shield for my stove. I folds up to nothing, has small holes to allow a little draft in, and provides great protection against the wind. This cuts way down on my fuel use for my stove.



Then I bring this 1-gallon Ziploc bag of my kitchen goodies:



In this bag, I have:

Condiment packets that I grabbed from a fast food restaurant (ketchup, mustard, mayo, lemon juice, tobacco, sugar, sweet-n-low etc)

Coffee creamer

Coffee filters

Small bottle of olive oil

Small container of salt and pepper

Small container of season all (Tony Chaceries)

Small container of BBQ sauce

Small container of dish washing soap and scrub sponge

Couple of lighters

Handful of napkins

Couple of trash bags (walmart bags are nice)

Bottle Opener

Couple of Sporks

You can make your own party pack by picking up a set of the trial sized containers in the toiletry section of Walmart for a few bucks. Make sure you get containers made of Polypropylene. Polyethylene is not safe as a food container.

Other things that I always have on the bike that I also use for camping:

Good headlamp with a spare set of batteries (LED lights are great)

Small LED flashlight

Multi-tool with a sharp knife (my Kobalt unit is excellent)

OTC medicines (Ibuprofin, Anti-histimine, Anti-acid, etc)

First Aid Kit

Spare set of prescription glasses (my old pair)

Spare set of batteries (AAA and AA)

Having a riding buddy that also camps is helpful because each of you can contribute and you can avoid bringing duplicate stuff.

For your first trip, I would suggest you try a 1-night camping ride on a place around 100 miles away. Pick a couple of good weather days to minimize the challenges. Take you time and bring a pen and note pad. You will think of stuff you forgot or would like to have while you are out there. Jot it down then because your memory will fade by the time you get home.

Also, the bike will feel a bit heavy when you start out. The added weight of the camping stuff will make your suspension sag just a bit lower (be sure to adjust your suspension to accommodate the additional weight). After about 10 minutes, it gets normal to me. Take you time and get used to it. Tighten down your straps and after about 10 miles, stop and re-check them to make sure you are secure.

I hope this information is helpful and useful to you.

Spousal Unit and I camp a great deal. You have some great info... thanks. It is easier to do it when there are two bikes. I always carry the tent and we each carry our own kit. We do no cooking beyond boiling water in a Jet Boil for coffee and once in a great while a dehydrated meal. If we eat at the camp site it is normally something like wine, cheese, crackers, salami and humus. We have three tents ranging in size from 3 person to a RedVerz huge tent. What we take depends on the nature of the trip. We ride to Alaska and the Yukon every year or so and we take our medium tent that goes up and down easily. If we are going to a rally and plan to be in one location, then it is the RedVerz.

Again, good stuff, thanks.

Good stuff 'pants, thanks for taking the time to put it together!

Your RRs make camping look really simple and it seems y'all always eat like kings. Gotta say, camping off the bike definitely opens up more possibilities for stops and touring on a budget. We've done it a couple times...need [much] more practice to be proficient!

--G

Wow, thanks pants!

Very nicely put together, pants.

One of the features of camping in the southern states is the heat and humidity. Maximum ventilation while being protected from insects is the order of the day.

There are a number of insect-proof bivvies well worth a look. If you combine one of those with a full coverage rain-fly it's all the protection you will need. In northern states tents are a better option.

I have a specific need that might resonate with some. I often find myself stopping for three or four hours, and needing sleep. It's not worth a motel room and I would rather spend the money on gas. So I need something protective, that I can set up in minutes, and is good on any surface. The surface is usually concrete

So I bought a US Military Sleep System, and a Thermarest Pad. I can deploy it and be comfy in under 10 minutes. I usually need only the outer shell and the thinner of the sleeping bags and the whole lot fits easily in one of the sidecases with room for other stuff.

A very good list and good hints, Pants. I hope you don't mind my chiming in with some additional ideas. Maybe this thread can be used for camping ideas for the upcoming season. We seem to have similar camping styles, and even use a lot of the same gear, but here are a few of my ideas.

Instead of a pump to revive a fire, I use a small hose. Just try to remember which end you put in your mouth for the next campfire. I carry my gear in a "Dry Pak" waterproof duffel on the pillion seat too (likewise with Rok Straps), and it's also great for keeping my jacket and boots and other things dry and protected overnight, instead of crowding all that into the tent with me. When I break camp, I just toss my sleeping bag and the tent and fly in there loosely. No point re-packing them every morning, and you can stuff them in to fit around whatever else in there is hard or angular, making the whole bag more comfortable as a backrest. For extra warmth at night, if needed, I use a synthetic sleeping bag liner (also from REI) that truly adds a good ten degrees of warmth, but squeezes down to the size of a softball in its own little bag. Usually not needed, but nice when I use it.

If you're going to want to wash clothes during your trip, I like "Purex Laundry Sheets." One sheet in the laundry takes the place of soap and a dryer sheet too. Carry a few in a zipped baggie, since they have a lot of soapy smell, but they take up almost no space and save trying to buy laundry products in a laundromat from vending machines that seldom work using change you probably won't have.

A small pillow just doesn't do it for me, but I carry my full-sized foam pillow in a compression sack that squeezes down nice and small. And one more thing about your list, as a word of advice for anybody who wants to try m/c camping is: MAKE A LIST! Use Pants' list as a good starting guide, but customize your own, and note EVERY item you bring. Let it be a work in progress, and add to it (or cross off from it) as things occur to you. Take it with you; you'll think of changes you want to make all the time.

Excellent write up. I camp 2-up a lot and found that you just can't carry everything you need, so I bought a trailer. I still have to discipline myself to just take what we need so as to not overload the trailer.

Thank you for reading my post and for adding your own information. I do hope that others share their thoughts as well.

Pterodactyl - I'd like to hear more about your experiences in Alaska. I went to Anchorage and the southern part in June and was surprised to see the biggest and baddest mosquitos I'd ever experienced. This from someone that has lived in swampy Louisiana all his life.

Twigg - for this southerner, BION, my spring camping season is just about over. When the over night temp won't fall below 70 and the humidity won't fall below 60, I'm done. I suppose camping for the LDR is a whole different story. 10 minute setup is impressive. In dry weather, it takes me about 30 minutes to setup camp, and about 45 minutes to break down and pack it. If there is much to do and ride to in the area, some times we will just leave the camp setup and sleep there another night to save the time of setup and breakdown. There is always the worry about someone stealing your stuff while you are gone, but that's never happened to me. I would never leave anything at the camp site truly enticing to steal (money, pistol, electronics, etc) and most Bozos wouldn't know the value of the rest of the stuff anyway. OTOH - having the house with you at all times gives you unlimited options for where the adventure takes you that day. I see it as a win-win.

Escape - you bring up a great advantage of camping - cost savings. Most public sites run about $15.00 and can accommodate at least 2 tents. I've stayed at some that are $5.00 and some that are free. Most private sites are more expensive. If you are careful, and buy on sale, I think you could get my entire setup for about $350.00 (excluding the top box). I've had everything for just about 4 years and its has PLENTY more life left in it. Even riding with a buddy, you could get a return on your entire investment on one 4-night trip. I can motorcycle camp for between $50.00 and $60.00 a night, including bike fuel, food, and alcohol (does not include wear and tear on the bike). On a long trip inevitably, we usually mix in a night or two of hotels. This is why I only bring 4-ish days of clothes regardless of how long the tour is. We can wash clothes on hotel night.

SacromentoMike - I like your duffel and may pick one up to try. It looks much smaller than mine, and truth be told, I don't need that much space. Like you, I stuff my riding gear in my duff at the campsite. I also pull my rain fly on the door side of the tent as far away from the tent as possible. The space created between the tent and rain fly becomes a dry place to keep my boots and a couple of small sticks of fire wood (if overnight showers are predicted). Even if good overnight weather is forecast, my boots will stay dew free without getting all of the dirt in the dent. I'm going to look into the S/B liner - might be a good thing to bring if the temperature swing over the trip is pretty vast (say 30-75 degrees) to give me some more comfortable range.

S/M and I agree, the list is a great idea and even better to bring the list with you. As you see something you need, jot it down right then and there. When you get home, you can go shopping.

Great write-up, thank you for taking all the time to lay this out so clearly.

I'm going to try the "tent" camping gig one of these days. It's just the one side of me that says the motel is just so much easier. Guess that's the lazy side of me, but the adventure of camping has my other side very curious.

I love camping off the back of the motorcycle. I have done car camping, rv camping, motorcycle camping and even backpacking. I actually like them all but motorcycle camping might be the most balanced and closest to the sweet spot of carrying enough but not too much. You take an RV or car and you end up with too much stuff. Backpacking and you can't carry too much or the hiking is brutal. So backpacking camp tends to be pretty sparse.

I find I can get everything I need on the bike pretty easy. Lucky for me being a backpacker first gave me lots of camping equipment I can just use on the bike.

I generally carry this tent the most.

Packs very small and enough rooms for me and most of my gear. The only bit of a down side is it's not a free standing tent. Which means you have to stake it up. The poles will not stand if the tent is not staked. I can't stand in the tent but I can sit up. It's a pain to get dress if you can't even stand.

This pretty much makes up my kitchen. I go really simple on the food when I camp. I generally get a good lunch while out riding. That way supper and breakfast can be pretty simple.
What you see there is just:
Titanium pot
Esbit Stove and fuel tabs
Lighters
Soap
Plastic spoon
Heavy duty aluminum foil (Very important for a wind break while cooking)



All that fits inside the pot. Then goes in that mess bag.
It's fine for making coffee and some grits or oatmeal in the morning.
Usually just heat up some stew or soup for supper.
It's fine for mild weather camping. If you are going to be camping in the cold you might want to upgrade to a fuel stove.
The esbit stove is just for heating up food or boiling water. Not really good for longer duration cooking. Those little fuel tabs burn long enough to boil some water.


Here is my cruiser loaded up for 10 days of camping. Don't have a good picture of the FJR loaded but it loads the same. I just stuff every thing in dry bags and ROX strap them to the bike.



Two products I highly recommend.

Rok Straps - best thing in the world to strap stuff on your bike. Solid hold and will not scratch up your bike.

Seal Line Dry bags. You can't beat them. Not too expensive and I have never had a drop of water get into them.

More later..........

hppants said:

My friend Mike made me this great wind shield for my stove. I folds up to nothing, has small holes to allow a little draft in, and provides great protection against the wind. This cuts way down on my fuel use for my stove.

Click to expand...

I've tried to find the perfect material for a wind blocker without much success.

What did he use?

Rushes - I think he just made it out of some scrap. It's thicker than heavy duty aluminum foil, but thinner than 22 gage sheet stock. It folds real easy.

This one is nice:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/YT0029-wind-deflector-10-Panel-Portable-Camping-Gas-Stove-Camp-Cooker-Wind-Guard-/141479575182?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

Dan - great contribution to the thread. My daughter sews and she made me some very inexpensive Rok strap knock-offs (like $2.00 for everything). Work the same.

I like your wind block as well. I can't stand up in my tent, and like you indicate, it does make it challenging to get dressed. I usually just step out and hope for the best.

rushes said:

I've tried to find the perfect material for a wind blocker without much success.What did he use?

Click to expand...

You could probably cut quite a few of those from a roll of roof-flashing.

Twigg said:

rushes said:

I've tried to find the perfect material for a wind blocker without much success.What did he use?

Click to expand...

You could probably cut quite a few of those from a roll of roof-flashing.

Click to expand...

It looks like something thinner with something sandwiched in the middle. Notice the folded edge on the right bottom. It looks kina soft.

I'm not a camper, but I do enjoy a cup of coffee while mountain biking. I need something that can get beat all to heck in my small backpack.

Great write up list and additions.

I concur on the sleeping bag liner.

I carry a small hand pump for the air mattress. It came with my exercise ball (my back isn't the greatest). It has been used to stoke troublesome fires as well. It fits nicely inside the sleeping bag and when compressed doesn't detract from the compression of the sleeping bag.

If time allows, a future post with pictures will show up.

When it comes to camping, I'm like this guy:



My favorite camping items to add to your list. Pricey but each represents something you buy/cry once:

1. Kermit chair. Without starting another chair thread, I'm totally sold on this chair. Xtra wide version, plus optional legs and beer holder.

2. Sleeping pad: Exped Synmat 12 LXW. Super comfy, way thicker than your average pad, and folds up tight.

3. Jetboil. When you want a hot cup of coffee and you want it in three minutes. Usually I bring a bunch of Starbucks Via instant coffee packs, italian roast. Beats having to carry a coffee press.

4. MSR Whisperlite Universal camp stove. Uses all sorts of fuel types, including the same fuel cannisters for jetboils, or even unleaded for when you run out (you need an msr fuel bottle, which I keep handy for offroad trips for spare fuel).

4. Snow Peak Titanium cookware and coffee mug. And Spork

5. Black Diamond LED camp lantern.

6. A proper torch-style three burner wind proof butane lighter.

For tents, tarps, and sleeping bags, I shop the REI outlet or their member sales. Good bargains abound. Buy the fitted footprint tarp, unless you like moist tent floors.

For starting campfires, I'm told that a cheap firestarter trick is to melt vaseline in a non-stick pan, then drop in and coat cotton balls, and let them cool, and store in a zip lock.

Here's the KTM loaded up. You see an older REI sleeping pad on back, whereas the Exped is the size of the smaller REI tent bag (also visible on right). Yellow bag was a kayak dry bag I stuffed clothing into.





Campsite in the Olympics, kermit chair visible. I agree about the public campsites, unless you are out in the boonies and simply find an available clearing, in which case, you might consider packing light (tweakers hiding in the woods are optional).

Hudson - I have to agree on the Kermit Chair.

Most people see the price and wonder. Well, I just have to say sit in one! I don't mind roughing it, but I do like having a decent place to sit. The Kermit chair is perfect.

Funny story about the Kermit chair. I ordered one online one day. About 5 minutes later the phone in my office rings. It's the owner of the Kermit chair company. He recognized the shipping address. He was a customer of my employer when he was in another business. We talked about the business for a few minutes. Nice guy. He is a rider.

Hudson - you have a much better camping budget than I do - you got some good stuff.

Honestly, I've sat in a Kermit chair next to my REI special and I have to say it is no more comfortable, and it doesn't pack any lighter or smaller. I will likely last longer, but for that price, it should come with a set of dancing girls that freshen your cocktail and wash your dishes automatically. I picked up my REI chair on sale, had a 20% off coupon on top of that, and still balked at the $40.00 price.

You say cheap, I say frugal....

To be honest I can't compare Pants. Never sat in a REI chair. I do however have an REI Half Dome 2+ tent. It's an outstanding piece of equipment. So I know they put their name on good stuff.

I did go back and shake the bag my Kermit chair stores in, no dancing girls.