Clutch Lever - Might be a dumb question.

blassoff · Oct 8, 2015

So I bought a Gen2 with Pazzo racing levers. I've flushed the brakes and clutch (actually flushed the clutch twice).

Here's the problem. With the adjuster all the way out on the lever (lever furthest away from the grip) The clutch engages just fine. Pressure is good, no slip, and the clutch engages about 1/3 of the way out.

If I move the adjuster (so that the lever is closer to the grip), the clutch engages sooner, to the extent that if I move the adjuster all the way in I cannot disengage the clutch.

See this doesn't make sense to me. The adjuster should have minimal effect on the engagement point. But clearly it does because the less pull I have on the lever, the less throw-out I get on the clutch.

I haven't had a chance to take the lever apart, but I will this weekend. It's probably a simple adjustment, but looking at the exploded parts list I don't see anything to adjust.

What am I missing here? I've already changed the fork oil, bleed the brake and clutch lines, changed and balanced tires, but until I rip into the lever, the engagement point has me stumped. It's hydraulic, what's to adjust?

Thanks....Baz

Bokerfork · Oct 8, 2015

Simple physics. You are not pushing as much fluid trough the lines when it is closer to you, therefore the clutch plates don't move as far.

blassoff · Oct 8, 2015

Boker, I feel like there has to be more to it. The lever should be compensated for the adjustments. And.....I've owned three FJR's, the 06 is the only one with which I've experienced this problem. It's gotta be more than a simple 1 to 1 relationship. But I do notice that this lever isn't compensated for pull. That's why I think there's an adjustment somewhere.

So I just checked movement on my 2014. Moving from one to five on the lever adjuster moves the lever about 3/4" closer to the grip, but the difference in actual motion of the plunger is perhaps an 1/8 of an inch.

The Pazzo lever seems to move differently. Moving from one to five on the adjuster is really like a 1 to 1 relationship. Maybe it's 2 to 1, but its certainly different then what I experience with the stock levers.

Hmmmm.

SLK50 · Oct 8, 2015

Your levers seem to be working correctly.

I have to keep mine on "1" or my clutch

won't disengage.

Redfish Hunter · Oct 8, 2015

Suddenly my cheap Chinese levers look better. I will go check but I did not notice anything like that with my '15 and my levers from The2wheels.

blassoff · Oct 8, 2015

SLK50 said:
Your levers seem to be working correctly.I have to keep mine on "1" or my clutch

won't disengage.

Ya know...I could move the adjusters on my 05 without any engagement/disengagement problems. Maybe it's endemic to the 2006 (or the pazzo's) weird...

blassoff · Oct 8, 2015

Redfish Hunter said:
Suddenly my cheap Chinese levers look better. I will go check but I did not notice anything like that with my '15 and my levers from The2wheels.

Hey Red:

$50 a set, damn that's cheap. Too bad the longer sets are all sold out. Nice deal though..

escapefjrtist · Oct 8, 2015

I keep my ~~cheap~~ frugal Chinese levers adjusted at the mid-point...haven't tried them at the extremes. Bokerfork nailed it, less fluid movement in the master equals less travel on the slave.

--G

SLK50 · Oct 9, 2015

Keep in mind the adjustment is for reach ( hand size ) and

not for engagement.

The adjustment has no effect on actuation, at least up to the

point where the lever contacts the grip.

Fred W · Oct 9, 2015

@blassoff - Here's the dealio:

To disengage the clutch you need to move the slave cylinder's piston X amount of distance, which pushes indirectly through the push rod on the spring loaded clutch cover (pressure plate). And that means you need to move the master cylinder "Y" amount of distance to do that because they are hydraulically linked.

Whatever type of lever you install, or how it is adjusted, that will mean that the lever needs to pivot "Z" degrees to generate Y movement of the master. If the levers are adjusted so that the distance from the resting position to bars is less than produces Z you will not be able to disengage the clutch.

The only way to get the clutch to disengage with less lever travel is to modify the master or slave cylinder sizes (make master larger or slave smaller) so the ratio of X to Y is greater, but that will also result in increased effort at the lever, which most folks wouldn't like.

There is no free lunch here.

wfooshee · Oct 10, 2015

^^^^^ Once again, he speaks the truth.

The adjustment of the lever has absolutely no effect on the actual mechanical or hydraulic operation of the clutch, it merely changes the start point of the lever's throw. If the start point is too close to the handlebar and it touches the bar before disengaging the clutch, then you have no choice but to move it out a bit to give it room for the full throw.

If the lever doesn't touch the bar but something else stops it, then that something else needs to be identified. Maybe something's not right in the pivot and binds up in there somehow. But I'd bet a month's pay (about 32 dollars) that you've reduced the motion of the lever when you bring it close to the bar, which reduces he motion of the slave cylinder.

D2FLY · Jan 12, 2016

I have found that if the clutch lever bushing starts to wear that the clutch will engage sooner in closer to the handlebar. Replacing The old clutch lever with a brand new OEM Clutch lever which has a brand new bushing, normal clutch operation and engagement point was restored. Has anyone else experienced this? Is anyone making bushings to replace the worn out lever bushing?

wfooshee · Jan 12, 2016

No idea what you're talking about.

(The plunger piece had actually pushed through the ring on the lever! That severely limited the action at the slave cylinder....)

FJRPittsburgh · Jan 12, 2016

What is this clutch thing you speak of?

RaYzerman19 · Jan 12, 2016

In addition to what Fred said, a GenI and GenIII use the same/similar diameter slave, more lever travel required to disengage clutch. The GenII slave has a smaller diameter slave, less lever travel but have higher effort. That may explain why you feel differences between Gens. On the '07, I swapped out my GenII slave for a GenI, with Pazzos, for less effort. I will move the Pazzos over to the 2014.

Ditto on what D2 and Wfooshee report, even a bushing worn less than shown will affect it somewhat.

bluesdog · Jan 13, 2016

That darn bushing is one of the areas which should be regularly cleaned and lubed, as it is somewhat exposed and prone to collecting dirt - leading to premature wear. FSM recommends every 6 months, but that may be insufficient depending on environment.

Donal · Jan 13, 2016

RaYzerman19 said:
In addition to what Fred said, a GenI and GenIII use the same/similar diameter slave, more lever travel required to disengage clutch. The GenII slave has a smaller diameter slave, less lever travel but have higher effort. That may explain why you feel differences between Gens. On the '07, I swapped out my GenII slave for a GenI, with Pazzos, for less effort. I will move the Pazzos over to the 2014.
Ditto on what D2 and Wfooshee report, even a bushing worn less than shown will affect it somewhat.

That was "corrected" from 2009 on, when MamaYama went back to using what worked on the Gen 1.................

Fred W · Jan 13, 2016

That was "corrected" from 2009 on, when MamaYama went back to using what worked on the Gen 1.................

That was also the point in time when they decided to quit making an auto clutch version.

Coincidence?

Bill Lumberg · Jan 13, 2016

Good point bluesdog. When I cleaned mine recently, I found that plenty of lube was in place. This reinforced my meticulous lubing of these points at each oil change. Unfortunately, I also found copious amounts of mung and grit in the works. I need to disassemble a little more often.

Clutch Lever - Might be a dumb question.

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