Is the ES suspension upgrade worth going from a 2013 to a 2015?

montanaman · Oct 30, 2015

I've had my 2013 for 18000 great miles. I got a good price on it used a year ago. Love the bike. I might be able to lay my hands on a 2015 ES for about 2500 buck more after I sell my '13. Other than the cruise control being deeper and the obvious benefit of an almost new bike ( 8k miles) is the ES suspension that much better? Anyone own both to really compare? I am not a heavy rider and rarely ride two up. I do ride the twisty's aggressively when I get to them. I had a Mutistrada with the adjustable suspension and I did use it all the time switching on the fly when the road conditions changed. I know you can only adjust the front end on the fly and others complain that there is no compression damping adjustment on the ES and there actually is ( manual of course) on the 2013.

The last question is has there been any reported issues with the additional electronics. The reason I got an FJR is the relative simplicity and low service needs.

Thanks for any opinions and info

SkooterG · Oct 30, 2015

I definitely think it is worth it. The only case where I wouldn't recommend it is if you are a suspension fanatic who wants something very specific out of your suspension and your willing to pay upwards of $1500+ to get a custom suspension and spend the time to dial it in correctly. But if you do that, you are generally getting max performance out of the suspension at the cost of comfort.

The ES is for the rest of the 95% of us. You don't get the best of any area, be it comfort or performance, but you to have an 80% level of both those that is easily selected on the fly. I've spent a fair amount of time on different Gen IIIs and these are my opinions:

The ES is definitely better than the non-ES suspension in stock form. Choice (as in on the fly suspension adjustments) is a wonderful thing.

I still prefer the ES to an aftermarket suspension on a '13 I have. The '13 with Traxxion up front and Penske in the rear is pretty damned awesome, but I still prefer the options and easy, on the fly adjustment of the ES. Plus those inverted forks just look damned sexy!

Reliability is still an unknown as these ES FJRs are still quite new. Hoping Yammie's reputation for reliability holds up. I would highly recommend purchasing the 4 years of Y.E.S. extended warranty for $390. Cheap peace of mind.

ionbeam · Oct 30, 2015

One part of your post I can answer. Nobody can answer if an ES is worth it but you.

I like the electronic suspension. Going down the dirt road into Bodie CA it was a blessing to switch the suspension to take the bite out of the rippled rocky road. While making time across the open spaces of the south west I liked to change the suspension to the mile-eater mode. When crossing the mountains at >10k feet the roads were major weather beaten so once again I changed the suspension. Going along all the twisty roads in CA I liked to be able to switch from tour to sport and back as the roads changed. Here in New England our weather beaten roads often call for dirt bike like suspension but some roads also ask for sport or mile-eater modes. ES works for me and is highly desirable.

I'm sure that some people see the ES as unnecessary extra complexity and expensive with no up side. Some wouldn't use the electronic suspension if it came standard on the bike. I didn't mind the auto-retract windshield on my Gen I because I move it around all the time, others loathed the auto-retract and disabled it as soon as they could. It's personal choices. You have to figure it out for your self if you want the ES or not. We won't think less of you if you don't want the ES. We will just laugh at you behind your back

Seriously, have you ridden into Sedona on 89A from the Flagstaff end? And then, ride out of Prescott on 89 only to be faced with the oven ride from there through Wickenburg on the way back to Phoenix? Being able to adjust the suspension -- priceless (to us).

MCRIDER007 · Oct 30, 2015

I have both (14K on ES, 17K on 13A) and think you may be overlooking the benefits of the inverted fork on the ES which improves both the handling and ride anytime you are stressing the frame (high speeds, sweeping corners, and cross winds). As for the suspension itself, I think the forks are a push, completely different designs but seem to have the same result. I think the ES shock has a little better damping than the 13' but the damping adjustment on the fly seems like a marketing gimmik because the range of adjustment is very narrow and I probably couldn't tell the difference in a blind test. I change the settings all the time but Normal +0 seems to always be the best damping for any stretch of road. I should also add that while I may sometimes detect a slight change, that change is always felt in the shock, the forks never seem to change.

I am well aware that I am in the minority regarding the damping adjustments but this summer I had the opportunity to have a long time track instructor ride my ES on a 250 mile ride. He has a C14 with a Ohlins shock and ZX-14 forks and was extremely impressed with the ES but he said he could not detect any noticable damping difference between Soft, Normal, and Hard. Maybe my bike is different from the rest, its the only ES model I have ridden.

Is the ES worth spending another $2500? I'll give you an answer once I find out how expensive its going to be to rebuild the shock, in the meantime I am really enjoying the ES and the inverted fork.

montanaman · Oct 30, 2015

ionbeam said:
One part of your post I can answer. Nobody can answer if an ES is worth it but you.
I like the electronic suspension. Going down the dirt road into Bodie CA it was a blessing to switch the suspension to take the bite out of the rippled rocky road. While making time across the open spaces of the south west I liked to change the suspension to the mile-eater mode. When crossing the mountains at >10k feet the roads were major weather beaten so once again I changed the suspension. Going along all the twisty roads in CA I liked to be able to switch from tour to sport and back as the roads changed. Here in New England our weather beaten roads often call for dirt bike like suspension but some roads also ask for sport or mile-eater modes. ES works for me and is highly desirable.

I'm sure that some people see the ES as unnecessary extra complexity and expensive with no up side. Some wouldn't use the electronic suspension if it came standard on the bike. I didn't mind the auto-retract windshield on my Gen I because I move it around all the time, others loathed the auto-retract and disabled it as soon as they could. It's personal choices. You have to figure it out for your self if you want the ES or not. We won't think less of you if you don't want the ES. We will just laugh at you behind your back

Seriously, have you ridden into Sedona on 89A from the Flagstaff end? And then, ride out of Prescott on 89 only to be faced with the oven ride from there through Wickenburg on the way back to Phoenix? Being able to adjust the suspension -- priceless (to us).

Thanks for such a thorough answer... Funny you mentioned 89 and Wickenburg, Prescott. I've done all of those rides and roads countless times. I live in the Phoenix area and just yesterday rode to Wickenburg, up the Yarnell grade and the 20 miles of excellent twisty bits up into Prescott. I was with a riding buddy who has a 2014 ES. He is a very good ( and fast) rider and he leaves his suspension on full hard settings, two up with bags and never touches it (and he's not a big guy). He likes the full stiffness of that set up. He believes it makes the bike track through the corners perfectly. He's also coming off a Multistrada ( still has it and it now sits in his garage lol) he likes the FJR that much better. We switched bikes for a bit but not long enough for me to feel much difference. I did change the front end to "soft" for awhile but again tough to say as the road was very smooth at that point. The rear can only be changed at a stop and I didn't want to change everything on his bike. I will say I did keep up with him on 89 but I am guessing that I had to work a bit harder with my bike.

I know the suspension components are better and I would probably have to rebuild the 2013 suspension at some point down the line. In addition to getting the ES suspension I would be getting a 2 year newer bike so potential better resale down the road. I really don't like the hassle of buying and selling bikes anymore and I really want either version to be the one I ride for many miles.

The only other wild card is what the 2016 is going to be. I hear there may be some changes but not a whole new version. That said it will probably be enough to knock prices back a notch

SkooterG · Oct 30, 2015

FYI: You are not quite correct on how the ES FJR's suspension works.

Damping is changed front and rear and can be done on the fly. Options are Soft, Standard, Hard. As I said, these changes are both to the forks and shock.

Preload is only changed to the shock and can only be done with the bike running and not moving. Settings are one rider, rider + luggage, two riders, two riders + luggage.

rjrettig · Oct 30, 2015

I have a 14ES (16k, previous was an 06). I wasn't sure how much I would use the adjustability of the suspension when I bought the ES but quickly found out how nice it is! I make changes between commuting, hitting the twisties, and track days. I love how easy it is - and you can really feel the difference.

kebo123 · Oct 30, 2015

Old Guy · Oct 30, 2015

SkooterG said:
I definitely think it is worth it. The only case where I wouldn't recommend it is if you are a suspension fanatic who wants something very specific out of your suspension and your willing to pay upwards of $1500+ to get a custom suspension and spend the time to dial it in correctly. But if you do that, you are generally getting max performance out of the suspension at the cost of comfort.
The ES is for the rest of the 95% of us. You don't get the best of any area, be it comfort or performance, but you to have an 80% level of both those that is easily selected on the fly. I've spent a fair amount of time on different Gen IIIs and these are my opinions:

The ES is definitely better than the non-ES suspension in stock form. Choice (as in on the fly suspension adjustments) is a wonderful thing.

I still prefer the ES to an aftermarket suspension on a '13 I have. The '13 with Traxxion up front and Penske in the rear is pretty damned awesome, but I still prefer the options and easy, on the fly adjustment of the ES. Plus those inverted forks just look damned sexy!

Reliability is still an unknown as these ES FJRs are still quite new. Hoping Yammie's reputation for reliability holds up. I would highly recommend purchasing the 4 years of Y.E.S. extended warranty for $390. Cheap peace of mind.

Considering the $1500+ you mentioned, how much would it cost between the depreciated value of the '13 and the new '15? I have thought I could spend some $$$ on suspension on my '13 and be just about as well off. I wouldn't have the sexy USD forks but with the cash available I should be able to do well. At least for me, the easy adjustments are not an issue. I never ride double, and once I've got one set, I pretty much leave it alone.

El Toro · Oct 30, 2015

I had electronically adjustable suspension on several BMW sport and touring bikes, including K1300S and K1600 GTL models.

Before I had it, it seemed like something that would be a waste of money. I was not very interested in it.

However, after I'd tried it, I really saw value in it.

I used to run the K1300S on a very twisty, sporty 60 mile run which ended up at a convenient spot to hop on I-40 and ride home.

I would set it on a sport setting for the ride out, and then I would switch it to comfort mode for the return trip on the interstate, and it brought great joy.

It was certainly not something that would be necessary to enjoy a motorcycle ride, but once you have it, you realize just how nice a feature it can be.

If I could figure out how to get an FJR with the AS feature, cruise control, and ES, all here in the US, I'd buy one tomorrow. It would be the ultimate bike for my purposes.

RaYzerman19 · Oct 30, 2015

Just send me your POS '13A and get the ES!! The guys have expressed it pretty well, and I think it's partly a mental perception of whether you want it or really need it. If you lived in the NE, then yep. The forks will be rebuildable, electronics likely quite reliable, but one day not too soon the rear shock is going to need a rebuild or replacement...... put 2500 big pennies in the piggy bank over the next 3 or 4 years and it's covered. I don't think we've identified a rebuilder yet.

Send me your POS '13.

montanaman · Oct 30, 2015

RaYzerman19 said:
Just send me your POS '13A and get the ES!! The guys have expressed it pretty well, and I think it's partly a mental perception of whether you want it or really need it. If you lived in the NE, then yep. The forks will be rebuildable, electronics likely quite reliable, but one day not too soon the rear shock is going to need a rebuild or replacement...... put 2500 big pennies in the piggy bank over the next 3 or 4 years and it's covered. I don't think we've identified a rebuilder yet.Send me your POS '13.

Funny. So your talking $2500 to rebuild and repair the ES suspension in 4 years, or to upgrade and replace the 2013 suspension??. I'll have a YES warranty on the ES for 4 years so I'll take my chances there as it will be covered. A friend has a 2014 ES and in a rare Yamaha moment the rear suspension failed and the little cylinder back there started leaking. He got the whole rear unit replaced under the YES warranty. Cost to Yamaha was somewhere north of 3k for parts and labor. So far according to them this was the first issue ever reported. In fact Yamaha NA wanted to see the faulty parts so they could figure out what happened. They "had not had one problem so far".

Love my 2013. Bought it right a year ago and now I have the opportunity to buy a 2015 ES and not increase my over all exposure that much. I was simply trying to find out if people felt that the new suspension was that much better. As others have said here.. You can easily spend over 3k to get the best set up on a 2013 and I know someone who did just that. ( Wiburs or Penske I think, maybe Ohlins) I'm not that good a rider. I'd rather be able to loosen things up on a crappy road and button her down when things get interesting.

Lets go Red Wings !!

rushes · Oct 30, 2015

I'd wait until the 2016 comes out before doing anything.

montanaman · Oct 30, 2015

rushes said:
I'd wait until the 2016 comes out before doing anything.

Good advice but that bike will be a full list deal at 17k plus I am guessing. Of course whatever they release will lower current values as well.

I'm in a bit of a quandary because I think I have my 2013 sold and the 2015 offer is for a "limited time".. hmm. I wish they would just announce already..

rushes · Oct 30, 2015

Money CAN buy happiness.. Jus sayin...

RaYzerman19 · Oct 30, 2015

I was just referring to the cost of an ES rear shock if it had to be replaced....... one could get an aftermarket rear for an A model for north of a grand. Shouldn't need to upgrade the front forks as Mama Yama already did that. The hard core riders will want something different.

I think you should go with your gut....... I'm OK with a '13A, which is an upgraded suspension on both ends from Gen 2. I'd probably end up with an aftermarket rear shock eventually, but with all the money I'd save over an ES, I could have a nice custom colour paint job (if I didn't like the stone gray/green, but I actually don't mind it so much either).

Redfish Hunter · Oct 30, 2015

Yes, it is worth the extra money. For me anyway, but not for everyone.

The ability to scroll through a menu and make an enormous change in how my bike rides and performs makes me extremely happy. The fact that I have more available lean angle than the A model makes me extremely happy. The fact that the blacked out, inverted forks look really good against the Liquid Graphite paint makes me extremely happy. It was easily worth the extra $1K difference from the A model. For me. Maybe not for everyone.

It is worth noting that the Gen3 rear shock is a HUGE upgrade over the Gen2 rear shock. Pop is over the top happy with that little upgrade and the A model actually rides a bit smoother than the ES. But changing the handling and ride with a few button pushes is... Frankly I am ashamed that I am so spoiled.

escapefjrtist · Oct 30, 2015

I had a similar decision to make a few months ago.

Already had GP forks and Penske shock on the '09 and absolutely loved the set up. Along comes a good deal on a slightly used '15A and the decision was made. I transferred all the good parts from the '09 to the '15A and the rest is, shall we say, history.

For ME the decision was easy, however if I hadn't had all the good suspension pieces it would have been a '15ES. Love those sexy USD forks!

Good luck!

--G

AlleyCat · Oct 30, 2015

I changed a perfectly running 2009 for a 2014 ES just for the ES (and the cruise control).... But the ES made up my mind 90% of the way. I wanted the easy adjustments for 2up, sport riding (hard) etc. Worth every penny to me. I have had my bike for a little more than a year and no issues what-so-ever. Just so practical to just hit the MENU button and make the changes.

Is the ES suspension upgrade worth going from a 2013 to a 2015?

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