Split: Sena Use

So, these Sena devices actually W.O.R.K. for you guys by providing some sort of electronic communication? So far, my SMH10R has been useful for:

investing otherwise useful time installing them in helmets,

wasting time reading and rereading instructions,

wasting a butt-load of time trying to do a firmware upgrade with no success (will not recognize)

wasting even more time trying to get one of the two to give me a blue light

AND

the promised fun of wasting countless more hours trying to pair the MF-ers with anything (probably months in the future).

BUTT WAIT ----

at least I'll be sporting a couple useless Sena bumps on both helmets. As for actual communication purposes, I'm back to opening face shields and shouting at stops and hand signals. That was cheaper to do without these bluetooth turds.

F#&K, I hate constantly changing technology, what it costs and the immense amount of time it takes to get something to actually work !!!!!!!!!!

Maybe it's not the Senas?

I'm not at all skilled in techy gadgets but I got mine to

accept calls, get directions from my gps, communicate

with my passenger AND another bike and play music

downloaded onto my phone.

All by reading the manual. Yea me!

exskibum said:

So, these Sena devices actually W.O.R.K. for you guys by providing some sort of electronic communication? So far, my SMH10R has been useful for:
investing otherwise useful time installing them in helmets,

wasting time reading and rereading instructions,

wasting a butt-load of time trying to do a firmware upgrade with no success (will not recognize)

wasting even more time trying to get one of the two to give me a blue light

AND

the promised fun of wasting countless more hours trying to pair the MF-ers with anything (probably months in the future).

BUTT WAIT ----

at least I'll be sporting a couple useless Sena bumps on both helmets. As for actual communication purposes, I'm back to opening face shields and shouting at stops and hand signals. That was cheaper to do without these bluetooth turds.

F#&K, I hate constantly changing technology, what it costs and the immense amount of time it takes to get something to actually work !!!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

Is it just me, or does that sound like a grumpy old man? For what it's worth, Sena manuals are about the most worthless things ever published. Not sure I can help, but PM me if you want to try.

I'm getting a trouble shooting e-mail from Sena's Tech support, per our telecon, that I will deal with next week. One possibility is a single faulty battery (the helmet that will not power on). But it is unknown why neither can be recognized by Sena's online Bluetooth Device Manager. Another is the inexplicable manner in which one unit's battery charge LED does and does not go on or off (the other seems not to have this problem). And yes, we tried the paper clip fault reset, too.

The manual? Jeeze, do they need someone to edit it for clarity and completeness in some parts of the instructions (the intuitive "must mean" guess isn't working for some of my units' problems, as became clearer in the telecon with support staff). After having read the online-only manual (and the relevant parts another 4 or 5 times), I don't find my problems addressed. I have also watched a couple YouTube videos that seem to breeze through the operation and firmware upgrade process without anything like the problems I've encountered. It could still be me or my MacBook Air, but I'm at my wit's end with all the time thus far wasted (instead of prepping the bike for YFO)!

It is good to know that some people can actually use their devices. My GF will be knocking 3 and 4 times on my helmet and we will shout at one another through open face shields this weekend. Or be so frustrated that we just sit by the pool instead of riding.

I have SMH-10's and 20S units and both work well. The only issue I have ever had with pairing is connecting my 20S to a first gen SMH-10. We eventually got it working but I couldn't initiate the connection while riding, he had to make the connection. It's amazing how much those things add to the ride - when they don't work it is very frustrating.

If you watch the motorcyclist magazine videos on UTube, they use the 20S units on every video and record the sound off of them.

Edit: Removed Sena support suggestion since exskibum said he did it already.

I am further thinking that one battery (in my headset) is defective. Charged it (again) until the red light (tiny battery charge indicator LED) went off. According to the User's Guide, the red indicator LED comes on when it is charging, which it does for the pillion headset, and like the guide says, for that headset, the indicator LED turns blue when it is charged. My headset does neither the blue nor the red automatically. Instead, with NO mention I can find in the User Guide (nor did tech help recognize this), the only way to get that red indicator to go on in my headset is to hold down the + and - at the same time after I plug it in. Later, that light simply goes off. So is it charging if the light doesn't light? Does it fully charge by the time the light just goes off (instead of turning blue)?

The new clue is that as soon as the red indicator went off, I was able to power up my headset and get a blue crescent shaped indicator to light. Maybe ten seconds later, before I could check transmission against the other helmet's headset, the lights were off and it was dead again. If I can find the time tonight, I'll swap battery packs and see if my headset works and pillion headset does not.

None of this addresses the inability even to get the working headset to be recognized by Sena's Bluetooth Device Manager. I'll try deleting the B.D.M. off my computer and redo the download and install when I get a chance. Then I'll try to get BDM recognition of a headset for the thirteenth time. Did I say I hate F'ing electronic shit and the amount of wasted time required to get it working before they then become obsolete and are discarded?

Uncle Hud, you know of what you speak when it comes to Sena's User Guide (manual). Unfortunately, that shoddiness seems too common in the industry with consumer tech items. Ambiguous, incomplete, words left out or included in a poorly executed edit, and just generally sloppy. Fergawdssake, hire someone to read it with a new consumer's mindset and do a final edit. And it's always online only! We never get paper, except for the 9 different language versions of the simplistic introduction of how to take the MFing unit out of the box.

There, I feel better now. [/old man codger rant]

Wait till the first Sena equipped YFO group tries pairing up for their Friday morning ride. We'll be sitting around in front of the motel with our helmets on saying "can you hear me now" over and over while lights are flashing, beeps are beeping and the frustration level rising. We'll be lucky if someone's helmet and Sena don't get bounced off the pavement in a fit of pique. That said, when they work, they work great and the experience of the group all able to talk and share is magnificent.

Dang, John. You're confirming my worst fears there. At least in the days of Starcom and Autocom, the bike to bike issue was settled when we agreed to set our GMRS radios on the same channel and hoped everyone's radio called in the same frequencies. And before that, hand signals -- at least they were cheap and didn't end up in the landfills.

exskibum said:

I am further thinking that one battery (in my headset) is defective. Charged it (again) until the red light (tiny battery charge indicator LED) went off. According to the User's Guide, the red indicator LED comes on when it is charging, which it does for the pillion headset, and like the guide says, for that headset, the indicator LED turns blue when it is charged. My headset does neither the blue nor the red automatically. Instead, with NO mention I can find in the User Guide (nor did tech help recognize this), the only way to get that red indicator to go on in my headset is to hold down the + and - at the same time after I plug it in. Later, that light simply goes off. So is it charging if the light doesn't light? Does it fully charge by the time the light just goes off (instead of turning blue)?

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Rich,

I feel your pain -- really !!

WORSE thing I ever did today was upgrade the firmware

I went from 2 fully functioning units (Sena SMH10D) to :_

One functioning

ONE COMPLETELY DEAD !!

Charges up OK but will NOT power on.

Total time talking to Sena help desk was 75 minutes, (includes talk time and hold time in-between) during which time they had me :-

1) Reset for 6 seconds (paper clip in hole)-- numerous times

2) Reset in 1 second intervals for 3 times - numerous times

3) Delete and re-install Device manager - twice

Install Device Manager on a second computer

Device NOT recognized and won't power on after all this.

They finally took my info (name, etc) and will submit it to Warrantee Dept for a possible new unit. HOWEVER -- they have a backlog of such requests and cannot promise me a new unit in time for our trip which starts June 14th

I'm f**ckin' pissed right now.

Adding insult to injury, I was told I "should not have done the firmware upgrade if my units worked fine to begin with"

Add my rant to Rich Rant #1

I've been using the SENA 20's for two seasons now and they have performed absolutely perfect. Even after several F/W updates I have had no problems at all.

Dang, Rog!! I feel YOUR pain, what with your cross country trip on tap and that underlined passage about not updating a working unit. WTF!?!

Sinking feeling here. Teri bought me the SMH10R for Christmas and this is her first meet, her second trip to Yosemite (1st not in winter), first overnight on the bike, etc. I really, really wanted this to work for her and give her the best first glimpse of mc touring. I also sprung for a SM10 (to allow bluetooth radar detector and iPod connectivity) and a new GPS (595LM), but have no way of hearing any of that expensive shit now. But at least my disappointment is, for now, just a long weekend's usage.

Yeah, Sena!

Viper Pilot said:

I've been using the SENA 20's for two seasons now and they have performed absolutely perfect. Even after several F/W updates I have had no problems at all.

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Glad to hear it. In 2009, I installed a StarCom wired to a Garmin 2720 GPS, Passport RD, Kenwood GMRS radio, an iPod, master volume and both pillion and rider headsets. Except for the headset wiring in the riders helmet periodically needing replacement from the pigtails taking wind abuse, the whole system worked really well until I began having trouble finding replacement rider headsets a couple years ago (and the maps for the 2720 got long in the tooth). Any chance these Senas will go that long?

I bought my SMH10's in 2012 - they still work. One started to lose it's battery life, so I bought the 20S to replace it. It is really still a serviceable unit but the new cooler unit came along. With the new stuff, planned obsolescence gets you before the device wears out.

Don't get me started on the Sena Tube camera though. What a POS that thing is. Great idea, poor execution.

The complexity and all the opportunities for things to go wrong, plus the potential distraction of reaching by feel (with gloves on) for the microswitch buttons on the outside of the helmet gives me pause, and that is before the cost, pairing issues, set-up issues and rapid obsolescence are considered. That said:

The Sena bluetooth intercom does seem like a decent rider-passenger arrangement. But I actually thought StarCom was close to having a great system. Mostly, they needed a bluetooth link to the helmets, though. Yeah, I know: they introduced one as a separate module, but you needed two (for rider and pillion) and the cost was astronomical for that. And without that feature for the helmet link, they died off soon after. But my wired StarCom, . . .

integrated into the system a push to talk GMRS radio and a master system volume dial on the bars. The push to talk was seamless and the master volume was the bomb -- pull up to a customs station or a LEO roadblock or to a toll booth, and all I had to do was twist one easy to use and find dial counterclockwise. Presto: NO music, radio chatter, pillion communication. Using an iPod in the top of tank bag, it was easy to click it to pause when all I wanted was the music to stop. Simple, safe, integrated, easy to use and reliable. The only real problem was the dang wired headsets - flimsy, noisy and wiring tangled. A good stereo bluetooth interface from the wired system to the helmets woulda been the cat's a$$. Alas, tech took another direction with all bluetooth.

Except where there is a particularly compelling reason to go with the complexity and problems of advanced electronics, I'd take mechanical process over electronic every time, and as here, I'd take wired over bluetooth for most of the system. Luddite codger here, wondering how the years passed so quickly, when tuning my 67 Mustang was easy as rolling out of bed . . . without all the diagnostics and computers. Sigh!

I'm running the 10U which is integrated into my helmet. I'm a tech guy, been around computers since they came out. I'm the person everyone calls when they have problems with anything electronic. My Sena has the handlebar remote. I'd charge everything and be riding along and hear "Remote disconnected" and in a few minutes it would say "Remote connected", then the helmet side of things would freeze completely. Can'y talk, can't do anything. The blue light was on, meaning it was locked up. I'd have to put the paper clip in the hole and reset the system or it would just drain the battery to zero.

Synching up with random ride buddies was a disaster. Then I figured it out. The ride buddies systems had maxed out on the number of connections. While it looked like we were stupid, trying to connect for 15 minutes every time we stopped to try and connect, it just wasn't going to happen. Not Sena's fault, but very frustrating. The lower end units will only connect to a few people.

I finally called Sena and started a warranty claim on mine and when the new one arrived, it seemed to fix a lot of the issues. However, I tried to update the firmware and it would NOT connect to my computer. It wouldn't see it. I tried for over an hour. Nothing. Then I just clicked on something like "next", even though it wasn't seeing my system and the next step saw it and updated the firmware. From a troubleshooting standpoint, their instructions just suck. For my system, they say something like "hold the (-) sign for 5 seconds". Well, that didn't do anything. Clicking "next" made it all come to life.

One of my frustrations with companies like this is that it's like they have never tested the process on various setups before writing the instructions. Clearly, I can replicate my issue, and clearly from other people's experiences, I'm not the only one with issues, yet they never fix their instructions or change the way it works to make it seamless. Had I not just clicked on "next", then my system never would have gotten any updates.

I have a buddy with a 10R and he asked me to update his firmware. I went to his house, used his brand new computer, and never could get it to connect to his device.

I have also repeatedly asked Sena via phone, email, and in person at a trade show if you could daisy chain together riders, so taking something like a 10R which will only support 3 connections and hook up to a larger group. I have repeatedly been told that you cannot do that. Yet I have posted the question on forums and people tell me they do it all the time, yet no one ever documents the exact procedure to do it.

At this point, mine works and it works well. I have one riding buddy that has his dialed in too. We can connect up in seconds and ride on. However, it's been a frustrating journey. Having said all of that, I can't see anything better out there at the moment, other than CB systems.

Interesting that so many have had issues. I'm currently using a 20S and have a 5FM on my wife's helmet. Both have worked and upgraded flawlessly.

BigOgre said:

^ Thanks for that heads-up VP.

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Ditto to Viper and Pieman whom started this...

FYI my first 20S set were a POS, low battery levels, units would shut off with no notice, I about shoved the paper clip thru the dang thing. Turns out I had bought some old stock that had been sitting on the shelf too long coupled with old firmware. Based on serial numbers SENA replaced both of them and we have had nothing but luck with them except once riding in a complete monsoon for hours at 80+ water got in mine and really made it start glitching - "say a command" over and over and over and my Mom would have been embarrassed to hear the commands I was barking at it! I thoroughly dried it out and it has worked since. Knocking on wood now...

Haven't sprung for a comm system yet, but some of this stuff isn't really surprising to me as an IT guy. Bluetooth was supposed to be simple, and some people have made it work really well. My wife's iPhone pairs so well with her Toyota that she was sitting in the house when I drove up one day and the car took over the call she was on.

Instructions can be ridiculous, and frankly, so can the pairing process they're supposed to describe. We have an voice audio amp system we use at work, and it took three people over a month of trying to figure out how to pair a replacement mike until they called me, and I couldn't muddle through the mess until everyone had left the room and I could work in total silence.

I'm fighting with Sena right now for replacement of my 10U. First the handlebar remote didn't power on after charging, and then the 10U itself would only last 5 - 6 hours if I was lucky. My riding partners were easily getting 10+ constant talk time on theirs. I've updated the firmware but I find it hard to believe that doing that will alleviate the short battery life. Hoping for a full replacement. I've only had it since February when I ordered my new Neotec.