Dedicated GPS vs Cell Phone

OK, I'm starting to get pissed off with my Zumo 665. Battery life (off bike) is severely diminished compared to new, I can't load a full mapset without going to an SD card and for some reason, the 665 doesn't like anything bigger than 8gb (whereas the 660 takes 32 gb). The above in combination with the fact that I find it exceedingly difficult to read in bright daylight is making me crazy. I don't want to spend a ton of money on Garmin's latest version of antiquated planned obsolescence.

There was the following thread from a couple years ago but things (software and phone technology) have changed:
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/169758-why-should-i-buy-a-garmin-over-using-my-smartphone/?hl

If I'm missing a reasonably current thread on the subject, this once can be trashed and I'll get my information from there.

Probably looking at another GPS but was considering using my cell phone (Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge). The phone is waterproof and can be mounted using a RAM X-mount. There have been some discussions on using cell phones for GPS but perhaps it is time for a dedicated thread discussing pros and cons of phone vs dedicated GPS; especially since many of the most recent generation of cell phones are waterproof. There is an obvious need for downloaded maps since a signal may be absent (or expensive) in many locales. I don't want a solution for simple point-to-point navigation or applications where connectivity is required.

So, for those who have switched to using their cell as a bar mounted interactive GPS:

• Pros (compared to dedicated GPS)
• Cons
• Phone brand/model used
• Software package used (and cost, if any)
• (Computer) routing software availability and flexibility (and cost)
• Ease of programming on the fly
• Quality of POI information
• Up-to-date map availability
• Readability of display in bright daylight
• Temperature sensitivity (hot and cold)
• Mounting options

A few years ago, I wouldn't have considered a phone application to be a suitable substitute because of the fact that my previous phone wasn't waterproof and I did not have the space to store a mapset + POI as large as the 4+ GB that the current Garmin download takes. My current phone has a 64 GB micro SD card in it and I think something like 50 GB is still available!

In addition, the phone can offer you music, Bluetooth communication, voice activation, tunes and even act as a dash cam. (Can make telephone calls too!)

i haven't used it much yet but I downloaded CoPilot for my Samsung. It allows you to download maps that are pretty specific to an area. I don't know how detailed or accurate the maps are but it does seem to work pretty well initially plus you're not using any data from your cellular plan.

You asked for it ...

So, for those who have switched to using their cell as a bar mounted interactive GPS:

• Pros (compared to dedicated GPS): One less gadget to check on, worry about, and synch with my Sena
  
• Cons: Absolutely no help when outside cell service -- which honestly isn't that often, but always when you really need it. Said another way, when cruising the super-fun roads in WV during last year's EOM, I rode 20 miles too far down the funnest road evah because my iPhone had no service, didn't know where we were, and couldn't consult with Miss Google. On second thought, that event wasn't a bad thing after all.
  
• Phone brand/model used: iPhone 5S, and I think it doesn't use as much data as some would believe.
  
• Software package used (and cost, if any) Google Maps and Spotwalla simultaneously. KISS is my motto.
  
• (Computer) routing software availability and flexibility (and cost) Google Maps is free, however, it does NOT do turn by turn routing on the phone -- at least not that I can figure out. Point-to-point is a piece of cake. To follow a pre-planned route, load your route from My Maps, and play "keep the blue dot on the blue line".
  
• Ease of programming on the fly Google Maps is always on the fly. If you mean "change your pre-planned route", see above response.
  
• Quality of POI information Superb. So superb I find it annoying and turn it off.
  
• Up-to-date map availability On only one occasion in 10,000 miles of using it, due to very recent construction, Google Maps didn't have the latest road map. Not a problem, as I just kept going straight and Miss Google figured it out.
  
• Readability of display in bright daylight Depends on your phone. Mine's pretty good; at least as good as the Garmin I've abandoned. That's important! Since I can see the screen so well, I don't allow audible route instructions to contaminate my podcasts and phone calls.
  
• Temperature sensitivity (hot and cold) iPhone 5 has gotten too cold once, and I was an idjit for riding in those conditions.
  
• Mounting options Lifeproof case (Fre) and Lifeproof magnetic mount. It's so cool! Stick the phone to the mount (literally), and twist it to release. It's mounted on my dashboard shelf directly above the speedometer, and extremely easy to read while keeping traffic in your peripheral vision. Power cord runs from glove box (with closed lid) and is tucked out of the way.
  
• The single drawback, and it can be a big one, is that Google Maps won't give you turn-by-turn directions along a pre-planned route. (If it can, someone please tell me how!)

You can do multipoint routing with Google Maps and it will certainly alert you with turns - not sure what you are looking for there...

I don't want a Google Maps implementation because I need to be able to have maps whether or not cell service is available. I also want to be able to do complex routing on the computer and transfer to my GPS device. Direct programming a complex route directly on the device sucks whether you are using Garmin or GM. I will frequently map out a multi-day trip with many more than the 20 or so waypoints Google Maps will allow for a single map. I have to admit that creating a multi-point route in Google Maps on the computer is very easy - much cleaner than BaseCamp or MS Streets and Trips. In fact, I often do a preliminary map in GM (in sections) on the computer before committing to BaseCamp. Haven't had as much luck transferring a GM to the phone once created on the computer. Google Maps is far better than Garmin with respect to being up-to-date (POI and roads) but (other than for relatively local riding and relatively simple routes) it doesn't give me what I want. You mentioned Spotwalla and I am already using the phone for that. With the current phones, a waterproof case isn't even necessary.

Edit to add:

Computer routing is a "must have" - ability to create a detailed route using a full-screen map on a computer.

Would be nice of the mapping tools are simple to learn - BaseCamp was a struggle for the first few times!

Off-line maps are an absolute requirement

Complex multi-point routing

Don't mind paying for the maps and software if the implementation is good.

Not interested in a "free" app that is designed primarily as a means of conveying unwanted advertising in my direction.

I use https://kurviger.de/en from Windows and kurviger app on android phone, if apple, you can import it to scenic.

Use copilot in past but pain to do it on the phone.

2wheels4fun said:

I use https://kurviger.de/en from Windows and kurviger app on android phone, if apple, you can import it to scenic.Use copilot in past but pain to do it on the phone.

Click to expand...

Looks interesting - at least the paid version for $13.

Not sure how the size on the phone is only 4.4 mb, even without POI.

One bit of information from their site I didn't like

"The route calculation requires you to have an internet connection, but the navigation itself does not require an internet connection, when using offline maps."

That might be a deal-breaker.

One of the features of the Pro version says "★ Longer round trips (1000km / 600mi)" - does that mean it can't do anything longer? (I may have misinterpreted that)

Will do some more reading on that app...

Google Maps allows download of map sections for offline access, I pre-load my riding area regularly. Helps when driving in the city where coverage can be unreliable. It also gives spoken and/or visual guidance when following a planned route, despite what UH said. Haven't used that in a long while, however, so I'd need to play with it to confirm/explain.

eflyguy said:

Google Maps allows download of map sections for offline access, I pre-load my riding area regularly. Helps when driving in the city where coverage can be unreliable. It also gives spoken and/or visual guidance when following a planned route, despite what UH said. Haven't used that in a long while, however, so I'd need to play with it to confirm/explain.

Click to expand...

I guess I haven't tried downloading Google Map segments although I heard it was possible. Are there limitations? For example, I am doing a coast to coast 6,000 km ride starting a week from tomorrow... Lots of stops and route-shaping waypoints along the way. Piece of cake with BaseCamp once you figure out how to use it! For the Garmin, I would simply create one master route and a few alternatives, load them all onto the GPS and pick and choose as I go based on timing and weather.
Edit: Looked at downloading Google Map segments and while decent for a local ride, not practical for a journey that uses up significant portions of continents!

RossKean said:

2wheels4fun said:

I use https://kurviger.de/en from Windows and kurviger app on android phone, if apple, you can import it to scenic.Use copilot in past but pain to do it on the phone.

Click to expand...

Looks interesting - at least the paid version for $13.

Not sure how the size on the phone is only 4.4 mb, even without POI.

One bit of information from their site I didn't like

"The route calculation requires you to have an internet connection, but the navigation itself does not require an internet connection, when using offline maps."

That might be a deal-breaker.

One of the features of the Pro version says "★ Longer round trips (1000km / 600mi)" - does that mean it can't do anything longer? (I may have misinterpreted that)

Will do some more reading on that app...

Click to expand...

You need a internet connection to reroute but you can do without if you notice you are off route, just fine the blue line again and you back on route. I have a friend using it on amazon fire phone with no service at all, just wifi and it's working for him.

I have played with this set up before - I was running a samsung TAB A6 - 7" wifi only version (the cheap one you can find them for $100). I put a 64 Gb micro SD card in it and loaded all of the maps (Entire US and Canada) on the SD card. Plus music. I could use my phone as a hot spot if I wanted - I even had a hot spot from Virgin Mobile. I really didn't need to be online though as all of the maps were local on the tablet. It worked as advertised.The hotspot allowed me to use another alternative - Waze which I like a lot more. I found the destination searching in Co-Pilot to be kind of clunky so I gave up on the experience. The benefit was the ability to keep my phone safe and sound in my smuggler trunk. I have never had an experience with the RAM X grip letting go it is just kind of a quirky device wanting to rotate and such. The Samsung was power hungry I would have had to source a 2.1a USB plug eventually the standard 1.0a just wasn't enough.

I found a new method that is very promising. I broke down and bought an Apple Watch. When you use Apple Maps it causes the watch to tap (vibrate) on your wrist. I ignore the GPS most of the time and when the watch taps I look down quickly at the phone. Not many miles on the bike with this but thousands in the car. It is awesome.

One of these days I might give co-pilot another try. It was neat having that big screen.

Joe

I used my phone a year ago as a GPS, app I used was Sygic. Took some time but I created a custom route in BaseCamp, converted it to a format Sygic would read and uploaded it. What pushed me over the edge to buy a GPS, my phone started doing stuff it hadn't done before during a trip and never did it after.

- After a voice command Google music would start playing

- I started getting questions to updated apps that I have never used. They would take priority and navigation stopped. Had to pull over to get navigation back and that happened several times.

- App locked up a few times in addition to above.

- There are a few other things I just don't remember right now.

Keep in mind your phone is doing a lot of stuff even when it's sitting on your desk or in your pocket not looking at it. Add a GPS app that is CPU heavy, your screen is now on for a very long time and like many of us you will ride when it's in the 90s or hotter. All of this adds a lot of heat which is rough on a phone. In my case it was a hot day, my phone became very warm, unpredictable and a very frustrating headache. Maybe S7 is better at handling the heat. I would take it on a trial run on a hot sunny day for a couple hours and see how well it does. Also don't forget you're putting all your eggs in one basket.

For me a GPS was the way to go after what I went through. Plus, if it dies for whatever reason I have a phone as a backup GPS assuming I have cell coverage.

I have the 665 as well and I just updated it last week. I had 100 MB free before that and I’m down to 75 MB now. Frustrating Garmin doesn’t take that in to consideration when updating this device, I’m sure there is some un-needed code in there someplace to free up some space. What I think they are trying to do is eat up all that space and force the 665 or 660 owners to upgrade. Only way I’d be OK with that is if they gave me a nice trade-in credit towards a new one, but I would sure miss the built-in XM radio; Too bad they stopped offering that.

Good luck with your decision.

I had this very question / quandry when I got my new 18', two months back; whether to keep the 665 or start using phone.

Seen a lot of guys use their x mounted phone, The Two Wheeled Obsession Youtube guy uses that set up; which got me to thinking.

CON:

Having traveled a lot over the past 5 years, using my phone for navigation in cars could be a pain.

Especially when switching towers in rural freeway areas, or even in dense downtown areas. The turns could be slow.

I Use an Iphone 8plus for the last few months and even still today in downtown Houston, the maps would get glitchy, slow and could not pick up my location, I start driving and it has my location away from the highlighted path.

It got me to thinking that on a Motorcycle, I need my turns to be spot on and I have to trust the phone and not wait on it to delay turning arrows or instructions.

Another issue: These phones are not built to be in direct sun in a lifeproof case or naked, the heat destroys the battery life of the phone. The case is protection from water and drops, not heat.

I do use the phone for connection with the Sena 20S, which I can take calls, have Siri read me my text messages, and I can speak to text and she will send a reply.

The 20S works well with the phones, at least the Iphones 6 and up.

Garmin Con:

So, I just re-mounted my Garmin 665 on the new bike; and will just struggle to update it when it's time again....it gave me a message yesterday that it's time for that already.

Garmin Pro:

Another reason and I think it's an important one for those that travel solo often and different times of the day; that if I go down at speed, and "S*%T goes flying everywhere, I want my phone in my pocket so I can at least reach it and call for help. Just a thought. So it stays zipped in my inside jacket pocket.

I am still doing the research and trying out some options but I am discouraged so far. IF Google Maps allowed for the creation of a detailed map which could be transferred to my phone and if it would be satisfactory in an off-line mode, that is something I could live with for now. I have already determined that the downloaded off-line map is geographically too limited and I can't seem to transfer a computer-created GM to the phone. The "send to phone" function doesn't seem to work and when I email a route to the phone, the map that is created does the beginning and endpoint without using any of the waypoints originally set. Creating a complex route in GM on the phone isn't a suitable option for anything more than a short trip - the required connectivity isn't there anyway.

I would have to think that Google could come out with a dedicated GPS device that embraces all of the advantages of their technology. There is little doubt that they could beat Garmin at their game! It might be too small a market for Google, maybe they don't want to be tied to a specific platform or perhaps with more and more cars coming with built-in GPS and the use of smartphones, they see it as a diminishing market. I can think of a whole host of functions that could be built into a small waterproof tablet with a decent processor and sufficient memory that would leave Garmin high and dry!

If I could at least improve the screen visibility of the Zumo in daylight, I would replace the battery, change to putting the maps directly on the SD card and put up with it for another few years! Sunshades help a bit and some people have found that screen protectors are an improvement but not enough for me. I assume that nobody has come up with an aftermarket Zumo screen that offers better visibility in bright daylight?

I use the phone on the bike. I mostly use Waze rather than Google Maps, since I'm interested in real time traffic info while commuting. For area where I don't have coverage but need the GPS, I use Here Maps which can download the maps locally. Waze will cache maps along a route, but if you were just freestyling without a planned route you may not have map coverage without cell coverage.

I tried using a rather generic Garmin (2720 maybe) for a while but found it didn't meet my needs as far as UI and the maps were often out of date. At least with Waze, Google Maps, Apple Maps, etc., the maps are nearly always up to date.

I use an X Mount with a spider web for extra security and run my power straight to it. At one point I was using wireless charging but the wireless coldn't keep up with the phone draw in bright sunlight. When the screen was dimmer it was ok. Now I just plug it in.

My phone is waterproof so I don't really worry about that. I think the biggest issue is that some of the apps (nav and music) don't offer very glove friendly controls. I tend to use DriveMode to allow a better mobile interface in this case.

I finally, after a year of ownership, got my 595LM to work. Before I bought it, I used dueling iphones for nav. I prefer the garmin, partly for visibility, touchscreen, fuel management, and three or four other things it does. It lets me check weather, gas locations, traffic, read texts, do routing, manage music between onboard mp3, itunes, pandora, and spotify, and a few other things, all with gloves on. My iphones do that pretty good as long as there is cell service, but are harder to see, and I can't do anything with gloves on. For me, a dedicated gps is easier to interact with while riding than an iphone (and easier to read). It's not that the gps is that much more capable, it's just easier for me to use. For a long time, Garmin could not get my 595LM to work. Finally, I terminated the phone/helmet relationship (something garmin says should not be necessary under any circumstance). As long as my phone doesn't know my helmet comms even exist, and my helmet doesn't know there's my iphone exists (except for fobo alerts), the 595LM does what it's supposed to. I still have an iphone in a lifeproof case in a slipgrip mount, but I could just as easily leave it in the topcase when I'm using the garmin.

I use a Samsung Tab A7 for my "GPS"

• Pros (compared to dedicated GPS) - Larger screen, easier to connect to my headset along with a phone, many different apps that I can use once I reach camp (Kindle, games, edit photos, etc.). Does not need data connection to work. The tablet has an internal GPS chip, just like your phone, so with the right app, no cell service is necessary.
  
• Cons - The screen becomes a big mirror when the sun is just right. It is not fully waterproof, but behind the barn door of the FJR, it doesn't get much water on it anyway. On the hottest days (100+) it will begin to overheat, so it will not charge. The battery will last for several hours without being plugged in, but it is an issue. I have a protective case on the tablet, so that adds to the heat problem. The way I have the tablet positioned, it does block the speedometer, but the GPS speedometer is more accurate anyway...
  
• Phone brand/model used - Samsung Galaxy Tab A7
  
• Software package used (and cost, if any) - Copilot, $10 (one time, not a subscription), which includes maps of all of North America
  
• (Computer) routing software availability and flexibility (and cost) - Furkot. Furkot is free, feature packed, and allows in-depth route planning, including sleeping, gas, and food stops. It has a huge online support community. You can export routes in Copilot's file format (along with several other formats for other GPS programs/devices)
  
• Ease of programming on the fly - Easier than the Garmin and TomTom units I have used in the past. The Copilot data base does include POIs, gas, food, and lodging.
  
• Quality of POI information - So far, so good. I have used it to find gas stations and motels when plans changed from the original route.
  
• Up-to-date map availability - Copilot updates their maps pretty regularly. I have encountered the occasional error, but I have encountered that with Google, Garmin, TomTom, etc.
  
• Readability of display in bright daylight - The screen has a "daylight" mode that is pretty bright. The only time I have trouble seeing the screen is when the sun is right behind my head and thus blinding me off of the screen surface. A glare-reducing screen cover would be a good idea. Otherwise, I can read the screen well. Being huge is a big plus.
  
• Temperature sensitivity (hot and cold) - I haven't had cold issues (riding down into the high 20s), but I have had heat issues as stated above.
  
• Mounting options - I use a Big Squeeze. It is expensive, but it is SOLID. The thing I don't like about the x-grip is that you have to use a rubber band to keep the phone/tablet secure, and you have to glue the little rubber feet on the arms. For my $90 tablet, it isn't a big deal, but when I put my $800 phone in the holder, I want it to be secure. I use a RamBone and long Ram arm to get the tablet over my tank bag.
  

draco_1967 said:

I use a Samsung Tab A7 for my "GPS"

Click to expand...

Nice response, thanks. I have an old 8" Samsung Tablet that I could consider trying. Would need to get a suitable mount and be prepared to remove it if it starts to rain. I guess the other "con" for the phone is the expense and risk of losing it, damaging it or having it stolen. The issue with cell service was for apps that didn't keep the information "on- board". A device that relied on cell towers for location could not be nearly as precise as needed.

My setup - Note 5 in a custom mount with wireless charging. Not waterproof, but stays mostly dry at speed. Has been wetter than I like at times but hasn't been an issue. Bagged it a few times during extended rain. The fluttering wet bag caused random screen presses at times.

I use the Automate app to set up the phone for riding. My routine goes like this: start Fobo manually, verify tire pressure. Start Automate, which puts screen at full brightness (excellent, even in bright sun), sets volume to a specific level compatible with the default volume of my helmet intercom, turns off wifi (supposed to reduce chance of bluetooth glitch), starts a music app, and a couple other things I cant' remember. Slip the phone into the mount and go, the whole routing takes about 30 seconds. At the end of the ride Automate runs a different routine to put everything back to normal.

Use Google maps. Couldn't get custom maps to work as you discovered. I did find a way to email a custom map that seemed to work when I tried it at home, but I gave up the idea as too clumsy. Set Google map offline mode, found it worked fine for me coast to coast. It could have been out of coverage at times on long highway stretches that I didn't notice. Also had a couple offline map apps installed but never used them.

I leave a music app running, even if the music is paused. Keeps bluetooth open to prevent clipping of nav instructions.

I can bring up Google Assistant with a long press of the home button. Use it mostly to make calls and commence navigation. Found "OK Google" to be glitchy on the helmet mic. Use gloves with touch sensitive finger tips more than I like, but being able to use the phone normally on the fly is mandatory. Asking Google Assistant to change screens etc becomes an exercise in frustration. Maybe it's better with Bixby or whatever. I modified my mount a couple times to get the phone higher and make viewing and operating the least distracting. A center mount would be best for viewing, but left of center best compromise for operating.

Love the setup. Far from perfect, but I had to chuckle when I saw other riders stopped and struggling with a paper map in the wind. Phones are so powerful and flexible that you could make a full-time hobby of customizing to your liking.

I navigate between stops, unless I'm trying to find a particular location (restaurant, hotel, etc...). I can usually figure out where I need to go for at least the next 100-150 miles. When I need a GPS, I have my iPhone on a Techmount right on the steering head nut. Works great.

I know if I ever manage to get out west I'll probably find a lot more dead zones...that's a problem to solve later.

Dan