Service Intervals

redgum · Dec 6, 2005

First, I've done a search and couldn't find the answer, I've tried to post under "neverending pointless topics" and it wouldn't let me... so in advance my appologies if this has already ben coverred.

The guys at the local Yamaha dealership were telling me that I need to change the oil and filter every 4 months on my FJR because of the effects of fuel on the sump oil. They referred to ethanol in the fuel and the effects of sulpher.

Now I'm not sure how good this advice is. 6 months or XXXX miles is usually recommended and some even say with modern oil 12 is OK as long as you don't exceed the service interval for miles travelled. I do know that sulpher can be a problem, mixing with condensation in the engine as it cools and creating a mild sulphuric mix. But I thought this was less of an issue with modern unleaded fuels, at least here in the land down under - I could of course be wrong.

Anybody know the answer to this? Is the local shop just drumming up buisiness or should we be changing oil ever 4 months?

Cheers

Redgum

zorkler · Dec 6, 2005

just think about it changing the oil every 120 days ? there pulling your leg or smoking crack again . most are chaning it every 3 to 4 k .

Bounce · Dec 6, 2005

The guys at the local Yamaha dealership were telling me that I need to change the oil and filter every 4 months on my FJR because of the effects of fuel on the sump oil. They referred to ethanol in the fuel and the effects of sulpher.
Now I'm not sure how good this advice is. 6 months or XXXX miles is usually recommended and some even say with modern oil 12 is OK as long as you don't exceed the service interval for miles travelled. I do know that sulpher can be a problem, mixing with condensation in the engine as it cools and creating a mild sulphuric mix. But I thought this was less of an issue with modern unleaded fuels, at least here in the land down under - I could of course be wrong.

If it's taking you longer than 6 months to accumulate 3000 to 4000 miles, then you aren't riding enough!

downn2(aka starcruiser) · Dec 6, 2005

Looks like somebody pissing down your boot telling ya it's raining......Ask yourself this, why isn't there an expiration date of cans of oil setting on store shelves? If oil can sit on a self for years without going bad, why's it gonna go bad sitting in a crackcase....

It wouldn't suprise me if you your dealer also owned the HD store in town....sounds like the typical BS you'd get at a HD dealer anyway.....

Geezer · Dec 6, 2005

Well, it all depends on whether you're using synthetic or mineral oil...

Actually, there are some very informative threads about motor oil on the forum that you should read when you have time. I try to perform all of the recommended maintenance on the schedule in the owner's manual. Sometimes I'd rather ride than perform maintenance and the mileage might go as much as 5k between oil changes. I don't think that's anything to worry about.

If you are going to store your bike , like maybe for the winter, you should put fresh oil in the crankcase to prevent the contaminants (especially acid) in the old oil from etching your bearing surfaces.

charismaticmegafauna · Dec 6, 2005

Right on what Geezer said. Two things (at least) happen to oil -- once it's removed from a sealed container and exposed to the atmosphere. One, it oxidates (changes, cooks, becomes something else) -- faster when it's heated but will oxidate no matter what. Two, it will get contaminated with the by-products of combustion -- and, some of these (water and sulphur?), have the ability to form acids that etch (and ruin) internal parts (like crank journals). So, even if you don't use your bike (can't imagine this scenario?) -- you need to change the crankcase oil at least once a year because it will become something else (oxidate). If you use it even just a little, you need to change it more often because of the science projects (due to contamination) that will be going on -- and they go on even while you're sleeping (like rust). IMO, using your bike often and on a regular basis is the least challenging usage -- in relation to oil changes, that is.

markjenn · Dec 6, 2005

Calendar-based (rather than time-based) oil change intervals are recomended for two reasons:

1. Periods of inactivity make corrosion more likely and you don't want excessively dirty oil sitting in an engine for long periods of time.

2. Low rates of vehicle usage are often associated with short trips where the engine doesn't reach sufficient temperature to burn off the moisture that accumulates in the engine during each cold start cycle.

Oil doesn't accumulate corrosive products just sitting there in your garage. It is the cold start cycle and mileage that loads the oil, with the cold start cycle equating to a fair number of miles. And oils have sophisticated additive packages that can neutralize a lot of corrosive products, so you can let it go for some period and let the oil do it's job.

With this in mind, you can see that a single recommendation (change once very X months), doesn't fit all situations. For example, a bike that is riddent infrequently but each time reaches full operating temperature, is probably good to go much longer than a year between changes. OTOH, a daily driver that only goes a few miles is going to really load it's oil up in a few months.

Having said all this, the once/year recommendation is a pretty good guideline. I'd go once every six-months if you don't get your bike up to full temp on every ride. Once every three-months is extremely conservative and would really be absolute worst case, such as driving every day but only for a couple miles.

- Mark

Ignacio · Dec 6, 2005

Ask that dealer to show you in the user or service manual what they claim. If they can't, ask them to show documentation that they know more than the Yamaha engineers.....preferably with some sort of college degree behind it. (Read that as it won't happen)

Would move to the never-ending thread, but this is more about a crackpot dealer than it is about members debating potato vs. potatoe. Leaving in the current thread and watching to see if the conversation drifts....

rdfrantz · Dec 6, 2005

Fuel should never be creating a problem with your oil.

First, alcohol is going to be fully consumed with combustion, not affecting the oil. Large volumes of alchohol sitting in tank and lines might prove caustic, but the actual volumes - from Reliable Vendors - are low, and modern designs take its presence into account - far from your oil.

Gasoline dilution of oil is very, very unlikely to occur at the lean mixtures, and street use cycles you'll encounter. Racing, and cold starts without full warm up that heats the oil and evaporates gasoline, and water, are not what you're going to do, right?

I use a gasoline from a Top Tier member (www.toptier.com) because all the way to the pump those products are guaranteed to not only not cause problems, but also contain items that keep an engine and fuel system clean -- including absense of unheathy levels of products like sulphur.

A Good Oil has additives which neutralize acids, and lots of other good things. I choose a Commercail Grade oil like synthetic Rotella T becuase of the good base stock used and the more robust additive packages.

I'd rather not allow my motorcycles to sit without running. A full warm-up relubes surfaces and evaporates crap. A good ride lubes all the parts, even if a short one, but one that gets everything hot. But even sitting for a month or two is not going to hurt anything, though it's a good idea to tend to the battery and use a small amount of fuel stabilizer.

Heat, normal operating temperature for 10 minutes, is your friend. So is Good Gas. So is Good Oil.

Best wishes.

redgum · Dec 7, 2005

First...thanks. I'm feeling less embarrassed about positing the thread now I've read through the responses.

So... I've shaken all the piss out of my boot and realised that it ain't raining (thanks downn2 ... hope you don't mind if use that one) and I think the answer is clear.... stick with the manufacturer's recommendation and do 1 year interval or normal mileage intervals (whichever comes first).

The bike does do some short runs, but not often. It was bought for and is used mostly for long runs between Canberra and Victoria - especially for those summer runs over the mountain. Despite these trips clocking up well 1500km each time I do them, you're right...I'm not riding enough!

Again...thanks

Bounce · Dec 7, 2005

Despite these trips clocking up well 1500km each time I do them, you're right...I'm not riding enough!

Well then fix it, MISTER!

B)

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