Stuck Gas Cap

Went to fill it up. Insert key, twist, no dice. Huh? Twist again, nope. WTF. Gave it a little tug, still ain't gonna. Maybe something is up with the latch and it's not retracting. I'll just remove the allen screws and pull out the entire assembly to see what's up. Nope, something additional that I can't access under the cap is holding in. Gawd damit! This is eating into my lunch hour! So, I try tugging again, still gently, with the key and this time the key flap , hear pffffffftt, and it opens up! The cause was excessive vacuum in the tank. How did that happen? Upon further investigation I noticed the orange rubber nipple-like thingy just forward of the cap's hinge was partially out if its channel which I gather is part of venting circuit and responsible for today's science lesson. To right of it was the last allen screw holding the cap assembly to the tank.

Anyone wanna see me hang an FJR from my tongue?

You're not the first. Part of an oil change should be a blast of brake cleaner down this vent. to clean out debris and to make sure it's clear. I recall one report of the fuel pump collapsing one tank.

Thanks Radman. It's gonna get done tonight since it's 8k maintenance time.

I almost rode the bike the 21 mile trip home to deal with it since I did have enough gas left. Good thing I didn't. Would have been a frightening sight to witness the tank wrinkle in on itself should the vacuum have reached that point.

I could imagine the dealer blaming it on that stuff they claim as gas here in California. :nea:

I've only broken the 40mpg barrier a couple of times.

Last year an FJR wouldn't start. Ends up a pinched vent line was keeping the pump from pressurizing the fuel rail. Good idea to check the vents every now and again.

I've added checking of the vents to my periodic list, and the checking of the grommet connector thingy at each fill up. Too bad this was learned after the fact.

Now the fuel gauge is off. I filled up before the Alice's ride and noticed that the top bar would not display. I filled it up 13 miles after the last bar starting blinking and found that there were ~2.5 gallons in the tank. I suspect the fuel float didn't fair well in this incident and perhaps lost some of it's air causing the lever to rest lower in the tank. I wonder if the float is easily removed from the lever (couldn’t tell from the pic in the shop manual) in which case I may replace it myself as I'm not too confident in my dealer. Then again, why should I hassle myself with this? I just may turn it over and let them deal with it since it's under warranty anyway.

https://p083.ezboard.com/ffjr1300ownersasso...icID=1998.topic

Hey Bud,

ScooterG posted a bunch of pics of his gas tank rework in the thread above. Lots of info you need if you want to attempt the work yourself ( probably safer that way )

Excellent! Thank you. In SkooterG's pic, it appears that the float is easily removed from the fuel level arm. The entire job looks easy enough 'cept for the unpleasantries of dealing with gas.

We should get a fuel filter argument going again. It's been a while....

We should get a fuel filter argument going again. It's been a while....

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OK, I'll take that bait.

If the filter on the tank is expected to last for the life of the bike then it can't be very granular or it would clog up over time. If it lets the small stuffget through then I would expect the injectors to clog up at some point. So why is there no replaceable fuel filter external to the tank?

I put an inline filter on an RE5 back in the 70's and, even though the filter was exposed it would still cause vapor lock once it heated whenever I rode in city traffic. I would imagine with the heat coming off of the FJR it would be difficult to find a place to put an inline filter where it would stay cool.

PM of the fuel filler cap/neck.

https://www.bikes-n-spikes.org/maint/ff/ff.html

I stopped by my dealer on the way home from work. They gave me a 2 week turn-around estimate which is comprised of:

However long it takes to diagnose the eroneous fuel level display (? days)

Obtaining warranty coverage approval from Yamaha (? days)

Ordering a receiving the part (3-5 days)

Installing the part (? days)

I've never had the (mis)fortune of any vehicle issue being covered under warranty. Is this the norm?

I inquired about purchasing just the fuel level sender float and installing it myself to avoid the 2 week down time since I'm willing to bet it's the cause. It's $438 and comes with a free fuel pump assembly (fuel filter too!).

$400+ bucks, huh? Wow! Looking at ScooterG's pics, looks like you could tweek that wire holding the float in place. Maybe get lucky and get it right on the first time.

We Royal Star owners had a similar inaccuracy in our low fuel light. There was a wire in the tank that when the fuel level dropped down far enough to expose it, the fuel light (one gallon left) would go on prematurely. Some would have to bend the wire up or down to get the right results.

As far as the vaccum in the tank, it was a fairly common problem with the V-Stars (sucked in tanks). IIRC, it was caused by a malfunctioning air check valve in the venting system. It happened enough times to cause a backlog on ordering replacement tanks.

In the case of the FJR, early on there was some dialogue about the vent hoses picking up a lot of road crud. Seems that the end of the hose is cut at a slant and the slant was facing forward, resulting in an air scoop that would collect crap. Indicator was presence of dirt and crap under the fuel cap. It would travel up the hose (probably get blown up from the wind) and some would end up in the filler area. Fix to this problem for most would be simply to cut the hose a bit shorter and angle the cut to the rear. Some riders attached a little air filter breather to the end of the hose.

OK, so I had my vent hoses clog, and I just raised my tank for some other farkles and noticed it is no longer flat bottomed. I've also had fuel gauge problems since the clog. Does anyone think this would be repaired/replaced under the YES warranty? I'd hate to think that a repair is possible, or how someone would go about it.

Does anyone think this would be repaired/replaced under the YES warranty? I'd hate to think that a repair is possible, or how someone would go about it.

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Since you only discovered that the tank was sucked in after lifting it, no cosmetic problems, but you did lose some capacity.

Fixes would include:

1. Popping out the dent with pressure from air. (I wouldn't recommend that one).

2. Beating the bottom back down with a large wooden dowel and a rubber hammer. I would try that if I had to buy a new tank. Empty tank with pump, remove and lay on lots of padding and pound away.

3. Unless there is a prescribed PM schedule for checking/cleaning/maintaining the tank venting system, I'm pretty confident that Yamaha would replace the tank. They replaced many tanks for the V-Star.

This ain't supposed to happen, but I'm putting it on my 'things to check' list. I also think I will consider installing a breather on the vent hose end. Right now my checking procedure consists of seeing the little puddle of gas that sometimes drips out of the hose from vapor condensation (won't see that on Kalifornia models).

Yo Bob, FJR Riders relocated to Saudi. Thought you oughta know.... At least thats where the link first sent me.

Dgfella's account got me concerned to the point to where I lifted my tank to take a closer look and found that the underneath of my tank was quite puckered in. I failed to notice this when I did the 8k TBS and Iridium spark plug replacement since the aluminum "heat shielding" did a good job of disguising the mess (I used ScooterG's pics as a exhibit A). What I did notice is what a pain in the arse it was to get the front tank mounting bolts properly started (Watch it! Don't cross-thread those aluminum threads in the frame!) when buttoning things back up, much more so than previous under-tank adventures. This also explains why the left plastic cover was cracked under the allen head screw due to the distortion and of the new squeak in the tank area when braking or going over speed bumps and up driveway lips.

(sigh)......**it. :angry:

Cosmetically, the damage is otherwise unnoticeable. There are no other externally visible signs of the damage.

I'll be updating my dealer with my discovery tomorrow. I hope 05 fuels tanks aren't on back order.

Yo Bob, FJR Riders relocated to Saudi.

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Dang! Now Delphi is in league with the Saudies. Highjackin' FJR Forumers to camel country. What's next? h34r:

I guess my link directs non-Delphi (AKA 'outsiders') to various websites to discourage them from participating in forum discussions - great way to do business!

Did you ever get into the forum? Just curious. When I click the link, it takes me to the Delphi sign-in page and from there to the forum. Maybe I'll just shut the damned thing down.

dgfella and staledonut - man, I am sending some major sympathy out to you two dudes. What a freakin bummer. Interesting, that in the 3 years on FJR forums, I have never heard of that happening, and now all of a sudden twice! What did you guys do to deserve such bad fjr karma?

A lesson for us all - a little preventative maintenance can save a major hassle.

Me, I have the opposite problem. Twice now the venting system on my fjr has somehow failed, and the tank has overpressurized. The last time it did this was a couple weeks ago, and when I opened the fuel tank cap, it was like an explosion. Then, sat there and watched the remaining fuel in the tank boil like crazy! Luckily, no other adverse effects.

Yo Bob! Whatcha got on that Delphi forum? Discussions of faggoty-*** trailers?

Hope to see you at WFO next year, and yes, you can even bring the faggoty-*** trailer.

Thanks ScooterG. Maybe painting the middle finger of my left glove day-glo orange for increased visibility had something to do with the bad karma.

I stopped by the dealer today to update them on the issue. I also made an appointment to drop off the bike at the dealer Monday to have issue looked at and hopefully resolved with a tank replacement under warranty without hassle. I don't see how it could be repaired since there is a crease in the sheet metal that may break if straightened.

I tried to get some level of assurance that this would be taken care of under warranty but they said they would have to take the tank off and find the cause before calling Yamaha to obtain coverage permission which I can understand. I'm concerned about possibly being blamed for this since I've been the only one under the tank (pinched vent hose upon reassembly?). This occurred with ~7900 miles on the bike with the tank last lifted at 4100 miles to perform a TBS. A pinched vent hose or other improperly re-assembled item should have caused the tank to collapse much earlier.

My theory is that the when the orange rubber "check valve" (I'm assuming that's what it's called) came out of its channel for reasons still only theorized, it blocked the tiny breather hole on the underside of the gas cap causing negative pressure to further build in the tank as the fuel level decreased resulting in the tank's collapse.

I've looked at the routing diagram for the tank hoses (page 2-56 of the shop manual) and found that the line the check valve is connect to routes to the canister (I have a Kalifornia model) and is noted as the "canister charge hose". I wonder if this line functions to equalize both positive and negative tank pressure. It has to be since the only other lines are the fuel pump out, fuel return, and tank overflow. I placed a short length of tubing against the valve and blew and then sucked. Nothing. The line to the canister is not pinched.

I do not know if this normal. Perhaps airflow in an out of the canister is very limited by design. If not normal, this may explain why the valve came out if its channel: as the tank's vacuum increased, the valve collapsed pulling it from its channel causing it to block the breather hole. This is the second time the valve has come out of its channel. Perhaps the first time the valve came out its channel due to excessive vacuum but did not block the breather hole instead exposing it to the outside and equalizing the pressure.

In the case of over pressure, due to whatever failure, the valve looks as if it might “fart” releasing some pressure as it only rests flush against the breather hole and has no channel. Only theory, with holes created by your experience. Do other Yamaha's use this same check valve?