2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

quietguy · Aug 1, 2007

Thanks for the (update), truwrecks.

I'll be running the gauntlet this weekend, on my trip to Eureka Springs - will be the first ride to any altitude. I've already alerted my selling dealer to be prepared for feedback next week. Guess I'm fortunate.. I'm friends with the staff and owner.

Let's hope resolution is forthcoming soon and for the whole lot.

Lennie

Rls · Aug 1, 2007

I have a 07 number 3772 with 2500 miles. I just got back from Colorado - I live in OKla. In Colorado I had at times slight to very severe surging on this four day trip. Any major change of altitude would cause it. The worst being this morning outside of Taos NM on NM518. It was in some road construction on the pass and it would hardly run due to it bucking and surging. Funny thing was that it was 42 degrees out and that with the altitude really made it bad. All my surging was above 5000 feet. It did it between Estes Park and the top of Rocky Mtn National park trail ridge road. At tree line on Independence pass, Going up Monarch pass and the road from gunnision Co to Lake City and of course Wolf Creek. To me it seems that something is wrong either in the mapping in how it deals with altitude changes or a bad bunch of MAP sensors? Anyway, I plan to call my dealer tomorrow and have them contact Yamaha regarding getting it fixed. I know for sure they cannot make it do it here in Oklahoma unless they drop it out of a airplane. Anyway, my 2 cents worth, but one good thing about the surging is that it took my mind of that 2X4 they call a seat. Good grief!

Euro-Feejer · Sep 21, 2007

I just added my name to the bottom of the list. It was really annoying the first time it did the falter-surge-falter-surge thing on my first day trip with the new 07. It wasn't a very high altitude, but was after some fairly high speed gradual climbing, then some steeper slow windy climbing. The bike then seemed to work normal the next several day trips. I tried to reproduce it on a nearer hill, going just up past 2000 ft elevation, and it did a similar thing, though not as extreme. This time, the falter side wasn't as pronounced, but was obvious. I'll bring it up to the dealer at my first break-in oil change checkup coming up in a week or so. I want to try to reproduce it on a smaller Autobahn hill nearer the dealer.

tophog said:
I went thru the thread and tallied the posts so far. Obviously not scientific or anything ...but may help new readers from having to read the whole thread. I may have typo's, etc. but you get the general picture. 10 bikes in CA.
Owners who reported Surging problem

Reported: 30

Year State Login

2007 ??? Whichsideup

2006 AZ azsporttour

2006 CA co425

2006 CA DMC FJRRider

2006 CA Highlander

2007 CA CALSI

2007 CA dgerharter

2007 CA Gary D

2007 CA rgmax

2007 CA Silent

2007 CA Spunkmyer

2007 CA Superbee

2007 CO Gator1

2007 CO Medium Al

2007 CO seabiscuit

2007 CO Telluride

2006 FL one more bike

2007 NC JeffAshe

2007 NC millsaps

2007 NC sfla02si

2007 OR Farkles

2007 OR tophog

2007 TN fjr07

2007 TN TNT

2007 TX ELP JC

2006 UT Fjrvfr

2007 WA otubrab

2007 WA TruWrecks

2007 AGirl

2007 Germany DE FJR1300

Owners who have reported no problem

Reported: 9

Year State Login

2006 CA Gary

2006 CO BobG

2006 CT rivgar

ID headude

2007 Iowa okmac

2007 NC bent Aero

2006 NY v65

2007 phoneman91 CA

2006 TX bmwhd

Euro-Feejer · Sep 22, 2007

Did another test today to confirm that it's CHANGE in altitude, not altitude itself that is causing the problem (at least on my bike). Repeated yesterday's climb of just over 2000ft elevation (from 1,000 to 3,000, approx.). Also confirmed that stopping, turning motor off then on again cleared the problem (like rebooting a computer... soooooo glad MicroSoft doesn't make motor vehicles!). I read on the other forum that Yamaha is already at work on replacement circuit boards to deal with whatever is causing the problem... Is that news being heard in the USA also? Here's what I read on

https://www.fjrowners.ws/phpbb2/viewtopic.p...sc&start=45

"Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just spoken to Yamaha UK. The factory have apparently sent them an email this morning saying that they have developed a new reprogrammed ECU that will be fitted to affected bikes 'in the next few weeks'. Wouldn't commit to any more definite timescale than that as they are still being manufactured and then shipped from Japan."

Anybody in America getting this kind of hopeful news?

burnergold2B · Sep 22, 2007

Ed Sorbo said:
I will check this board a few times and try to answer any questions you may have. I’m troubled by the number of people who expect so little from there dealer and Yamaha and are so quick to criticize. I have found Yamaha to be honest and helpful, I hope my shop is viewed the same. Please include your full real name if you have any questions or comments for me.
Sincerely,

Ed Sorbo

Service manager

HYR

909 793-2833

Thanks Ed. I do not know Ed personally but can vouch for his incredible performance riding/racing as seen in RoadRacing World magazine, and in the results of Chris Ulrich in AMA SBK and SStk. Way to go Ed. Good read. I am of the same opinion, having researched this new "issue" of surging from the BMW oilhead fields.

I put 50K on a BMW oilhead twin, the R1100GS. Never had an issue with surging as I ran that bike higher in the RPMs, as I do all bikes. However, I did do quite a bit of shadetree wrenching on the other bikes in our BMW Club. Synching throttle bodies for dozens of them after a tune up. The TPS replacement was the fix for exactly one of those "surging" bikes, another was a fuel filter loaded with water, and all the rest were pretty much operator induced. That's not pointing a finger at folks, that's just the truth. My .02.

Say Ed, can we get a racing set of pipes for the FJR series from M4?

T Erickson

CCS #61ex mw

headude · Sep 23, 2007

Just to update the list--

I did experience surging this summer on vacation through CO. At times minor, sometimes major, depending upon the altitude variance experienced. I have a 2007 FJR with about 6500 miles on it.

clubber · Sep 23, 2007

DE FJR1300 said:
I just added my name to the bottom of the list. It was really annoying the first time it did the falter-surge-falter-surge thing on my first day trip with the new 07. It wasn't a very high altitude, but was after some fairly high speed gradual climbing, then some steeper slow windy climbing. The bike then seemed to work normal the next several day trips. I tried to reproduce it on a nearer hill, going just up past 2000 ft elevation, and it did a similar thing, though not as extreme. This time, the falter side wasn't as pronounced, but was obvious. I'll bring it up to the dealer at my first break-in oil change checkup coming up in a week or so. I want to try to reproduce it on a smaller Autobahn hill nearer the dealer.

tophog said:

I went thru the thread and tallied the posts so far. Obviously not scientific or anything ...but may help new readers from having to read the whole thread. I may have typo's, etc. but you get the general picture. 10 bikes in CA.
Owners who reported Surging problem

Reported: 30

Year State Login

2007 ??? Whichsideup

2006 AZ azsporttour

2006 CA co425

2006 CA DMC FJRRider

2006 CA Highlander

2007 CA CALSI

2007 CA dgerharter

2007 CA Gary D

2007 CA rgmax

2007 CA Silent

2007 CA Spunkmyer

2007 CA Superbee

2007 CO Gator1

2007 CO Medium Al

2007 CO seabiscuit

2007 CO Telluride

2006 FL one more bike

2007 NC JeffAshe

2007 NC millsaps

2007 NC sfla02si

2007 OR Farkles

2007 OR tophog

2007 TN fjr07

2007 TN TNT

2007 TX ELP JC

2006 UT Fjrvfr

2007 WA otubrab

2007 WA TruWrecks

2007 AGirl

2007 Germany DE FJR1300

2007 UT Clubber

Owners who have reported no problem

Reported: 9

Year State Login

2006 CA Gary

2006 CO BobG

2006 CT rivgar

ID headude

2007 Iowa okmac

2007 NC bent Aero

2006 NY v65

2007 phoneman91 CA

2006 TX bmwhd

I have added my name to this list as well.

Stan C.

Click to expand...

TheBlueStreak · Sep 24, 2007

Hey TruWrecks, Any more info on this? I see form the Canadian site that the 2008 has "Revised ECO steeing". Will Yamaha be giving new ECU's for GEN II bikes??

Rob

co425 · Sep 24, 2007

You gota love this straight off of the specs of the new 08 Fjr from Yama's web site. " Advanced fuel injection system is ideal for long-distance supersport-touring, delivering crisp, seamless throttle response in a variety of altitude/weather conditions." Gota love the last three words. But yet there is no problem with our bikes according to Yamaha but it seems they might have fixed it for the 08. Yippie. :angry2:

quietguy · Sep 24, 2007

Think I'll run right out and buy an '08... (yeah, right)

otubrab · Oct 8, 2007

Adventure Motorsports installed the new ECU to correct the altitude surging problem in my bike and I made an initial test run, so I thought I would report.

First, what was conveyed to me by my dealer and service manager:

1. The replacement ECU has changes to the absolute pressure sensing algorithms and/or settings.

2. The new ECU doesn't even have an official Yamaha part number yet, but dealers can nevertheless order it. Adventure Motorsports has installed the new ECU in at least two bikes--mine and Truwrecks, and I believe they have additional new ECUs.

3. Part of the delay in getting these out was getting them EPA approved.

4. The entire issue is now with Yamaha legal. As soon as they get a program put in place, and an "official" part number, the ECUs will move in higher volumes and all dealers will be able to get them.

5. As of this point, there is no general recall. ECUs will only be replaced as a consequence of direct customer requests.

My test run:

I want to emphasize that this was a quick 460 mile run and I don't consider it to be conclusive proof--yet. But, with this new ECU, I experienced no surging, stumbling, or failures to take a load (see my prior post, especially #78 about the Pikes Peak fiasco in this thread).

I left Monroe WA (elevation about 55 ft), rode to Steven's Pass summit (4065 ft), stopped at top, did not turn the engine off, and restarted several times in first, second, third, and even fourth gears--engine had full power on all starts. I rode back down to Skykomish (900ft) and to the summit again. No issues. I repeated the Skykomish-Steve's Pass leg 3 more times--no issues. I rode east to Winatchee and did the Cascade Loop, going over the North Cascade Highway (mighty foggy, mighty wet). Washington Pass and Rainy pass are both over 5000ft I think.

Rough sketch of elevation would look like this:

55ft ---> 4065ft ---> 900ft --->4065ft---> 900ft --->4065ft---> 900ft --->4065ft---> 900ft --->4065ft-->100ft(guess)--->

~5200ft-->2000ft(guess)--->5000ft(guess)--->lots of up 1000ft, down 1000ft --> back to 55ft. Total: 460 miles.

Again, no surging, stalling, engine failing to take load, engine ran strong and consistently entire trip.

Recommendations:

0. This "fixed" ECU was supposed to fix the problem, but I've only put 460 miles on mine and I know of no one else who has time on one. Perhaps TruWrecks will post his experiences relative to the new ECU. If you're conservative, you might want to wait for more actual user experience info; if you're adventurous I'd recommend you go for it now.

1. If you have a bike with this problem in the Seattle area, contact Adventure Motorsports service.

2. Outside of this area, you're going to have to work with your dealer service guys who (at this point in time) will need to chase a service rep down who knows the story--again, no "official" Yamaha part number yet, but it is a straight, no-cost, ECU change out.

quietguy · Oct 8, 2007

I had my dealer search for Service Bulletins... NONE from Yamaha.

Guess you gotta lodge a complaint, then force them to PHONE the damn outfit.

Odd huh?

FuzzyRider · Oct 8, 2007

I'm waiting for a few more positive reports before talking to my dealer about it. I had no surging on my '07 over Raton Pass, and Wolf Creek Pass but did have just a little problem on Lizard Head Pass. Since it's not a bad problem and since I don't live anywhere near high elevations I can hold off until I know there isn't a hidden problem with the new ECU.

TruWrecks · Oct 8, 2007

otubrab said:
But, with this new ECU, I experienced no surging, stumbling, or failures to take a load (see my prior post, especially #78 about the Pikes Peak fiasco in this thread).

I have not been able to reproduce the surging in any way yet. The fix is looking like the real deal! :yahoo:

BBQ · Oct 8, 2007

Re: altitude surging

Bought the bike 02/07. First experienced the surge while going over Washington pass the week-end it opened. Mentioned the surge to my Dealer and got the usual response. Next time I experienced the surge was on my Alaska adventure. Reported the surge to the Dealer again and was told to ride more agressively. Called Yamaha at the end of July to report the surge. Mentioned the surge to the Dealer yet again with predictable results.

Guese what My warranty expires 02/08 . . . sooo I wrote a letter to Yamaha Customer Service once again explaining the surge problem (and my sticky clutch issue) and sent it REGISTERED MAIL WITH RETURN RECEIPT telling them this was a safery issue and I wanted these issues well documented in the event that bad turned to worse. I gave them work and home phone numbers and asked them to call me.

Five days later the return receipt came back to me and two days after that I received a call at work form Luke (Yamaha Customer Service) telling me he had just got off the phone with my Dealer and that I should call the Dealer who would then order the parts and schedule the fix. The bike goes in this week for repairs. I will post again after a trip into the Cascades.

I was asked not to post on any forum but I feel what I am doing is the right thing.

BBQ

AGirl · Oct 9, 2007

Thanks to bro TWN for the head's up...

With over 25,000 miles on my 07 (including a 10 wk break riding a non-altitude surging bike), I am more than ready for the suffering & surging to subside. I'm currently on the road (in NH/VT area)... can ANY dealer do this ECU swap thing?? Do I choose one near my current location? The direction I'm heading?? Please let the end be near for this problem!

AGirl

P.S. In over 414 posts in this thread there is not a single photo... so I'll offer one from a few days ago (as found in my report: HERE):

painman · Oct 9, 2007

AGirl said:
Thanks to bro TWN for the head's up...
With over 25,000 miles on my 07 (including a 10 wk break riding a non-altitude surging bike), I am more than ready for the suffering & surging to subside. I'm currently on the road (in NH/VT area)... can ANY dealer do this ECU swap thing?? Do I choose one near my current location? The direction I'm heading?? Please let the end be near for this problem!

AGirl

P.S. In over 414 posts in this thread there is not a single photo... so I'll offer one from a few days ago (as found in my report: HERE):

AGirl, yes any dealer can do the fix on swaping out the ECU's. Problem being on the road might be the dealer would have to call and confirm problem with Yamaha and then order the part which could take a while....PM. <><

Wilddriver · Oct 9, 2007

Hi!

Here comes a report from Sweden, my -07 surged at a most terrifying way during a trip to the French Island Corse last summer. Altitudes from 800m (2400ft) and more was almost impossible to handle!

Yamaha Scandinavia are not going to do a safety recall, instead they will handle the exchange of ECU "case to case" which I think is outrageous! It means that You must contact your dealer yourself to get a ECU swap and no information will be sent out from Yamaha. The Swedish FJR-club ( in which I´m vice president) will go hard on Yamaha Scandinavia I can promise you!

TruWrecks · Oct 9, 2007

Wilddriver said:
Hi!Here comes a report from Sweden, my -07 surged at a most terrifying way during a trip to the French Island Corse last summer. Altitudes from 800m (2400ft) and more was almost impossible to handle!

Yamaha Scandinavia are not going to do a safety recall, instead they will handle the exchange of ECU "case to case" which I think is outrageous! It means that You must contact your dealer yourself to get a ECU swap and no information will be sent out from Yamaha. The Swedish FJR-club ( in which I´m vice president) will go hard on Yamaha Scandinavia I can promise you!

You're welcome to point them at this post for more information from your USA brethren:

FJR Surging Sticky

co425 · Oct 10, 2007

Anyone tried to get the fix for an 06 yet. I am playing the I'll check on it with yamaha game with my dealer. No luck yet. Just wondering if they are actually fixing the 06's too or not. If not ill never buy yamaha again thats for sure.

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