Killed my Engine

ionbeam · Jun 27, 2008

I talked with the dealer yesterday afternoon.

After a full inspection of my engine parts they didn't find anything wrong so they went farther than expected -- and didn't find anything wrong. Then they got the Yamaha tech involved and discovered the problem was most likely the front engine balancer. There is an unadvertised special where Yamaha put a SECOND balance alignment mark 120° from the real balance mark and that is where my balancer was set. Brian (da manager) is still a bit reserved about declaring my problem solved but that is all they could find. Because they went farther than expected they now need some gaskets that they hadn't ordered. At this point it looks like I will pick up my bike next Tuesday.

The balancer is a weight concentrically mounted on a shaft. There are alignment punch marks for the weight to gear alignment. There are alignment punch marks to position the gear/weight assembly in the engine block. Once the whole thing is put together there is the external alignment scale and lever arm. The two internal alignments mechanically get matched to the engine crank to provide the fundamental counter weight balancing. The external scale is a gear lash adjuster. I had looked at the external front and rear balancer adjustment scales and they were dead on. The problem seems to be that the internal weight was 120° out of sync with the crank.

The end may be in sight!!!

Bergs, if you are going to be at HCC this morning I may swing by. While I'm out I will check on my bike too because Brian is going to be out on vacation next week.

Fred W · Jun 27, 2008

Excellent news Alan. And it sounds like exactly what they were looking for. You may not be ready to claim victory, but when you find the one thng that you start out looking for it's really hard not to be upbeat.

It sucks badly that you've had to live with their mistake in the meantime. If they had just admitted the vibes were excessive immediately, instead of hoping that it (or you) would go away, you'd have had a smooth running bike all spring.

I'll bet they won't be bitten by that little "feature" again.

Geezer · Jun 27, 2008

ionbeam said:
I talked with the dealer yesterday afternoon.
After a full inspection of my engine parts they didn't find anything wrong so they went farther than expected -- and didn't find anything wrong. Then they got the Yamaha tech involved and discovered the problem was most likely the front engine balancer. There is an unadvertised special where Yamaha put a SECOND balance alignment mark 120° from the real balance mark and that is where my balancer was set. (snip)

It sounds like Yamaha likes to have additional marks on some of their parts. I had a similar thing happen to me when installing the cams. I aligned with the mark on the cam as described in the manual, and found one cam about 120 degrees out. The lobes aligned exactly with the other cam, like they used the same core shaft for both exhaust and intake and the timing alignment marks are cut before the lobes are ground. So I suspect they use the same balance shaft for multiple purposes and those purposes have different timing marks.

radman · Jun 27, 2008

And now that you've learned the secret

ionbeam · Jun 27, 2008

Geezer said:
ionbeam said:

I talked with the dealer yesterday afternoon.
After a full inspection of my engine parts they didn't find anything wrong so they went farther than expected -- and didn't find anything wrong. Then they got the Yamaha tech involved and discovered the problem was most likely the front engine balancer. There is an unadvertised special where Yamaha put a SECOND balance alignment mark 120° from the real balance mark and that is where my balancer was set. (snip)

Click to expand...

It sounds like Yamaha likes to have additional marks on some of their parts. I had a similar thing happen to me when installing the cams. I aligned with the mark on the cam as described in the manual, and found one cam about 120 degrees out. The lobes aligned exactly with the other cam, like they used the same core shaft for both exhaust and intake and the timing alignment marks are cut before the lobes are ground. So I suspect they use the same balance shaft for multiple purposes and those purposes have different timing marks.

If we were to take an engine apart then align everything using the 120° off alignment marks do you think we would end up with a French engine? :lol:

El Toro · Jun 27, 2008

ionbeam said:
I talked with the dealer yesterday afternoon.
After a full inspection of my engine parts they didn't find anything wrong so they went farther than expected -- and didn't find anything wrong. Then they got the Yamaha tech involved and discovered the problem was most likely the front engine balancer. There is an unadvertised special where Yamaha put a SECOND balance alignment mark 120° from the real balance The problem seems to be that the internal weight was 120° out of sync with the crank.

The end may be in sight!!!

As long as this ran out of balance, I would be concerned about eventual fatigue failure. I think you've got a case for Yamaha replacement of engine. This is clearly a big time defect in factory workmanship.

If they won't go for it, when you get it back, this one might be one to consider trading.

ionbeam · Jun 27, 2008

El Toro said:
As long as this ran out of balance, I would be concerned about eventual fatigue failure. I think you've got a case for Yamaha replacement of engine. This is clearly a big time defect in factory workmanship.
If they won't go for it, when you get it back, this one might be one to consider trading.

Your point isn't lost on me. It has already caused my AVCC bracket to crack and break off. Yamaha doesn't sell whole engines, they expect the dealers to repair or rebuild. Unfortunately, trading isn't possible right now. I plan to discuss my options with the dealership.

Joe2Lmaker · Jun 27, 2008

I'm glad to hear the end is near.

:crossed fingers:

Several weeks ago, it was a bummer reading that your wife was walking around making vroom vroom noises.

Hopefully you'll be riding together very soon.

ionbeam · Jun 27, 2008

In spite of my FJR being wounded wares we have ridden (BUZZZZZZZED along) for about 2k miles. If there was any chance that riding my bike like this would do some damage, the damage is done. When ya gotta ride, ya gotta ride.

chrisflock · Jun 27, 2008

Joe2Lmaker said:
I'm glad to hear the end is near.:crossed fingers:

Several weeks ago, it was a bummer reading that your wife was walking around making vroom vroom noises.

Hopefully you'll be riding together very soon.

I can understand that one. After my wife took the motorcycle course and before we got her a bike, she occasionally did the same thing.

Also, during the winter, I once caught her in the garage on my old bike (the FJR and her Ninja spent winter stored off-site) in slippers making engine noises.

I, of course, never did any such thing...

:blink:

jocko87 · Jun 29, 2008

ionbeam said:
El Toro said:

As long as this ran out of balance, I would be concerned about eventual fatigue failure. I think you've got a case for Yamaha replacement of engine. This is clearly a big time defect in factory workmanship.
If they won't go for it, when you get it back, this one might be one to consider trading.

Click to expand...

Your point isn't lost on me. It has already caused my AVCC bracket to crack and break off. Yamaha doesn't sell whole engines, they expect the dealers to repair or rebuild. Unfortunately, trading isn't possible right now. I plan to discuss my options with the dealership.

If you should end up needing an engine after all, let me know. Its to bad my timing wasn't a little better, I could have helped save a lot of headaches.

03HiYoSilver · Jun 29, 2008

jocko87 said:
If you should end up needing an engine after all, let me know. Its to bad my timing wasn't a little better, I could have helped save a lot of headaches.

I had asked my Regional Yamaha Tech Advisor several times about replacing a whole engine, each time he told me they don't offer WHOLE engines, just replacement parts.

I hope this all works out well for Ionbeam... it is tough to be patient during the summer season.

ionbeam · Jun 29, 2008

jocko87, I'm sorry that my engine disaster didn't sync up with your road disaster, :blink: I think :glare: You got the worst of it for sure. I hope you can find someone else in need of a good engine, they sure were in short supply when I was looking for one.

Shortly after I stopped looking for a good used engine and committed major $$$ to rebuild my engine several good used engines came on the market. That's life. The dealer is doing this second round of work on his dime under his shop warranty. This warranty is one thing that helped tip the scale for a rebuild. While I hate that I need the warranty, I'm glad I have it, and it is with a local dealer and not a salvage yard in California.

I stopped at the dealer last Friday and talked with the mechanic, and the front balancer was definitely installed with the weight 120 degrees out of sync. There are two punch marks on the weight and he got the wrong one aligned with the oil hole in the block. The mechanic is correct when he says that there was no documentation about there being TWO punch marks and no mention of which one to use. On the other hand, the mechanic hadn't noticed that there were two punch marks, he just went with the one that was facing up, nearly aligned with the oil passage. The wrong punch mark was up because the weight had spun down when the crank was removed. Again, that's life, and **** happens.

ionbeam · Jul 3, 2008

Edited: Killed duplicate post.

radman · Jul 3, 2008

What kind of oil did they put in it?

ionbeam · Jul 3, 2008

[SIZE=36pt]THE END IS NEAR[/SIZE]
Jaques (Jake) called around noon today to say that my bike is back together and ready for pickup. ZZZOOOOMMMMMM, hi Jaques, whatdidyoufind,howdoesitrun,wherearethekeys,I'mouttahere.

The problem was the alignment of the balancer. The engine went back together fine, getting it in the frame was a struggle this time. The last time I picked up the bike it was missing fasteners, this time they were all there and the hardware that was buzzed out was replaced. I pushed the starter and.... (big intake breath).... it started right up, sounded normal, the mirrors were clear and the ground did not shake. A couple of twists of the throttle and it was evident that they had fixed the problem. This time they reconnected all my farkles (with some editorial comments about all the **** that I have installed). Gear on, and gone.

The bike rides fine, all seems to be well. The rattling hardware under the tupperware seems to have been fixed without having to ask them to go after it. The engine has some buzz within the range of normal, I'm not concerned about it at this point, and will address when I have time. The engine seems to run well and has no leaks so far. The accursed daily thunderblasters will be rolling over us in the next couple of hours so I won't have long to test ride it today.

Unless I find something unexpected as I put some miles on it I'm ready to say that it is finally, completely fixed, and I'm happy with the belated outcome. The dealer has asked (demanded) that I come in or call on Monday and let them know if I have *any* issues and to let them know in detail how it is running. Ahhhhh, life is good.

Thank you all for listening, for your suggestions and for your kind offers of help!

[SIZE=24pt]Let's Ride! [/SIZE]

SkooterG · Jul 3, 2008

Alan, I can't even begin to express how happy I am for you. I hope the weeks ahead for you are filled with huge ****-eating grins as you and your prized FJR get re-acquainted once again.

The worst is behind you. Rejoice! And ride, ride, ride....................

evilmedic13 · Jul 3, 2008

:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Glad you're back on the road,life is definitely better now,isn't it?

HaulinAshe · Jul 3, 2008

ionbeam said:
The problem was the alignment of the balancer.

Ahemmmm!!!

Do I get a free basket of nachos and salsa for being right on that one???

Hmmmmm????

I promise to share!

Glad you both are back together.

Jeff

03HiYoSilver · Jul 3, 2008

Ionbeam,

This is the story I waiting on to hear! Glad things are working well for you...enjoy your summer.

Killed my Engine

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