I'm a little Panicked

daddykevin · May 23, 2012

Ok fella's, here's the situation.

2007 FJR, 30k on the clock. I ride daily on an 11 mile commute. I have no modifications to the bike.

This morning I started the bike, as always, no issues there. Pulled into the driveway and noticed that the headlight was not on. I tried switching to low-beam, nothing. I replaced both bulbs 3 months ago. Turn signals work very rapidly, no horn, windshield won't go up, brake lights work, all dash and instrument lights work.

Shut the bike off, turned key off, then back on. Bike starts up, but still no lights.

Any ideas before I go to the dealer?

Any ideas or comments will be appreciated!!!

Ignacio · May 23, 2012

daddykevin said:
Any ideas before I go to the dealer?

Any ideas or comments will be appreciated!!!

Ground Spider? Go look at the top of this section that you posted for it.

Bounce · May 23, 2012

corrosion in connectors

spider bite (grounding issues)

corrosion in switches

phroenips · May 23, 2012

Have you had the grounding recall performed? https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=139216

03HiYoSilver · May 23, 2012

Here is a link to the Spiders:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=126635

Check your fuses too.

Good Luck with your fix.

bramfrank · May 23, 2012

Because you have issues with multiple devices it isn't likely to be switchgear, though the connectors at the end of the cable can have corroded grounds (just as bad as a bad spider in terms of issues). But you have functional turn indicators, but no turn signals, so THAT isn't the explanation

And if the recall HAS been performed, it doesn't mean that the main wiring harness isn't at fault again. Also bear in mind that if your harness wasn't replaced they installed a single jumper cable to bypass the S4 spider - but we've seen issues with other spiders, and increasing the voltage to the S4 will push up the current through the other spiders along the way, exacerbating the problems.

Your symptoms exonerate the S4, which was the most common-to-burn of the spiders.

There are 2 spiders that were NOT changed that HAVE exhibited symptoms and will kill your nacelle electrics. It sounds to me like you have a burned S6 or S7 (I am guessing S6, though I've never seen a list of what S2 and S5 do, so I am not willing to rule them out just yet.- if you do (and I think you do) then take some pics and file a complaint with the NHTSA, carefully explaining that this is a VERY dangerous issue (imagine losing your lights at night on a twisty road?) that was NOT resolved with the previous recall campaign. I also suggest mentioning that you aren't the first to suffer the problem.

People can STILL be killed because of Yamaha's unwillingness to properly and completely resolve the spider problem.

twistedcricket · May 23, 2012

Wow, before jumping to conclusions could we, I dunno, maybe ask some simpler questions?

Were you wearing gloves when you installed the lights? The oils from your skin hitting the bulbs will shorten the life of the bulbs. Are you sure you had both lights the previous few days, or maybe it was just one? If it was just one, that generally causes the other bulb to get a lot of extra juice (they're in series, I think) and will shorten the life of your bulb.

Or, get on the bandwagon, panic and worry. Your call.

bramfrank · May 23, 2012

With respect, changing bulbs would not take out the motor for the windshield or horn.

bramfrank · May 23, 2012

And, prexumably he'd been riding at some point in the previous 3 months and would have noticed ther lack of windshield control and hors . . . .

The bulbs are in parallel, by the way.

The reason the second does tend to blow soon after the first is because the voltage drop in the wiring harness (because Yamaha uses too-thin wiring) is reduced - and since the other bulbs is usually as worn as the first, it goes quickly with the increased voltage.

Canadian FJR · May 23, 2012

The exact same thing happened to Charlie in New Hampshire this past weekend. We figure it is a grounding issues for the main relay. I hope he posts up his findings. He runs a 2005 model.

Canadian FJR

BigOgre · May 23, 2012

Canadian FJR said:
The exact same thing happened to Charlie in New Hampshire this past weekend. We figure it is a grounding issues for the main relay. I hope he posts up his findings. He runs a 2005 model.

Canadian FJR

He found he could simply solve the problem by going home and getting another bike.

(Btw - had a really great time Scott. Looking forward to the next run.)

Harald · May 23, 2012

Hi DaddyKevin. Your failure sure sounds like a ground spider failure like the one I experienced on my 07 and that I reported on in THIS THREAD. I'm not sure if you've had the spider recall done, but any dealer can check the computer to see if your bike has been done. If it hasn't been done, it's a free "fix."

The problem with the recall is that it doesn't address the spider that failed on my bike and some other FJR owners. If your failure is not fixed by the recall (ie, you have a different spider that failed), please post the results on THIS THREAD AND report your failure at Safercar.org . Make sure to clearly state that the failed grounding connector is not the one being addressed by NHTSA Campaign Number: 11V-338.

daddykevin · May 23, 2012

Wow! All of this is great advice!!

***UPDATE***

I rode the bike at lunch today, it started right up, but with the exact same symptoms. I started riding and after about 15 minutes, the headlights were on, turn signals came back, windshield operated correctly.

Does this sound like the "Ground Spider" that everyone seems to indicate? Additionally, how many of these are there?

I'm a decent mechanic, but a lousy electician, where do I start? Or, do I just take it to the dealer?

Thanks in advance to everyone!!

escapefjrtist · May 23, 2012

Check all the obvious stuff first, great advice so far.

IIRC, there are seven spiders and they are easy to inspect. Using previous threads mentioned for reference, lift the tank and remove side panels and the grounding spiders are pretty easy to find. Any sign of over-heating will also be obvious, with burned wires and melted plastic caps.

Good luck!

--G

Aasland · May 23, 2012

daddykevin said:
I'm a decent mechanic, but a lousy electician, where do I start? Or, do I just take it to the dealer?

Call the dealer with your VIN and ask if all the recalls have been done, particular the one which relates to augmenting the ground paths in the wiring harness. If it hasn't then they'll take care of it for you. If that recall has been done, check back for more advice (or give your wallet to the dealer and let them figure it out).

daddykevin · May 25, 2012

UPDATE

Called the dealer and based on the VIN they indicate that the recall has been completed. Really? The bike still exhibits exactly the symptoms that have been described! Is it possible that the recall wasn't completed? Or, perhaps that the recall was only partially completed? Can I talk to Yamaha to see if they will authorize a complete wiring harness replacement? Who do I call?

Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it starts right up, and sometimes it's like the kickstand safety switch is overriding the start button . . . just nothing. So, I wiggle and prod, and cuss, push the button, and then . . . it comes to life.

And so it continues. At least the bike hasn't died during a ride, yet . . . yet.

bramfrank · May 25, 2012

Actually, it does NOT exhibit the symptoms that the recall was designed to deal with - your symptoms are related to a different connector.

The real problem is that the recall was half-a**ed and doesn't resolve all of the potential problems - in fact, I believe I already mentioned that it can exacerbate the problems with other spiders because of increased current flow ttrough the one they tried to fix.

I suspect that even if they did the 'install only a jumper' recall because the S4 wasn't far enough gone to replace the harness, it might continue to deteriorate - however your symptoms point to S6 and S7 (or perhaps one of the 2 undecoded ones).

I'd open her up and take a look. It takes a half hour.

daddykevin · May 25, 2012

bramfrank said:
Actually, it does NOT exhibit the symptoms that the recall was designed to deal with - your symptoms are related to a different connector.

The real problem is that the recall was half-a**ed and doesn't resolve all of the potential problems - in fact, I believe I already mentioned that it can exacerbate the problems with other spiders because of increased current flow ttrough the one they tried to fix.

I suspect that even if they did the 'install only a jumper' recall because the S4 wasn't far enough gone to replace the harness, it might continue to deteriorate - however your symptoms point to S6 and S7 (or perhaps one of the 2 undecoded ones).

I'd open her up and take a look. It takes a half hour.

Well, I just spoke to the Service Dept. at Stadium Yamaha, they were very helpful, by the way. He indicated that they've done "hundreds" of the recalls and that they've never had to replace the entire harness because none of them were "that far gone". He said that he'd need to put the bike on their diagnostic system and see if they couldn't find the trouble. The problem is that they're 2 weeks before I can get the bike in. Crap.

He also indicated that it could be the ECU.

Whatever, I'm not very good at this part, but I guess I'll try and find the damned "spiders" myself and start checking them out.

Charlie Hoss · May 28, 2012

BigOgre said:
Canadian FJR said:

The exact same thing happened to Charlie in New Hampshire this past weekend. We figure it is a grounding issues for the main relay. I hope he posts up his findings. He runs a 2005 model.

Canadian FJR

Click to expand...

He found he could simply solve the problem by going home and getting another bike.

(Btw - had a really great time Scott. Looking forward to the next run.)

It's good to have a back-up bike, especially if it's a ZX14! I thought this was supposed to be a Gen 2 problem. I had the exact same problems with my 05. On the ride home, the turn indicator lights on the dash were glowing slightly, which tells me there was a bad ground somewhere. I read this thread and lots of related ones, ripped into it again. I had just finished putting it all back together after doing the 2nd valve check and CCT replacement. I had the state inspection done just 3 hours earlier and everything was fine. This time I took everything but the tail section off and started looking for Spyders. I guess the Gen 2 is different because I only found one that was only ground wires. Plenty of spiders on the garage floor, tho! Never mind that. I took apart every connector I could find, looking for corrosion and greasing them up. Only found two that even slightly resembled corrosion. It looks like the GEN1s have the grounds included in the same connectors with the rest of the wiring. When I ran out of connectors to grease, I put the battery back in and fired it up. EVERYTHING WORKS NORMALLY!!! I hate when that happens. I want to find an obvious cause. Bike is all back together and running perfectly. I think the problem is like in a TV remote when it quits working but the batteries are fine. The connections get a little stale. The fix is to turn or remove and replace the batteries. Same here, I bet I renewed a bad connection by opening and reconnecting the fittings. I hope that is the end of this problem, the only one I ever had with this bike in nearly 62,000 miles. Now I should be ready for NAFO. I love the Ninja and all that but not sure I want to ride it to BC and back.

I'm a little Panicked

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