An interesting AE exercise

BwanaDik · Feb 14, 2009

Got to thinkin about this after I read some discussion about how to shut off your bike, with the kill switch or with the key. I usually use the key. Combined with the idea of coasting into a gas station having just run out of fuel.

So what would happen with an AE if you hit the kill switch while underway? Would the clutch disengage immediately? Would the bike roll to a stop with the clutch engaged all the way down to a stop (a sure tip over here)? I've noticed that when I'm in the drive thru bank line and I kill the engine with the kill switch, the clutch remains disengaged and I can roll around with the engine off.

I was actually hoping it would disengage so I could coast for a while, just like pulling in the clutch when running out of gas. Another totally academic thought was there might be some way to push start it (yea I know, all the obvious problems about having a dead battery and the electric clutch)

So I removed the side bags, donned full ATGATT, and went for it down my street. My neighbor was out so he could help me pick the ol' gal up if something unexpected happened and I dumped it.

So, happy to say there was no drama involved. When I hit the kill switch in 2nd gear at about 25 MPH, all that happened is it slowed down as usual under engine braking and the clutch disengaged at about 5 MPH, again as usual. I could also kill the engine and then restart it by turning the kill switch back on while still decelerating. Simply accelerated away. I was checking this because you have to hold the brake on to start an AE (do you guys with manual clutches have to do that to?).

If you try this at home, DON'T use the key to kill the engine. I'm almost certain that the "rest" or "off" position for the clutch is "engaged" so I'm sure the clutch will remain engaged to a full stop. That's why you can't move the bike when it's off and in gear, a nice anti-theft feaure by the way.

So what do us AE guys do when we run out of gas? I guess just coast down to a stop and start walking. Anybody here with an AE ever run out of gas?

mcatrophy · Feb 14, 2009

BwanaDik said:
Got to thinkin ...

Always dangerous … :cap:

BwanaDik said:
...If you try this at home, DON'T use the key to kill the engine. I'm almost certain that the "rest" or "off" position for the clutch is "engaged" so I'm sure the clutch will remain engaged to a full stop. That's why you can't move the bike when it's off and in gear, a nice anti-theft feature by the way....

Not sure your logic is right. The clutch engages only after about 3 seconds after BOTH the bike has stopped moving AND the ignition is turned off.

So in the same way that some ignition powered functions remain after the key is turned off at least for a while (normal clutch re-engagement and screen position return are two obvious ones) I suspect MamaYamaha thought of this scenario, and the clutch will probably behave much as in your kill switch experiment.

I might try this next time I'm out in a traffic-free area. But "traffic free" round here doesn't occur all that often.

uke:

radman · Feb 14, 2009

The kill switch shuts off the fuel pump-no more. So it stands to reason all systems would operate as expected. The kill switch operates the way it does for 2 reasons-it kills the motor, but it also prevents the pump from shoving fuel out of a ruptured line should an accident have caused said rupture. The kill switches way of functioning is handy, because if doing work on the bike needing ignition on for whatever reason, having the kill switch off stops the power hog pump from operating, but everything else is good to go.

Beamer Reamer · Feb 14, 2009

Radman - thanks for the explanation on that. I was working on the bike all day and the fuel pump was driving me nuts. I didn't know I could toggle the kill switch and still do everything else. It also would have saved me from putting the charger on the battery to get her fired up again. That was good info.

BwanaDik · Feb 14, 2009

Indeed. On older bikes with carburators then, the kill switch grounds the ignition but on newer bikes with FI, the kill switch stops the fuel pump and the ignition is still hot?

Capt. Bob · Feb 15, 2009

BwanaDik said:
I was checking this because you have to hold the brake on to start an AE (do you guys with manual clutches have to do that to?).

Negative.

Fred W · Feb 15, 2009

From FSM:

Attention• Do not turn the main switch to “OFF” while the vehicle is moving, otherwise the electrical systems will

be switched off, including the YCC-S system, which may result in loss of control or an accident. Make

sure that the vehicle is stopped before turning the main switch to “OFF”.

• The clutch will be engaged for a few seconds after the engine is stopped using the main switch if the

transmission is not in neutral. This means that the vehicle cannot be moved by pushing or pulling it.

To move the vehicle, turn the main switch to “ON”, and then apply the front or rear brake to disengage

the clutch. A click will be heard when the clutch is disengaged"

mcatrophy · Feb 16, 2009

OK, I tried the "Ignition Switch Off" test this morning. Similar test to BwanaDik's, that is second gear, about 20 mph, turn off ignition switch.

Result? Exactly as BwanaDik described for the kill switch, that is it slowed under engine braking until about 5 mph, then the clutch disengaged, the bike continued with no engine braking.

So now we all know

turbodave_98 · Feb 16, 2009

have on the slab. several times hit my master kill switch while trying to engage my cruise control. bike engine just stops without and disruption to forward movement or control issues. turned switch back on and engine resumes quickly.

BwanaDik · Feb 16, 2009

mcatrophy said:
OK, I tried the "Ignition Switch Off" test this morning. Similar test to BwanaDik's, that is second gear, about 20 mph, turn off ignition switch.
Result? Exactly as BwanaDik described for the kill switch, that is it slowed under engine braking until about 5 mph, then the clutch disengaged, the bike continued with no engine braking.

So now we all know

Did you come to a full stop with the switch off and wait for a couple of seconds? Did the clutch re-engage as normal when the ignition switch is off and the bike is stopped? Good to know the clutch disengages in either case.

I'm on about this because sometime in the distant past, I had to stop a larger bike without being able to pull in the clutch for some reason (can't remember the details but sure remember the results! Probably holding a twelve pack of bottles in my lap

). Those last few feet and last couple of crank revolutions are a real lurch fest and the bike can come to an extremely abrupt stop in one or two crank revolutions.

mcatrophy · Feb 17, 2009

BwanaDik said:
...Did you come to a full stop with the switch off and wait for a couple of seconds? Did the clutch re-engage as normal when the ignition switch is off and the bike is stopped? Good to know the clutch disengages in either case.

I'm on about this because sometime in the distant past, I had to stop a larger bike without being able to pull in the clutch for some reason (can't remember the details but sure remember the results! Probably holding a twelve pack of bottles in my lap ). Those last few feet and last couple of crank revolutions are a real lurch fest and the bike can come to an extremely abrupt stop in one or two crank revolutions.

I didn't allow time for the clutch to re-engage whilst stationary. I did the test in a car park without too much time before traffic would want the gangway I was in, but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the clutch would re-engage normally when stopped after its 2 or 3 seconds.

As for the "conventional" clutch juddering to a halt, yes, I did that more than once on my Trophy. I simply couldn't hold the clutch in (which is why I have this electrically operated clutch now), and failed to find neutral when coming to rest. It was most unsettling.

I prefer the 12-pack reason, though ^_^ .

hellcreep · Feb 24, 2009

BwanaDik said:
Got to thinkin about this after I read some discussion about how to shut off your bike, with the kill switch or with the key. I usually use the key. Combined with the idea of coasting into a gas station having just run out of fuel.
So what would happen with an AE if you hit the kill switch while underway? Would the clutch disengage immediately? Would the bike roll to a stop with the clutch engaged all the way down to a stop (a sure tip over here)? I've noticed that when I'm in the drive thru bank line and I kill the engine with the kill switch, the clutch remains disengaged and I can roll around with the engine off.

I was actually hoping it would disengage so I could coast for a while, just like pulling in the clutch when running out of gas. Another totally academic thought was there might be some way to push start it (yea I know, all the obvious problems about having a dead battery and the electric clutch)

So I removed the side bags, donned full ATGATT, and went for it down my street. My neighbor was out so he could help me pick the ol' gal up if something unexpected happened and I dumped it.

So, happy to say there was no drama involved. When I hit the kill switch in 2nd gear at about 25 MPH, all that happened is it slowed down as usual under engine braking and the clutch disengaged at about 5 MPH, again as usual. I could also kill the engine and then restart it by turning the kill switch back on while still decelerating. Simply accelerated away. I was checking this because you have to hold the brake on to start an AE (do you guys with manual clutches have to do that to?).

If you try this at home, DON'T use the key to kill the engine. I'm almost certain that the "rest" or "off" position for the clutch is "engaged" so I'm sure the clutch will remain engaged to a full stop. That's why you can't move the bike when it's off and in gear, a nice anti-theft feaure by the way.

So what do us AE guys do when we run out of gas? I guess just coast down to a stop and start walking. Anybody here with an AE ever run out of gas?

I hit the kill for the first time by accident moving down the highway a couple of days ago on my AE. As stated, the motor cut off and I was able to turn on the hazards as I moved from the left lane to the shoulder. I was glad when I discovered it was just the kill-switch I'd hit and not something more throttle-nefarious!

--hellcreep

fjrindy · Mar 1, 2009

got a little two aggressive in checking my mileage and ran her out of gas. non-eventful.

kulwen · Mar 9, 2009

As a AE owner who suffered a ignition failure at 70mph in 5th gear I can confirm the clutch will not lock the rear wheel if the bike shuts down.

There is however a need to get off the road in a hurry. Once the bike comes to a stop the clutch will prevent the bike from being rolled off the road, and out of traffic.

palerider · Mar 9, 2009

John T said:
As a AE owner who suffered a ignition failure at 70mph in 5th gear I can confirm the clutch will not lock the rear wheel if the bike shuts down.
There is however a need to get off the road in a hurry. Once the bike comes to a stop the clutch will prevent the bike from being rolled off the road, and out of traffic.

Well that's not good.

kulwen · Mar 9, 2009

palerider said:
John T said:

As a AE owner who suffered a ignition failure at 70mph in 5th gear I can confirm the clutch will not lock the rear wheel if the bike shuts down.
There is however a need to get off the road in a hurry. Once the bike comes to a stop the clutch will prevent the bike from being rolled off the road, and out of traffic.

Click to expand...

Well that's not good.

With a ignition failure the bike loses all power, so the electric shift does not work.

If, someone runs out of gas or somethign along those lines it would be easy to get the bike in neutral.

Fred W · Mar 9, 2009

That sucks badly. Any system like this that doesn't have a fail safe mode makes me uneasy.

Just one more reason to keep the clutch lever if you can still physically manage one.

Brodie · Mar 9, 2009

It's not impossible to move an AE bike that had a power failure with it in gear, in fact it's quite doable. The heim joint on the shift linkage is sitting right there for you to push forward a couple of times to manually shift into neutral. It's not easy, but it can be done.

It does make it harder to roll away when in gear if the thief hasn't a clue about the "clutchless" bike.

hellcreep · Mar 9, 2009

Brodie said:
It's not impossible to move an AE bike that had a power failure with it in gear, in fact it's quite doable. The heim joint on the shift linkage is sitting right there for you to push forward a couple of times to manually shift into neutral. It's not easy, but it can be done.
It does make it harder to roll away when in gear if the thief hasn't a clue about the "clutchless" bike.

+99

My bike confuses thieves.

An interesting AE exercise

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