TC tensioner replaced (07 slapper)

FYI my 07 needed timing chain tensioner

I have had some Timing Chain noise this past summer which got worse at the end of the season. I took it to dealer so they could hear it and they said it sounded like chain noise, and it could be a bad tensioner. I have YES warranty, so I asked if they could fix it for me. They said they would call Yamaha to see if they were having any issues with tensioner. The dealer told me that Yamaha said they were not having any issues with tensioner, so dealer told me it may be normal for that engine or it maybe a stuck adjuster and I could try to put more tension on it. :glare: (they may have done more if I was willing to leave bike there but I'm not sure. also they know I like to do my own work)

After a few months I went back to dealer and told them it was getting worse and I didn't think it was normal. I get along with the service manager very well and he knows I'm a tech. By now it's winter and I can't get the bike to them, so I asked him what I could do to confirm or deny the tensioner. He told me to take the cap screw out and turn the tensioner screw counter clockwise a little while engine is running to put a little more tension on the chain and that should cure it. When I did that the noise went away, but as soon as I took the screw driver out of the tensioner it went back were it was and started making noise again. I told him this and he said the tensioner was bad, and he got me a new one under warranty.

I put the new tensioner in and no more noise. All is good now. :yahoo:

Sorry for the long story,but I have 2 reasons for sharing;

#1- I'm very surprised my TC tensioner was bad already, and I haven't heard of any other failures this early.

#2- YES warranty is nice, and I have a good re pore with my servicing dealer, but it seems like if you don't have a major issue Yamaha doesn't want to fix it without some arguing.

My .02 cents

A.C.

Wow, that is early - how many miles when the noise started?

Glad your dealership buddy took care of you.

Jagermeister said:

Wow, that is early - how many miles when the noise started?
Glad your dealership buddy took care of you.

Click to expand...

I think it was around 5000 miles the first time I heard it, but it would come & go.

At around 10000 miles it was more often

At 15000 it was always making noise at idle with warm engine.

The noise would go away as soon as you raise the RPM, it only did it at idle.

My dealer has been good to me. I help him with his boat and he helps me with my bike. I'm a certifiable certified Mercruiser tech.

road runner said:

FYI my 07 needed timing chain tensione
I put the new tensioner in and no more noise. All is good now. :yahoo:

A.C.

Click to expand...

is the tensioner on the '07 same as '04? anyone know?

McRuss said:

is the tensioner on the '07 same as '04? anyone know?

Click to expand...

AFAIK, there's been no updates/supercessions for the FJR cam chain tensioner.

A quick check of part #s shows the same part # for an '03 as an '08: 5JW-12210-01-00.

road runner said:

#1- I'm very surprised my TC tensioner was bad already, and I haven't heard of any other failures this early.#2- YES warranty is nice, and I have a good re pore with my servicing dealer, but it seems like if you don't have a major issue Yamaha doesn't want to fix it without some arguing.

Click to expand...

The camchain tensioner is one of the 'weak' parts on the FJR. Many, have gone bad and needed replacing. Still, your mileage is very low for the CCT to have crapped out on you. Guess you really got a 'bad one'.

I think it's standard for Yamaha to be a bit skeptical when an owner hears a 'noise'. Especially since you had such low mileage. In the end, they fixed it, that's what's important. And no matter how good the rapore you have with the SM is, you need to realize that any decision Yamaha makes regarding warranty work is based on the information they receive from the SM/tech that is working on your bike. In other words, if the dealer tells Yamaha in no uncertain terms, "there is a problem with this FJR and it needs to be fixed", then I bet Yamaha will be quick to fix it. And remember, they are a corporation, and not perfect.

Here's a curious question: If I want to find out what that chain noise sounds like, for future reference, can I bump the tenioner adjust clockwise just a hair with the engine running? (Then put it back, of course.) My Feej sounds fine right now, but I sure would like to be able to tell bad sounds from other bad sounds down the road.

kolonial72 said:

Here's a curious question: If I want to find out what that chain noise sounds like, for future reference, can I bump the tenioner adjust clockwise just a hair with the engine running? (Then put it back, of course.) My Feej sounds fine right now, but I sure would like to be able to tell bad sounds from other bad sounds down the road.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can, but should you?

[SIZE=36pt]NO!!![/SIZE]
And that kolonial72 is the voice of experience speaking directly to you, I'm in a position to offer sound advice on this idea. Don't mess with the cam chain tensioner unless you have a month in which you don't want to ride and have >$5k to spend frivolously.

ionbeam said:

kolonial72 said:

Here's a curious question: If I want to find out what that chain noise sounds like, for future reference, can I bump the tenioner adjust clockwise just a hair with the engine running? (Then put it back, of course.) My Feej sounds fine right now, but I sure would like to be able to tell bad sounds from other bad sounds down the road.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can, but should you?

[SIZE=36pt]NO!!![/SIZE]
And that kolonial72 is the voice of experience speaking directly to you, I'm in a position to offer sound advice on this idea. Don't mess with the cam chain tensioner unless you have a month in which you don't want to ride and have >$5k to spend frivolously.

Click to expand...

C'mon, Alan....quit parsing words.

kolonial72, I know it pains Ionbeam to relive his "cam chain tensioner" story, so I'll point you to the truth:

CLICKY

Poor Ion, the reminders of the nitemare go on and on...gonna make him paranoid scitzo, I tell ya...

ionbeam said:

kolonial72 said:

Here's a curious question: If I want to find out what that chain noise sounds like, for future reference, can I bump the tenioner adjust clockwise just a hair with the engine running? (Then put it back, of course.) My Feej sounds fine right now, but I sure would like to be able to tell bad sounds from other bad sounds down the road.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can, but should you?

[SIZE=36pt]NO!!![/SIZE]
And that kolonial72 is the voice of experience speaking directly to you, I'm in a position to offer sound advice on this idea. Don't mess with the cam chain tensioner unless you have a month in which you don't want to ride and have >$5k to spend frivolously.

Click to expand...

Ouch. While I was hoping to get some advice on this question, I'm terribly sorry that the advice had to come at such a cost to you. Is all okay now?

Message recieved loud and clear - don't fidgit with cam chain tensioner.

Man, when roadrunner wrote of adjusting his chain tensioner while bike was running, I thought of Ionbeam's adventure

and felt a sense of impending doom.

Glad it worked out for you RR.

Dudewado said:

Man, when roadrunner wrote of adjusting his chain tensioner while bike was running, I thought of Ionbeam's adventureand felt a sense of impending doom.

Glad it worked out for you RR.

Click to expand...

Actually, that is a common diagnostic practice to determine if the noise one is hearing is the cam chain and/or tensioner. It was done on my FJR as well as many others - by a dealer tech. The key is to ADD tension to it. Not take it away. Reducing tension, or retracting the tensioner could be a very dangerous thing, as ionbeam so emphatically stated.

If adding tension (or extending the tensioner) makes the noise go away, you know you either have a 1) bad tensioner, or 2) a worn cam chain, or 3) Both.

Thanks for the clarification.

I looked at Ion's saga again, and what you say makes sense.

(To someone working 6PM to 6AM, on a Saturday night!)

I just hit 40,000 Miles on my '03,( I know; lightweight), and so far my motor is quiet and happy.

I used to think that was high miles on a bike, but yours and other's experience with the FJR makes me confident to

keep this bike for a long time.

For anyone considering doing ANYTHING that involves the CCT, a word of advice: you will need a long shaft, flat bade screwdriver with a very small blade. I had a great deal of trouble releasing the tension when I did my valve adjustment this past weekend and it was because I could not see what size screwdriver to use and was not getting deep enough into the CCT to contact the 'screw' slot. I ended up using an old screw driver and a grinder to make one that would fit and still had a long enough shaft.

While my motorcycle was running ok, but with a lot of cam chain noise I fiddled with the cam chain tensioner which led to the very long saga of my engine repair. Let me be clear, what I did with my CCT on that fateful fall day was exactly per the FSM, the bad outcome was due to a failed CCT.

After the dust settled I was able to get into my bad CCT to see what the real failure mode is in a CCT. During the past year I have been able to look at several new & used CCTs and it is clear that they are not all born equal. There is some manufacturing variability that seriously affects the final plunger force. I have had one nearly new CCT that was just as flaccid as my 40k failed unit and a very well used CCT that was just as strong as a new CCT.

The following is an edited post from another thread:

If you are hearing noises or think the CCT needs attention it is because the cam chain is wearing, resulting in elongation. The CCT is a 'make-up' device intended to re-tension the chain but it is not intended to prevent the cam chain from ever needing to be replaced....

...The cam chain and tesnioner are some of the least expensive parts and yet some of the hardest to change. Technically, the chain does not stretch, it wears. The chain can be measured and should be changed if the length is too long. [but since it is out, and it will already be at least partly worn, and it's in your hand and inexpensive, why not change it.]

The cam chain slippers appear to be pretty robust based on my huge sample of one set The slipper that works with the cam chain tensioner was the only one that showed any sign of wear and that was very slight. Unless you get the light just right you can't tell the new one from the old one...

The cam chain tensioner is a touchy feely part without absolute specs. If you have it out and in hand you might as well put in a new unit. [This little guy is a MOTHER to get out, change it while you can so you don't have to do this again for a very long time.] When comparing a new tensioner to the old tensioner you should be feeling for spring tension differences with plunger extended between 50% and 75% of the total plunger length, there should be smooth operation of the plunger with uniform tension....

...The total cam chain tensioner travel is ~1.25 inches. The tensioner shafts have all had shiny wear marks around the 5/8” extension point to the final wear marks around the 7/8” extension point. When the cam chain was new, the tensioner shaft was extended 5/8”. [Edit: When my old CCT] shaft is released to the 5/8 length I would guess the spring tension is roughly 200 grams. When the tensioner is extended to the 7/8” point I would guess the spring tension is not more than 20 grams. The more worn the chain became, the less able the tensioner was to take up the slack. The important area to compare spring tension is from just less than 1/2 way extended to ~3/4 way extended. As a cam chain wears you would like the tensioner to have good pressure on the cam chain slipper to reduce slack.

ahamlin01 sent me his old CCT and his CCT had the same extension and wear that mine had --but-- his worn CCT had more tension than mine did along the whole plunger travel.

I was surprised to find that the spring in the CCT is not in compression, it is wound up like a clock when the CCT is assembled. The following really needs pixs to save a lot of words (still no pixs).

The CCT rectangular rod goes through an end cap that is retained by a circlip. The end cap has 4 tabs, with one tab wider than the others to force alignment of the rod within the CCT body. When putting the CCT together the rod has to be fully extended making it too long to let the end cap tabs reach down into the slots in the CCT body. As you turn the tensioner screw to retract the rod it winds up the spring. As the rod shortens it lets the end cap tabs engage the slots with enough room for the circlip to slip into the ring groove. Depending on how I hold the rod and how deeply the spiral shaft is initially engaged into the center of the rod, the spring tension can end up anyplace from almost nothing to very strong after the circlip is installed. The key point here is that this assembly operation is variable and has a direct relationship to the final spring force of the CCT. During assembly, one turn + or - of the tensioner rod & end cap makes a significant difference in the final spring force. Two full turns is like night and day in spring force. Because the end cap can only fit one way it forces the tensioner rod to complete a full 360 degree rotation between end cap tab engagements. How far the spiral shaft was initially engaged onto the rod will determine the actual number of turns of the rod before the circlip can be installed which determines final spring force.



The Engineering part of me wants to believe that there is a minimum and maximum spring force specification that falls within one full turn of the retraction screw. The Manufacturing Engineer in me wants to believe they have a fixture which will always results in a consistent number of turns before the circlip goes on. The Quality part of me wants to believe that all the CCTs are tested to verify conformance. The realist in me acknowledges that most likely there is no assembly jig and the CCTs are only audited, not 100% tested :glare:

Alan,

Just a matter of curiousity, but some models of motorcycles have "manual" aftermarket CCTs, because the owners don't trust their "automatic" OEM pieces and someone in the aftermarket has stepped up and built a replacement.

I've never heard mention, or even got a whiff, of a manual aftermarket replacement for the FJR's CCT. Is the production volume worldwide of the FJR simply too small to warrant some company investing in such a product?

Perhaps some "cottage industry" specialist like Ersatz Electric (you listening, Brodie?) might tackle such a need. And I do think there's a need. Your samplings of different CCTs indicate to me that the FJR's CCT relies more on voodoo and kharma than solid engineering.

Before my FJR went to fuel pump Hell, I was getting the same slapping, grinding, rumbling noise at cold idle that so many have reported. Bumping the idle up to 1100rpm to alleviate the noise is certainly no "fix", and I, for one, would R&R the stocker for a well-designed manual replacement in a New York minute.

Before I get inundated with 27 "mine works fine" replies, it all boils down to this: There is enough documented evidence on this forum to indicate the FJR CCT ain't perfect, and with no particular predictable life span. I would replace it with a manual version for one reason....peace of mind.

RH

kolonial72 said:

Here's a curious question: If I want to find out what that chain noise sounds like, for future reference, can I bump the tenioner adjust clockwise just a hair with the engine running? (Then put it back, of course.) My Feej sounds fine right now, but I sure would like to be able to tell bad sounds from other bad sounds down the road. Ouch. While I was hoping to get some advice on this question, I'm terribly sorry that the advice had to come at such a cost to you. Is all okay now?

Message recieved loud and clear - don't fidgit with cam chain tensioner.

Click to expand...

If you have a cam chain/cam chain tensioner problem, there will be noise. The noise will sound like a tin can with small nuts & bolts rattling in it (best I could come-up with...). It'll be loud enough for others to hear it. Ignore this noise at your peril.

Dealers/service managers/technicians are often pre-disposed to give 'short shrift' to customers wanting them to listen to their bike -- and, who can blame them?; they really get asked to do that alot -- and, most of the time it's just normal engine sounds.

But..., cam chain noise is/can be serious (as we've all seen, here). No noise would be ideal. Too tight (a whining sound that increases with revs) is somewhat common and (altho, not ideal) is not a real bad condition. Too loose is the rattling noise that needs attention.

RadioHowie said:

...Just a matter of curiousity, but some models of motorcycles have "manual" aftermarket CCTs, because the owners don't trust their "automatic" OEM pieces and someone in the aftermarket has stepped up and built a replacement...Your samplings of different CCTs indicate to me that the FJR's CCT relies more on voodoo and kharma than solid engineering...I, for one, would R&R the stocker for a well-designed manual replacement in a New York minute.
Before I get inundated with 27 "mine works fine" replies, it all boils down to this: There is enough documented evidence on this forum to indicate the FJR CCT ain't perfect, and with no particular predictable life span. I would replace it with a manual version for one reason....peace of mind.

RH

Click to expand...

First, the root cause of cam chain noise is a wearing cam chain, if the chain wasn't wearing the CCT wouldn't be an issue. Perhaps it would be best to seek a better cam chain before chasing a manual or improved auto CCT. I dunno if the FJR cam chain wear is due to a cheap chain or if it has something to do with lubrication. I believe the chain is supposed to be a standard Bendix item.

IMO, there isn't really anything wrong with the fundamental CCT design, the issue appears to be the way it is assembled and *perhaps* an issue with the internal spring selection or spring quality. I'm not sure that the CCT has an unperdictable life span, I think they are born either good or bad. A born bad CCT won't show itself until the plunger starts to extend. I do think that it is possible to detect all born bad CCTs with a spring force gauge/fixture. I would be willing to bet that a born bad CCT can be reborn a good CCT with one turn of the rod and then reset the end cap. One turn of the rod makes a huge difference in the initial plunger force and this force increase is also evident when the plunger is extended to the end of the normal wear length.

The CCT end cap needs to be able to lock in 180° steps instead of the current 360° allowing better control over the spring tension during assembly. I think the real issue with the CCT is inconsistent assembly and insufficient quality control to catch all the units with weak initial spring settings. Jacques at Hudson Cycles, Hudson NH(1) did say that he has changed a lot of these CCTs in many different Yamaha products.

(1) recommended dealer