TPS recalled and sent for repair...

So, I get MamaYama's TPS recall letter last month. About 2 weeks later my TPS begins to act up (i.e. engine hesitation during cruise and idle and misses at lower RPM's). It started intermittently but progressively worsened over the next several weeks to the point that I almost dropped her while making a turn at a stop sign and she died. I went straight to the shop who were waiting for me to drop off for the needed repairs. Within two hours it was fixed and I went away a satisfied customer.

Nearly two weeks later I began noticing that something wasn't right. It started with an extremely mild hesitation (like bad gas) but then cleared up just as quick as it came. Then the problems became more evident. Yesterday I pulled away from a stop sign and it died; again. I knew something wasn't right. Well, today I went for a short 50-60 mile ride in the hills and it revealed itself with a vengeance. Hesitation became much more pronounced yet intermittent and an extremely rough running engine between 2,000-3,000 RPM. It is acting JUST like it did prior to the TPS recall service.

I have two thoughts...er...questions.

1) Is it possible for the new TPS to go bad that quickly? or

2) Is it possible to 'repair' the original TPS and say it was replaced?

Your insights and experiences are encouraged.

Thanks

Sport

Sounds exactly what was happening to my 05...

Problem....my 05 was one of a small batch of bad ECU's! yes after many many hours of my Techie going over the bike and pulling it all apart (Wiring etc) and even checking with his gurus in Melbourne etc...they could not come up with a problem solver. He was talking to a service guy in NSW (New South Wales, Where the coat hanger is, State of Australia for you geographically deficient yanks!) and he told my techie "hang on....I'm sure there was a notice that came out a few years back about some faulty ECU's in some 05's. Sure enough buried in the notices there it was....Problem fixed....Runs like well like it should!

Sort of glad I took the bike to these guys although they were a bit of a way out of my town, the fact that they knew my bike intimately, I have just purchased the 09 and they gave me a really good trade so it pays sometimes.

Get him to stop ******* around and do an ECU check (Swap in Swap out) I'll lay my balls on it.....well maybe not me balls....

Ps Do a search I relayed the story in here a while ago.....

Thug said:

Ps Do a search I relayed the story in here a while ago.....

Click to expand...

Why can't forum builders make a decent search engine? I searched TPS and then ECU and came up with nutt'n!

Is the ECU also a recall? If not, what are stealers charging?

If you have a faulty ECU, in or out of warranty I'd reckon Yammy would come to the party ECU are not supposed to fail...period....

Here's my story link....https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=108048&hl=ECU+faulty

Keep us informed & good luck

SPORT said:

Thug said:

Ps Do a search I relayed the story in here a while ago.....

Click to expand...

Why can't forum builders make a decent search engine? I searched TPS and then ECU and came up with nutt'n!

Click to expand...

I dunno.

Why can't forum dwellers click on a person's profile and choose Find Members Posts? I found the thread in less than 30 seconds.

SPORT said:

1) Is it possible for the new TPS to go bad that quickly? or2) Is it possible to 'repair' the original TPS and say it was replaced?

Click to expand...

1) Possible. I would take it back in and ask them to check to make sure.

2) Possible, but pretty unlikely. The TPS not only is covered by Yamaha, the dealer gets compensated for the work, and they are audited occasionally on work they do. Not much motive to cook the books...especially on things that could be safety items.

Oh Iggy your such a girly squat sometimes.....\Oh and can you fix that linky thing above?.... ta luv

Ignacio said:

Why can't forum dwellers click on a person's profile and choose Find Members Posts? I found the thread in less than 30 seconds.

Click to expand...

Ignacio,

Touché.

However, before posting the query on my TPS issue I had searched for TPS and got nutt'n; thus, no reference by which to check.

Worst part is, I even googled for the proper way to search a forum because I had forgotten how to do that, and I got nutt'n.

Thanks though.

Back to the topic~

I have a PC3 over riding the ECU. Is there anyway this could mess it up?

Before taking her in I plan to do the following:

1) Replace spark plugs (going with Iridium plugs)

2) Remove the PC3 (could be a point of contention with warranty???)

Thoughts?

SPORT said:

So, I get MamaYama's TPS recall letter last month. About 2 weeks later my TPS begins to act up (i.e. engine hesitation during cruise and idle and misses at lower RPM's). It started intermittently but progressively worsened over the next several weeks to the point that I almost dropped her while making a turn at a stop sign and she died. I went straight to the shop who were waiting for me to drop off for the needed repairs. Within two hours it was fixed and I went away a satisfied customer.
Nearly two weeks later I began noticing that something wasn't right. It started with an extremely mild hesitation (like bad gas) but then cleared up just as quick as it came. Then the problems became more evident. Yesterday I pulled away from a stop sign and it died; again. I knew something wasn't right. Well, today I went for a short 50-60 mile ride in the hills and it revealed itself with a vengeance. Hesitation became much more pronounced yet intermittent and an extremely rough running engine between 2,000-3,000 RPM. It is acting JUST like it did prior to the TPS recall service.

I have two thoughts...er...questions.

1) Is it possible for the new TPS to go bad that quickly? or

2) Is it possible to 'repair' the original TPS and say it was replaced?

Your insights and experiences are encouraged.

Thanks

Sport

Click to expand...

Sport,

I have heard of some having similar symtoms, and found a dirty main harness connector to be the culprit.

Here's a link to the original post, with pics and description.

I would check this first , it's fast and free. Well if it is dirty you will need some WD-40 to clean, and some Dielectric grease to protect and ensure a good connection. I bet Pete could help out with the elec supplies.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Ride Safe; A.C.

P.S. maybe I'll see you guys again this year in Carlisle. Are you going to EOM ?

This Forum's search engine can't search on three letters or less, so TPS won't work as a search term. You can a Google search for TLAs and three letter words. When I Googled tps site:FJRForum.com it returned 138 hits.

Sport, if you want to run a TPS test before taking your FJR back to the dealer and you have a DMM and can use it I can help you determine the health of your TPS for sure.

It's odd that your FJR seemed to run ok after repair then went bad again. If I read your post correctly, the problem occurs in a specific rpm range, regardless of gear?

As Art and others have mentioned, there is one connector that carries signals which seems prone to oxidation that could be your culprit. It hasn't been uncommon for a spark plug cap to pop loose. The ECU can't be ruled out but is probably a low percentage cause.

ionbeam said:

This Forum's search engine can't search on three letters or less, so TPS won't work as a search term. You can a Google search for TLAs and three letter words. When I Googled tps site:FJRForum.com it returned 138 hits.

Click to expand...

Ionbeam, thanks. This is what I keep forgetting:

'Search word' site:FJRForum.com

ionbeam said:

Sport, if you want to run a TPS test before taking your FJR back to the dealer and you have a DMM and can use it I can help you determine the health of your TPS for sure.

Click to expand...

After I consider a few other possibilities...I'll let you know. Tnaks.

ionbeam said:

It's odd that your FJR seemed to run ok after repair then went bad again. If I read your post correctly, the problem occurs in a specific rpm range, regardless of gear?

Click to expand...

Yup. Got about 50 miles then it began acting up again. I've got it torn apart and will check the connectors for corrosion and I'm disconnecting the PC3 just to rule it out and avoid any warranty issues. It's not a specific RPM as it will also surge horribly at cruise (4,500 RPM) and at a slow cruise (2,000 RPM).

ionbeam said:

As Art and others have mentioned, there is one connector that carries signals which seems prone to oxidation that could be your culprit. It hasn't been uncommon for a spark plug cap to pop loose. The ECU can't be ruled out but is probably a low percentage cause.

Click to expand...

Gonna look at it now and report back within the hour.

Thank you again.

SPORT said:

This is what I keep forgetting:'Search word' site:FJRForum.com

Click to expand...

This is how I search the forum. Bear in mind it won't access areas that require you to log in to view, if you aren't logged in.

I've tweaked the code to add search engines for Craigslist and the Patriot Guard site as well, so far. Thanks v65!

ECU connector plug:

With tank lifted I removed the T-bar, separated the connector plug and inspected for corrosion. There is a slight bit of corrosion, but nothing near what is seen in the pics located here. I need to buy some contact cleaner spray and a light silicone lube.

The PC3 has been removed and brought back to stock...for now. Oil and plugs have been ordered and should be here in the next several days. When all is back together, I'll update everyone of my findings.

Thanks for all the info!

Sport

SPORT said:

ECU connector plug:With tank lifted I removed the T-bar, separated the connector plug and inspected for corrosion. There is a slight bit of corrosion, but nothing near what is seen in the pics located here. I need to buy some contact cleaner spray and a light silicone lube.

The PC3 has been removed and brought back to stock...for now. Oil and plugs have been ordered and should be here in the next several days. When all is back together, I'll update everyone of my findings.

Thanks for all the info!

Sport

Click to expand...

__________________________________________________________________________________

All it took was a very slight bit of corrosion on this harnesss connector (on my 04) to cause the same problems... Once cleaned up and some dilectric(sp?) grease applied, took care of it.... No problems since...

It's possible but not very likely that it could be the PC. The reason I say this is because it did happen to me a couple of years ago with pretty much the same symptoms that you described. The problem turned out to be electrical, a loose/bad connection with one of the wires located in the plastic wire connector just outside of the PC box. DynoJet said they had never seen that kind of a problem before & when they got it back to test it, couldn't find the problem, but they stood by their product & sent me a new one. Problem solved with the new PC installed.

PC3 removed O2 sensor reconnected, connectors near triple tree cleaned and sealed, Oil & Filter serviced, plugs replaced with iridium.

She fired right up and runs well. Just came back from putting 100 miles on her. The miss/hesitation is still there, though not as pronounced. However, it seems to be increasing with intensity as the miles rack up. I'm also noticing that the hesitation is felt predominately at or below 3,500 RPM. Also, low RPM cruising is pretty jumpy. The idle is still very strong and there is no indication it want's to die after a blip of the throttle.

any ideas?

My dealer shared a similar story of how an R1 would die at lower RPM's and traced it down to being a slightly weak battery. The logic was that the alternator would not feed the system at lower RPM's and required the battery, which was dying. Ironically it started the bike fine. (personally I think it was a dirty battery connection). Nevertheless, anyone here have something similar?

Next week I'll set up to do a TBS just to remove any possibilities.

There's a slight chance it could be bad gas, but the symptoms don't quite fit that problem.

So I'm down to either:

1) a dying Battery (it is the original battery)

2) the new TPS is bad

3) ECU is crapping out

4) Bad gas

5) TBS (not sure if this has any bearing on it.)

6) Power connector under tank (though I cleaned and resealed already, I will clean more and reconnect only because the probelm has decreased prior to cleaning)

Am I missing anything?

For Future Reference:

Throttle Body Synch. (TBS)

FJRTech info on TBS

Throttle Body Synch Thread

Homemade TBS Tuner

Throttle Position Sensor (TPS):

Missing/Surging thread

TPS Diagnostic thread

Just completed the TPS check using the Diag. window and engine cold (35F). Idle is 16; full throttle is 100 and the slow roll-on did not miss a beat. After reading post after post on engine roughness, I see I'll need to ride her to operating temps, wait for it to begin missing, then immidiately shut her down and do the Diag. test again, rolling the throttle slowly to full looking for the progression of numbers to fail.

Now evening. Ran bike temp up to 3 bars, held throttle @ 3,500 RPM. Engine RPM fluctuated about 200 RPM, but dipped to 2,900 for about 15sec. then jumped up to 3,900RPM before settling back at 3,500 with a variance of 200 RPM.

Shut bike down and checked the TPS. Idle was 16, & full wide open was still 100. Even a slow roll on of the throttle did not reveal any inconsistancies.

Although the 200 RPM variance seems a bit excessive, the drop of 1,000 RPM was quite surprising. Now the question is whether it is electrical, fuel or air related. Guess I need to spray the wires and hoses looking for arks or even a vacuum leak.

Waiting on parts to complete my home made TBS tool, then I'll complete the 'unauthorized TBS adjustment'.

Just found this thread about making sure the spark plug wires are firmly in place. Guess I'll be checking this as well.

You have done good with the testing you have done so far. When I was having problems before the TPS was found to be unreliable I had done the testing you did but still hadn't found the problem. The following is excerpted from a post that I wrote:

Early this spring I had another episode of buck/fart/misfire. About 6 weeks ago Feejer started to regularly be unpleasant when hot, exhibiting misfiring at some cruising speeds. Starting a few weeks ago it would sometimes become intolerant of slight throttle openings at idle. The symptoms occurred when very hot, >3 bars and radiator fan cycling on/off.

After a bad ride I checked the diAG screen but there were no codes set. I checked the values of all the sensors including the TPS and found nothing wrong. I was concerned about the delay between the misfiring and when I checked the TPS. Next time I experienced misfiring I pulled over and immediately shut down and invoked the diAG screen. Every thing was within spec. After restarting bikie it ran well. Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

Wellhell, time to get serious. This past weekend I pulled off the filler ring assembly and found an amazing pile of road spooge that I cleaned out. I dissembled the ring and verified all vent passages were clear. I checked all hoses under the gas tank for pinching and obstruction. No problems found. A test ride quickly showed no cure. No surprise.

It becomes a bit more tricky to troubleshoot when everything passes the diAG test because those are the operating values that the ECU makes its calculations from. I did a bit of studying with the FSM and came up with a list of things to check.

Among the sensors, the TPS, atmospheric pressure sensor (here after APS) and intake manifold pressure sensor (IPS) were high on the suspect list. The pressure sensors include a integrated circuit (IC) that performs temperature compensation and linearization of signals. ICs don't tolerate heat well so they became suspects. Both atmosphere and intake sensors are the exact same part(!). I pulled them and verified that the sensor opening was not obstructed. DO NOT POKE ANYTHING IN THE SENSOR HOLE! DO NOT SQUIRT AN AEROSOL SPRAY IN THE HOLE! The active part of the sensor is very delicate. The APS operates over a very small range so it is unlikely to be a problem, the IPS has a wide dynamic range and it also bakes under the tank making it a likely suspect. Since the sensors are the same I swapped them to see if the problem was either cured or changed. A test ride quickly showed no change, no cure.

Next --- > I used my fuel pressure gauge and mity-vac to test the fuel pressure regulator. No problem. At least at room temperature. I put a Tee on the intake manifold vacuum line that controls the fuel pressure regulator, ran a vacuum line up to the dash and put on a vacuum gauge. Ride time. Upon misfire it was clear that the change in manifold vacuum was a consequence of the misfire and not a leading cause. This pretty much lets out the fuel injectors, fuel pump and pressure regulator. This is the first time that I started to really consider that the problem might be electrical ignition.

Even though the TPS has worked in all previous testing I couldn't rule it out....I back-probed the TPS connector, ran wires up to the dash and Velcroed my cheapie DMM to the dash and went for a ride with Good Pillion™ installed. Three bars, fan cycled on, 35 mph BUCK, FART, MISFIRE. Whoa baby, did you see what the DMM showed?!?! Next glitch, DMM showed a major TPS drop-out. By this point I noted that the drop-outs always occur between .775 and .778 volts. I could ride anyplace around that particular range and had no problems. Deliberate operation in that range caused TPS drop out and the beginnings of Pillion hammering on my helmet to stop doing that. Back in the driveway I checked my light throttle problem at idle and it was plain to see the TPS drop out. As soon as everything cooled a bit the TPS worked normally again.

I changed my TPS and lived happily ever after. Well, almost. A bit later troll from the Stygian depths of the crank case emerged and attacked my CCT.... but that is another story.