FJRF008: Cam Chain Tensioner Survey

There have been numerous posts and questions over the years of this forum’s existence concerning noisy cam chains, due to the OEM cam chain tensioner not being up to the task.

There have also been documented disastrous results from cam chain tensioner failures, resulting in destruction of the valve train and expensive follow-up repairs. Incidentally, all four documented cases of catastrophic cam chain tensioner failures involved 2004 model motors, however there easily might be other, forum-undocumented failures resulting in engine damage in other model years.

A cursory examination of past posts involving cam chain noise emanating from the right side of the motor indicates the original OEM cam chain tensioner (hereafter referred to as CCT) has a finite life, although Yamaha doesn’t suggest a maintenance or replacement schedule for the original part.

However, there seems to be an indication that Yamaha is aware of a problem, considering a recent design and part number change for the OEM unit with forum members who have replaced their OEM unit with the updated model indicating the new replacement part incorporates a longer shaft in the adjustment mechanism, providing more extension of the adjusting shaft at less spring deflection, effectively improving the capabilities of the design, and possibly providing a longer MTBF (mean time between failure) for the OEM replacement .

From my investigations, reported cam chain noise has come as early as 7,000 miles, or as late as over 110,000 miles, so there doesn’t seem to be a pattern for early failure in the OEM CCT. However, after reading many of the threads involving cam chain noise and CCT replacements, it could be deduced that many of the failure issues have immediately, or at a reasonably short time, followed a valve adjustment, where the CCT had been retracted for cam removal.

What follows is a list of random forum posts involving cam chain noise:

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

HERE

Indications from “autopsied” CCTs seem to demonstrate that some OEM units displayed much less tension in the spring than others do, hinting that assembly of the OEM unit may be a factor in short-life failures, as the OEM unit can be assembled with differing levels of spring tension.

[SIZE=10pt]The purpose of this thread is to determine, by survey, if you have experienced cam chain noise and what action was taken to eliminate the noise. With consolidated information we might be able to provide Yamaha positive feedback or maybe push for a recall.[/SIZE]

If you wish to participate in the survey, please indicate

A – the model year of your FJR

B – the number of miles on your FJR when the cam chain noise became apparent

C – what action did you take, i.e., replace the CCT yourself, have the dealer do the work, ignore the noise, etc., and at what mileage

D – did replacing the CCT eliminate the problem, i.e., the chain noise

E – was the problem diagnosed by a dealer and if so, dealer name and specifics

F – were there any problems related to the CCT failure, i.e., cylinder head damage/engine replacement

G – if the repair/replacement was performed by a dealer, how many days

H – paid for by Yamaha or not/under conventional warranty or Y.E.S

I – have you replaced your CCT more than once, including how many times, mileage at replacements

J – did the chain noise begin randomly, or did it begin following valve adjustment, where the CCT needed to be de-tensioned to facilitate cam removal

K - if you are needing to change your CCT are you confident Yamaha's redesign is sufficient or are you considering replacement with a manual aftermarket design

This survey is strictly informative. Please, let’s keep it that way.

To kick things off, I'll use my own experience to fill in the survey:

A - 2004

B - 39,000 miles when the noise began, 46,000 miles when the CCT failed completely, destroying my cylinder head

C - I (unfortunately) ignored the noise until it was too late

D - Not applicable in my situation. Replacement motor was installed after "B"

E - The dealer, Sky Powersports, Lakeland, Florida, told me "they all sound like that"

F - Motor replacement due to destroyed valve train

G - Not applicable. Motor replacement done by myself

H - No Y.E.S. Replacement motor funded by forum generosity

I - No replacement in original motor. OEM replaced with manual aftermarket model in replacement motor

J - Chain noise began randomly. Not associated with valve adjustment or cam removal

K - I wouldn't trust my FJR with the OEM unit, re-designed or not. Replaced with manual unit from APE

If you participate, please snip and respond with survey info only.

Thanks,

‘Howie

Admin Note: After building this thread with great diligence from the thread starter and forum contribution, this issue has been assigned for forum use FJRF008: Cam Chain Tensioner Failures. Although the issue does not have any known formal Yamaha Technical Bulletin, feel free to use this term and reference this thread when working with Yamaha dealers or Yamaha Corporate with warranty coverage. Perhaps they will too acknowledge the issue formally and assign a technical bulletin.

A – 2005

B – 67,000 was first intermittent sounds near idel

C – Replace myself at about 90,000 after

D – Quiet as a tomb.

E – Dealer heard it at 67K and didn't think it was a problem. Didn't press issue and out of warranty by 90K

F – None

G – N/A

H – No

I – No

J – Intermittent at first, close to idle. Grew worse up to 2K.

K - Not confident with replacement CCT, but going to monitor.

Thanks Howie for compiling. Perhaps if we accumulate enough objective data we can get Yamaha to fix this increasingly obvious issue.

A - 2005

B - 50K miles

C - I ignored the noise at first, after about 5K miles it got louder and I realized what it was and manually adjusted the CCT. I replaced the CCT at about 67,000 miles during winter maintenance

D - Replacement of CCT solved the problem. I bought the new CCT before the redesigned part was available so I will replace it again at 100K even if it stays quiet.

E - No - I don't let the dealer near my bikes

F - No problems other than the noise

G - N/A - replaced it myself

H - No - I don't have YES and I didn't ask Yamaha for help

I - Not yet

J - Chain noise began shortly after performing a valve lash adjustment which required shim replacement with both cams out

K - I will have 100K after one more season, by then there should be some history on both the APE and the new Yamaha unit. If I had to change it today I'd try the new Yamaha one.

A - 2004

B - 85,000 miles when the noise began, 95,000 miles when the CCT failed completely, destroying my cylinder head

C - I (unfortunately) ignored the noise until it was too late; engine grenaded in my garage on a Sat; new CCT arrived on Mon

D - Not applicable in my situation. Replacement motor was installed after "B"

E - n/a

F - Motor replacement due to destroyed valve train

G - independent shop swapped engine - Graves Cycle Repair of Tylertown, MS -

swap work took 4 weeks in their time allowed; priority given to bikes with previous appointments; work approx 2 hrs/day

I was charged for 12 hours

H - No Y.E.S. Replacement motor funded by State Farm claim for flooded house from pipe failure

I - 10k mi ebay replacement came with old style OEM CCT and it's still installed...had purchased new style CCT from Mondak

Currently no noise...will replace CCT with new improved if any doubt...might do so anyway at 25k valve check

J - Chain noise began randomly. Not associated with valve adjustment or cam removal

K - I would trust my FJR with the new improved OEM unit. Awaiting in anticipation the results of manual CCT experiment

I believe the CCT will have noise symptoms giving time and chance to replace it before engine failure (knock on wood)

A – 2003

B – 22k

C – replace the CCT yourself, 24k

D – It toned the initial tapping down 95% I could still hear tapping after the replacement (probably not noticeable to others) and it and it seemed to be coming back. I manually adjusted it at 25k and 26k then sold the bike due to frustration with it.

E – no

F – no

G – na

H – na

I – no

J – randomly

K - NA I replaced it with an oem one in winter 2008 and within 2k it was making noise again.

A – the model year of your FJR - 2006

B – the number of miles on your FJR when the cam chain noise became apparent ~30k now ~70k

C – what action did you take, i.e., replace the CCT yourself, have the dealer do the work, ignore the noise, etc., and at what mileage - #1 dealer replace, #2 to be done

D – did replacing the CCT eliminate the problem, i.e., the chain noise - for awhile, noisy again.

E – was the problem diagnosed by a dealer and if so, dealer name and specifics - diagnosed by me confirmed by dealer, Powerhouse, Paso Robles CA

F – were there any problems related to the CCT failure, i.e., cylinder head damage/engine replacement - no, replaced BEFORE failure

G – if the repair/replacement was performed by a dealer, how many days - 3, but other work done too

H – paid for by Yamaha or not/under conventional warranty or Y.E.S - YES

I – have you replaced your CCT more than once, including how many times, mileage at replacements 1x ~30k, now at ~70k

J – did the chain noise begin randomly, or did it begin following valve adjustment, where the CCT needed to be de-tensioned to facilitate cam removal - randomly

K - if you are needing to change your CCT are you confident Yamaha's redesign is sufficient or are you considering replacement with a manual aftermarket design - confident enough to try new factory part

A – 2004

B – 76000

C – monitored noise; dealer's advice at the time was to "...keep an eye on it."

D – Yes

E – Yamaha of Cucamonga; CCT was replaced as well as the chain, chain guides, all exhaust valves and valve seals

F – All work was preventative, that is, before any catastrophic failure.

G – 7, the dealer reported much of this time was waiting for parts

H – Work was performed during summer 2009, YES had expired October 2008. Yamaha declined dealer request to share some burden of cost of repairs

I – NA

J – Followed 76000 mile valve adjustment

K - NA

A – 2004

B – First started noticing noise ~18k, got worse and by 22k I manually extended the plunger yielding silence again. It started making CC noise again ~34k and steadily got worse. By ~39k miles the tach was starting to wander in sync with the noise.

C – At 22k miles I manually pushed out the plunger. At 38k miles I pulled out the CCT and examined it per FSM - the plunger moved smoothly with no binding. I noticed that at 1/3 plunger extension there was a fair amount of spring force and at 2/3 extension there was virtually no force. At this time I didn't know the working plunger extension was nearly 50%. I reinstalled the CCT and released the plunger per FSM.

D – After reinstalling the CCT I thumbed the starter, heard a HIC and then the starter turned the engine over way too fast. I immediately knew that there were only two things related to what I did that could cause that --low compression or a CC problem. The only thing that could cause low compression under these circumstances would be valve/piston interference. I could hear the cams turning so the CC was eliminated.

E – I diagnosed the problem. I used audiometric tubing (on the idea of a stethoscope) to listen to the engine, it was plain to hear the CC was slack. Anyone could use a metal rod or long screwdriver to listen, simply press the rod against the point you want to listen, then put you ear to the rod. They make mechanic's stethoscopes if you really want to spend the $$$ for one.

F – I crushed all the exhaust valves and 4 of the intake valves. One exhaust valve boss cast into the cylinder head which holds the valve guide fractured. Several valves were crushed into the valve guides and had to be driven out, one valve still remains stuck in the head and one valve stem completely broke. The entire cylinder head was toast.

G – I had the repair done by Hudson Cycle in Hudson, NH. Like Patriot, I purchased a used engine (with a warranty) and swapped in the used engine. The engine was bad and the warranty was honored. I purchased a second used engine with a warranty, had to swap a lot of parts off my old engine onto the replacement engine so we could test it prior to installing it in the frame. A cylinder leak-down test showed it failed on one cylinder by a little bit but the other three were just plain bad, bad, bad. (Throw hands up in the air, said many expletives.) I decided to repair the bomb.

Due to the severe damage to the cylinder head we decided to completely tear down my grenaded motor so we could inspect the crank, plane bearings, rods, rod bearings, wrist pins, pistons and cylinder walls. We found stuck rings on 3 pistons so I replaced rings on all 4 pistons. The parts list was almost 6 pages long. After repair the engine started right up and ran ok. But, the tone of the engine was very wrong and it shook worse than a Harley. I told the dealer that something was horribly wrong, he said to ride it for ~600 miles, if it was still bad come back and he would make it, "As good or better than new." During the 2,000 or so miles I actually rode, it vibrated out a lot of hardware and the vibrations broke aftermarket brackets. Returned the bike to the dealer, and he willingly agreed to get to the root cause and fix it. He knew it was coming back and had already contacted Yamaha so the tech was available right away. The engine came back out yet again and was totally torn down, again. Problem was found and it was put back together, again. It ran sweet. As good or better than new.

I left the piece of offal at Hudson in November, got it back in April, returned it the last of June and got it back again in 3 days, running good. It was at the dealer for 6 months, all winter months when I couldn't ride, followed by a major 3 day thrash in July to get it back to me ASAP.

H – Yamaha readily said that what happened to my engine was abnormal and shouldn't have happened. When it came to discussing any factory help for parts or labor they were a rock. Yamaha said that it would be unfair to everyone that bought YES if they were to pick up even a dime of my repair costs. If Hudson had charged me 100% of normal parts mark-up and 100% of the labor, including install and removal of two used engines and the palleting for return, my total cost would have been in the area of $6,300 :cray: It still cost me around $5,000 by the time it was all over. If Yamaha had offered to pick up any of the cost I would not have looked at used engines. Repurchasing my FJR has nearly financially buried me.

I – At 60k miles I'm on CCT #2, old design installed during the rebuild. And, I'm starting to hear noises again...

J – The chain noise begin randomly.

K - If I need CCT #3 I will inspect the new design CCT and then decide what to do. I would expect the new CCT to address the shortcomings of the old CCT and if it does, I would use the new CCT before a manual CCT.

A 2007

B 60'000

C dealer replaced

D yes, eliminated problem

E No, self diagnosed after reading on Forum

F no other problems

G I ordered parts, 1 hour to replace

H no warranty

I just once

J random

K Yamaha design sufficient

A. 2005

B. Noticed 15K, Broke 34K, No Damage

C. Dealer Replaced under YES

D. Corrected, quiet running again

E. Self diagnosed then ignored too long !

F. Rear Shock replaced under YES !

G, Alamo Cycle replaced, 1 week turnaround

H. YES warranty

I. just once

J. Random, intermittent from 15K

K. Confident with Yammie but will monitor

Good on ya Howie !

Bobby

A. 2007

B. 36,000 no noise yet

C-K n/a

A – the model year of your FJR - 2004

B – the number of miles on your FJR when the cam chain noise became apparent - Approximately 85-90k.

C – what action did you take, i.e., replace the CCT yourself, have the dealer do the work, ignore the noise, etc., and at what mileage - Replaced at 110k. Back then we didn't know about the destructive capability of a bad CCT. I wouldn't wait if I heard the noise now. Work was done by a Yamaha dealer and covered under the 4 year Y.E.S. extended warranty. Cam chain and CCT were replaced as well as guides.

D – did replacing the CCT eliminate the problem, i.e., the chain noise - Yes. Remember that cam chain was replaced also however.

E – was the problem diagnosed by a dealer and if so, dealer name and specifics - Noise first diagnosed by Desert Valley Powersports (FJRGoodies). Manual tightening of CCT made noise go away. Tech told me it was most likely a stretched cam chain (due to mileage). I still believed it to be CCT since it is known weak component. Two months later at the repairing dealer, Apache Motorcycles, they diagnosed it again as a stretched chain simply because of the high miles. They weren't even going to replace the CCT until I talked them into it. So, in the end I received a new CCT, cam chain, and guides.

F – were there any problems related to the CCT failure, i.e., cylinder head damage/engine replacement - NO

G – if the repair/replacement was performed by a dealer, how many days - Approximately 2-3 weeks. Cam chain was on back order and took a while to get.

H – paid for by Yamaha or not/under conventional warranty or Y.E.S - Covered by Y.E.S.

I – have you replaced your CCT more than once, including how many times, mileage at replacements - Only replaced once. Currently have 107k on the replacement with no issues.

J – did the chain noise begin randomly, or did it begin following valve adjustment, where the CCT needed to be de-tensioned to facilitate cam removal - Random as far as I know.

K - if you are needing to change your CCT are you confident Yamaha's redesign is sufficient or are you considering replacement with a manual aftermarket design - Even if Yamaha hadn't updated the CCT, I wouldn't be putting a manual aftermarket design in. Just not my thing. So I'll stick with OEM.

This survey is strictly informative. Please, let’s keep it that way. Screw that!!!

RadioHowie said:

[SIZE=10pt] With consolidated information we might be able to provide Yamaha positive feedback or maybe push for a recall.[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

Huh?! Recall?!

Recalls are for safety issues. This is NOT a safety issue so it ain't gonna happen. I also disagree with you and Iggy that this is such a big deal that Yamaha needs to take action on it. CCTs are tricky little buggers to get right. Just google 'CCT problems' and see how many other bikes have 'issues'. Vehicle manufacturers don't get everything 100% right. Heck, the MAF sensor on my VW Golf diesel is a well known POS, yet VW ain't doing anything about it. Other than perhaps improving things later on down the line. I still think the failure rate is relatively low for CCTs on FJRs. No doubt the CCT is one of the 'weak' areas of the FJR, but if it does go bad, well, then fix it. I am encouraged that Yamaha seems to have improved the CCT however. Hopefully it will solve 90% of the 5% of CCT issues that happen now.

Still good on ya RH for taking the time to do this survey and compile the information. :clapping:

Just remember, not everybody is a big enough tool around here to grenade their engine. :****:

Radio Howie - Thanks for taking the ball and running with this.

A – 2005

B – I noticed it, or became concerned at about 40K

C – Got various opinions form other riders, finally decided to replace it myself at about 43K.

D – Yes, noise fixed.

E – No.

F – No.

G – N/A

H – N/A

I – No.

J – Random mainly, noticed at idle, at operating temp.

K - I have no other option. I don't trust an aftermarket non-proven manual adjuster. I may have to make this a maintenance item now.

A – 2007 A

B – 5500 miles first heard it come and go at idle

C – R&R CCT myself, covered by yamaha, @ 16,000 miles

D – yes

E – yes. Herba Motors. Told me it souds like it and told me how to diag because I didn't want to leave it.

F – no

G – N/A

H –Y.E.S. I think

I – no

J – randomly

K - I am confident Yamaha's redesign is sufficient

Thanks Howie

I'll take a stab at this...

A – the model year of your FJR.

2006 FJR1300AE

B – the number of miles on your FJR when the cam chain noise became apparent.

At around 65k - I took my ear plugs out for a ride and it didn't sound like what I remembered.

C – what action did you take, i.e., replace the CCT yourself, have the dealer do the work, ignore the noise, etc., and at what mileage.

After reading about the 2 reported incidents, I got a long skinny screw driver and manually snugged it up, the chain noise went away for a bit. I then obtained a replacement CCT. Unfortunatly it's the old design. and the spring tension does not seem to be any stronger than the original unit.

I have a 2004 CBR600F4i in my stable, these bikes also have a history with their cam chain tensioner. The previous owner replaced it's CCT with an APE manual tensioner. I contacted American Performance Engineering asking if they had a manual tensioner for the FJR. The answer was negative, however, they asked for my original unit so they could build one. A prototype was sent to me, and I made an adjustment to their design. The APE tensioner is now in production ( p/n YT1300 ).

D – did replacing the CCT eliminate the problem, i.e., the chain noise.

So far, 8k miles later on the replacement Yamaha CCT, the bike still is quiet.

E – was the problem diagnosed by a dealer and if so, dealer name and specifics.

No

F – were there any problems related to the CCT failure, i.e., cylinder head damage/engine replacement.

N/A

G – if the repair/replacement was performed by a dealer, how many days.

N/A

H – paid for by Yamaha or not/under conventional warranty or Y.E.S.

No Y.E.S. coverage, I foot the bill on the replacement CCT.

I – have you replaced your CCT more than once, including how many times, mileage at replacements.

Just once at around 65K.

J – did the chain noise begin randomly, or did it begin following valve adjustment, where the CCT needed to be de-tensioned to facilitate cam removal.

I would have to say randomly - although, I just shimmed my valves not long before then (around 57k miles).

K - if you are needing to change your CCT are you confident Yamaha's redesign is sufficient or are you considering replacement with a manual aftermarket design.

I do not trust the old design. I think the new design probably addresses the issue, however, since I have an APE manual cam chain tensioner in hand I will be installing it at my next scheduled valve check - 78k miles.

Howie,

I appreciate the initiative you're taking on this, it shows your desire to give back to this comunity. This FJRForum is blessed with quite a number of members like you. That's what makes it so damn good!

Brodie

An interesting thread, kudos to Howie for starting it.

At 72,000 miles I am hearing obvious cam chain rattling when the temps are quite hot. I have a new CCT/gasket in hand, and will install it at the next valve clearance check, which is due here shortly. Will add to this BOK (body of knowledge) after I do so.

All that having been said.....

SkooterG has, amazingly, provided the correct assessment. CCT problems are <b>not unusual whatsoever</b> on many, many inline-4 motorcycle engines, and is certainly not limited to our FJR's. In the end, a cam chain tensioner is, for all intents and purposes, a consumable wear item, and should be treated as such. FJR owners (and many a inline-4 bike owner) will pay attention to the telltale sounds and take appropriate action before they get "Ionbeam-ed".

At around 60,000 miles, I had to do this on my Blackbird about 5 years ago (<a href="https://www.bikersoracle.com/blackbird/forum/showthread.php?t=11304" target="_blank">linky-link</a> to the write-up)... it was amazingly easy to do.

Yamaha is simply not going to be doing recall on this item, nor should they..... it would be akin to doing a "recall" on a rear shock after it is at the end of its useful service life. No one should get their hopes up there. Instead, <b>take control of the situation <!--coloro:#8B0000--><span style="color:#8B0000"><!--/coloro-->yourself<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, use the experience/knowledge/awesome power of this forum to keep your FJR engine in a happy state of tune. Come time to change your CCT, it is just not that hard to do if you follow that excellent instructions found in many FJRForum threads on this subject.

Warchild said:

it would be akin to doing a "recall" on a rear shock after it is at the end of its useful service life. No one should get their hopes up there.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with that....mainly because they don't have the CCT listed in the maintenance checklists like they do the shock absorber and other wear items.

I do agree that CCTs seem to be a common issue, but I'm not convinced then that the industry either needs to review their similar design...or clearly make it a maintenance item.

Ignacio said:

I don't agree with that....mainly because they don't have the CCT listed in the maintenance checklists like they do the shock absorber and other wear items.

Click to expand...

Do you see where they list lubing the rear pumpkin splines?

Do you see where they list the cleaning/lubing the U-joint ?

No, you do not... yet *we* know better because this forum has the peeps with the experience to know better, and they share this experience with other members. That's what makes FJRForum so powerful.

I guarantee you nothing will ever come of a CCT "recall".... ever.

Hey SkooterG, stop picking on good friend RadioHowie; I'm sticking up for Manatee Boy! RH IS biggest tool on our FJR Forum!!!