Suspected Clutch Problem

I have been having difficulty shifting my '06A and suspect that the clutch is not fully releasing. Has anyone else experienced similar problems? Symptoms include:

- Where I work I usually park the bike on an incline and leave the transmission in first gear to keep it from rolling easily off of the sidestand. When I go to leave, with the engine not running, when I squeeze the clutch the bike will not roll down the incline. If I push hard with my legs forward or backward I will eventually hear a "clunk" and then the bike rolls freely.

- If I do not try to push the bike but just thumb the starter (with the clutch lever squeezed), the bike will initially leap forward about 6 inches as the starter begins to turn over the engine. The clutch does break loose after this leap but it is unnerving with our crowded bike parking area.

- After rolling off of the throttle and applying the brakes on an off-ramp leaving the interstate I will start to downshift in preparation to merge or stop with the intersecting road. I will squeeze the clutch and then attempt to depress the shift lever to downshift from 5th to 4th gear. It feels like I am pressing on a solid steel rod rather than a linkage that should be moving downward. Once the 5-4 downshift has occurred and with the clutch lever still squeezed, each subsequent downshift feels absolutely normal

Are the clutch plates warped or too thick? Is there a mechanical adjustment to a push rod that may be required to get the clutch to fully release? Are the clutch hydraulics defective?

Any thoughts, experience or wisdom would be appreciated. The dealer is beginning to acknowledge that a problem really exists but he is coming around very slowly. Thanks!

Dave

First the simple stuff:

1) Check the fluid in the reservoir.

2) Check for leaking fluid in the clutch hydraulics.

3) Bleed the clutch system to make sure there is no air in the lines.

New clutches tend to be sticky for a while, this is true of all scoots, or for that matter, all wet clutches. The inability to roll cold is normal. Things will loosen after a while.

radman said:

The inability to roll cold is normal.

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+1

Every bike I've owned has done the same thing cold. I sometimes break it lose before I start my 03, it makes the first engaugement into 1st gear just a click instead of a loud crunch.

I suspect the high spots on new frictions cause this, as Frank also displayed this tendency, which has disappeared as the miles rolled on. In fact, what was at first a rather recalcitrant unit has morphed into one of the nicest clutches I've ever used, on any machine. Just takes a while.

Have you changed the oil lately? My clutch was acting up when my FJR was new. The oil change at 600 miles took care of the problem.

Geezer said:

First the simple stuff:
1) Check the fluid in the reservoir.

2) Check for leaking fluid in the clutch hydraulics.

3) Bleed the clutch system to make sure there is no air in the lines.

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Geezer:

Thanks for the reply. I did check for fluid level, leaks and bled the system prior to my first stop at the dealer. Everything appears solid and the bleed resulted in no air in the system.

Dave

dhalen32 said:

Geezer:Thanks for the reply. I did check for fluid level, leaks and bled the system prior to my first stop at the dealer. Everything appears solid and the bleed resulted in no air in the system.

Dave

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Good. Then I would agree with the others, fresh oil and some break-in miles. Beyond that, have the dealer take a look at iut under warranty.

radman said:

New clutches tend to be sticky for a while, this is true of all scoots, or for that matter, all wet clutches. The inability to roll cold is normal. Things will loosen after a while.

Click to expand...

Radman:

Thank you for the reply. I have got about 3000 miles on the bike so far. It did not exhibit these issues during the first 600 miles. I changed the oil and filter using 15W - 40 Rotella T and rode it another 2000 miles. The dealer suggested that not using Yamalube was the cause. I agreed to changing the oil and filter again but they were out of Yamalube so I used Suzuki 10W - 40 and it still has the symptoms 400 miles later. At the dealer I can park the bike on their 15 degree loading ramp in first gear, squeeze the clutch and the bike will simply not move unless you jar the clutch loose. Even decelerating from highway speed at operating temperature on the off-ramp with engine running it takes 1/2 to 1 1/2 seconds for the clutch to release after squeezing the clutch lever. You can feel the bike freewheel and see the revs on the tach drop to idle after what seems like a long time after squeezing the lever.

Dave

dhalen32 said:

Radman:Thank you for the reply. I have got about 3000 miles on the bike so far. It did not exhibit these issues during the first 600 miles. I changed the oil and filter using 15W - 40 Rotella T and rode it another 2000 miles. The dealer suggested that not using Yamalube was the cause. I agreed to changing the oil and filter again but they were out of Yamalube so I used Suzuki 10W - 40 and it still has the symptoms 400 miles later. At the dealer I can park the bike on their 15 degree loading ramp in first gear, squeeze the clutch and the bike will simply not move unless you jar the clutch loose. Even decelerating from highway speed at operating temperature on the off-ramp with engine running it takes 1/2 to 1 1/2 seconds for the clutch to release after squeezing the clutch lever. You can feel the bike freewheel and see the revs on the tach drop to idle after what seems like a long time after squeezing the lever.

Dave

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That is more than one should expect. Beat on it. Like a red headed stepchild. Seriously. And as to the oil choice, your dealer is fulla ****. And, we're off...... :blink:

radman said:

dhalen32 said:

Radman:

Thank you for the reply. I have got about 3000 miles on the bike so far. It did not exhibit these issues during the first 600 miles. I changed the oil and filter using 15W - 40 Rotella T and rode it another 2000 miles. The dealer suggested that not using Yamalube was the cause. I agreed to changing the oil and filter again but they were out of Yamalube so I used Suzuki 10W - 40 and it still has the symptoms 400 miles later. At the dealer I can park the bike on their 15 degree loading ramp in first gear, squeeze the clutch and the bike will simply not move unless you jar the clutch loose. Even decelerating from highway speed at operating temperature on the off-ramp with engine running it takes 1/2 to 1 1/2 seconds for the clutch to release after squeezing the clutch lever. You can feel the bike freewheel and see the revs on the tach drop to idle after what seems like a long time after squeezing the lever.

Dave

Click to expand...

That is more than one should expect. Beat on it. Like a red headed stepchild. Seriously. And as to the oil choice, your dealer is fulla ****. And, we're off...... :blink:

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Radman:

I tend to agree with you regarding the dealer's first response but I'm also inclined to play his game awhile until this gets sorted out. I want to be cooperative and have documented what we have both done to resolve things in case I need him pleading my case with Yamaha.

So you think I need to "help" break in this clutch a little more vigorously?

I have ridden and wrenched only wet clutch bikes since 1970 and this is the crankiest one I have owned so far. Since motorcycle gearboxes are fairly easy to shift clutchless I really don't notice much of a problem with upshifts whether hot or cold. However, this 5-4 downshift feels like the bike is jammed in fith and will never move downward again. Thanks again for your thoughts on my problem.

Dave

The fact that the symptoms worsened rather than lessened over time would indicate a problem beyond normal new bike reluctance. If indeed it does have a bad clutch, unlikely it will hurt to burn it in a bit to see if that loosens things up. Couple of 5 grand launches oughta settle things down, if not, well, it was fun anyway, right?

I feel for you!

Take it back and have them test it, noting the issue in your service file.

Better get the yes as well. keep a note that you told them and the date with the reply.

that way you'll have some documentation that you advised them you were having an issue.

My 05 still does that, clutch plates sticking together thingy.

btw it is in the shop for a tranmission issue now.

16000 miles 1.5 years old.

I have the yes so I am hoping that yamy plays fair.

radman said:

The fact that the symptoms worsened rather than lessened over time would indicate a problem beyond normal new bike reluctance. If indeed it does have a bad clutch, unlikely it will hurt to burn it in a bit to see if that loosens things up. Couple of 5 grand launches oughta settle things down, if not, well, it was fun anyway, right?

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Radman:

Well I'll just give that a shot. Perhaps it'll wear down some of those high spots on the friction plates! I'm sure it will be fun. Thanks.

Dave

05fjrBluedevil said:

I feel for you!
Take it back and have them test it, noting the issue in your service file.

Better get the yes as well. keep a note that you told them and the date with the reply.

that way you'll have some documentation that you advised them you were having an issue.

My 05 still does that, clutch plates sticking together thingy.

btw it is in the shop for a tranmission issue now.

16000 miles 1.5 years old.

I have the yes so I am hoping that yamy plays fair.

Click to expand...

Blue Devil:

Thanks for sharing. I plan on buying a YES plan soon. I just bought the bike a couple of months ago. I hope yours get fixed and mine gets better. I do have an appointment with the Service Manager on 10/9. He has committed to going to Yamaha with the problem. I'll keep people here advised of the problem resolution.

Dave

Oil is an itegral player in the wet clutch continuum -- so, advice to change it is sound. Maybe, try a different brand still. One thing that sometimes helps is to get more oil into the clutch assy. This is done by running the engine as much as you, conveniently, can with the clutch dis-engaged (plates apart). Just general practices of keeping the clutch pulled-in whenever not actually riding may help. In extreme cases, manufacturers have sometimes drilled extra holes in the inner-basket or devised oil troughs in cases or covers to remedy some clutch actuation problems. Either changing the oil (again) or holding the clutch in (more) are low risk and easy attempts at a remedy -- good luck.

Have you tried pumping the clutch lever a couple times quickly like you would if your brake pedal went down too far while stopping your car? If that helps then you can suspect a problem in the master or slave cylinder. Otherwise it is more likely in the clutch itself.

Pull the clutch in and blip the throttle to break the clutch pack loose and allow oil into the clutch pack on down shifts. Like Rad said, beat on the clutch some and it will wear in. R1's had this problem in '04. Typically, a clutch friction plate is soaked in oil and fully saturated before installation. Yamaha has a bad habit of installing with grease instead. Usually the sticking will cure itself, but there have been instances where the plates had to be removed, soaked and reinstalled to cure this issue.

Radman, et al:

I was finally able to ride this morning and I made a conscious effort to slip the clutch a lot in an attempt to wear down any high spots on the friction plates. The result was greatly reduced effort at the shift lever when downshifting! I'll ride this way a few more days and then return to my normal habits with the clutch and see how it goes. Perhaps I was being a bit too gentle with my new machine. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

Dave

I wanted to post a follow-up on the shifting/clutch problems and dealer repair which I have experienced on my '06A. The downshifting problem did return and the Service Manager got Yamaha to authorize 2 hours of labor and a gasket to disassemble and inspect the clutch pack assembly. The Yamaha service rep felt that the clutch plates had dried out since the time from when it was manufactured to when I took delivery was apparently excessively long. I was skeptical, but left it at the dealer a few weeks ago when the ordered clutch cover gasket had arrived. They disassembled the clutch pack, soaked the friction plates for about 36 hours and then reassembled. The tech and the Service Manager both drove the bike and felt that it was still not right and asked if they could keep it longer. I agreed and a week later they called and asked me to drive it to see if I felt it was better. They believe their repair had worked but wanted my opinion. I picked the bike up this past Saturday morning, rode it several hundred and it is like a completely different machine. The tech who worked on the bike was on the service desk when I arrived and I asked him what finally cured it. He said that while soaking the clutch plates had improved the shifting he believed that the clutch slave cylinder disassembly and cleaning had really been the answer. That is what they had doen with the extra week of time. The dealer, PowerSportsPro in Omaha, Nebraska, and Yamaha both stepped up to solve my issue and so far (a few days) the repair seems to be working. I just wanted to pass this information on in case someone else might be experiencing similar symptoms with their bike. I did learn something new from talking to the tech which I had never thought of in the past. He recommends flushing out the clutch hydraulic system more often than the brakes due to the larger number of cycles it receives over a given period of time. I never noticed it before but he claims that the clutch fluid always darkens up before the brake fluid due to the increased number of cycles that system sees. I will add a clutch hydraulic system flush to my list of annual maintenance tasks from now on.