Early C-14 owner reports "gutless" bottom end

From Bikeland.org C14 forun

Wonderful day on the Connie...
Took note of a few things that members asked about...

First off, the bike is gutless below 4500 rpm. It might as well be a 600 in the basement, that's just my take on it.. Above 4K and it starts to come alive, and really wakes up above 7K.

On the highway for overtaking at 70mph you need to be in 4th gear or lower to get the tach into the beginning of the power. If you roll on at this speed in 5th or 6th it's like driving a Tercel.

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Seems the current crop of SST bikes are not that easy to top. Even when your target is standing still. Remember, top gear is only 220 rpm lower than the FJR.

Got the Url if you want to read the whole thing

C-14 review by a new owner

That doesn't sound so ideal to me. The FJR may only have a 5 speed gearbox, but between the gearing and the lower end torque, it's very usable in the low RPM range. Like a 600 below 4000 rpm would be a deal breaker for me for this kind of bike. There's no way that description would fit the feejer, and with it loaded and two up, it pulls just fine. Sounds like the new Connie may be a year or two of refinements away from doing the same. Or the guy reporting has something wrong with his bike.

What did they do to that ZX-14????

They really should have just slapped some mega-risers, a bigger windscreen, and bags on a ZX-14. I'd probably buy that!

He forgot to finish the sentence by saying 'the bike is gutless below 4500 rpm compared to a ....'. Is he coming off of a ZX14 or an older Concours? Read down a bit more...he says 'if you come off of a 14 or a busa, you'll be disappointed IMHO... if you come off of a "legacy" Concours... you'll be thrilled. ' and he also said 'it does pull, but it doesnt start to come alive until above 4500K... it certainly can't hold a candle to a ZX14 or a Busa or any twin (say your SV) under 4K... '. Well, I'd be surprised if the FJR could hold a candle to the zx14 or busa with the way it pulls under 4K. I dunno - I never rode one, but, from the numbers I've seen, the ZX14 and Busa destroy the FJR in top gear 60-80mph roll on times.

Another new owner says '- It PULLS! Torque, torque and more torque in the low end. Will happily accelerate (gently) from 2000 rpm in top gear.'. But, he's coming off an old Connie, so, compared to that sled, he's probably right.

To compare it to something outside of its class or to an older version Connie is worthless.

I think I'll withold judgement until I ride one or hear from someone who rides an FJR to ride it and say how it compares.

I just came back from First Turn Suzuki, out of Scott, La. They got their first C-14 in yesterday. They are not offering demo rides as of yet, but are expecting to start next week. Looking at the bike, I have to say it looks better in person than it does on web photos I have seen. The only things on the bike that looked a little "funky" to me where the seat and the exhaust can. The seat is a two tone grey/black (would look better all black), and of course the can was GIGANTIC. Not only is it large in circumfrence, but it is also very long, and sticks out past the rear tire and fender. Overall, the bike "feels" pretty big when sitting on it. It seems longer and wider and is definitely taller than our FJRs.

Overall, not a bad looking machine. Can't wait to get lined up for a demo ride next week.

Jay

'04 FJR 1300

SouthernCruizer said:

and of course the can was GIGANTIC.

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Isn't the cat converter in the can rather than under the engine like the FJR? If so, maybe that's why it's longer?

and, if that is correct, a slip on eliminates the cat converter altogether?

Randy said:

SouthernCruizer said:

and of course the can was GIGANTIC.

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Isn't the cat converter in the can rather than under the engine like the FJR? If so, maybe that's why it's longer?

and, if that is correct, a slip on eliminates the cat converter altogether?

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Exactly correct.

Kawasaki has taken a lesson from Suzuki GSXR series: they know that aftermarket cans are an extremely popular item, which is why they place the cat inside the stock exhaust can, so when the inevitable aftermarket slip-ons are purchased, the bike loses all that weight (and the substantial heat the cat produces!) in one fell swoop.

Warchild said:

Kawasaki has taken a lesson from Suzuki GSXR series: they know that aftermarket cans are an extremely popular item, which is why they place the cat inside the stock exhaust can, so when the inevitable aftermarket slip-ons are purchased, the bike loses all that weight (and the substantial heat the cat produces!) in one fell swoop.

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That's a nice touch -- had to put the full Muzzy system on to lose the cat on the FJR. OTOH, I suspect that if you damage the can in an accident, the replacement is a really high dollar item.

Thanks for the confirmation, WC. BTW -- bad luck with your arm, but I hope it is quickly rehab-able, rather than needing a rebuild.

A friend and fellow FJR rider got to demo the bike yesterday at the Plano, TX shop. Had 2.8 miles when they let him take it out. Bottom line - he's a buyer as soon as they can get him an ABS model. He also rides a XX and the word "gutless" was nowhere in his review. However, the words "smooth" and "powerful" were mentioned several times.

I went down and test rode the New Connie. Kay rode pillion as a second opinion was needed for comfort from her perspective, and I had it for about 45 minutes in city traffic, then freeway, then some twisties.

First impressions, nice fit and finish, but the small plastic hatch between the gas filler the the triple tree was fussy and aweward to open. The 'keyless' feature is certainly cool. The side bags are smaller than the FJR. Stradling the Connie I sit taller on the bike, and Kay had to step up higher to get on. The pillion has more leg room than my '04 FJR and her seat feels roomier and the seat gave more support than my stocker, and positions her a bit higher than me.

I am 6'6" with a 36" inseam, and have more clearance from the fairing with my knees, a bit more leg room.

The left thumb control for signals horn, highbeams, and windscreen are absofekinlutely identical to the FJR's. The turn signals require cancelling.

The windscreen as said above is much smaller than the FJR and so is the amount of protection. I noticed this mostly on my arms. No buffeting with screen all the way up, but I don't get that with Kay on the back on the FJR, so not sure about this one.

Underway the bike has a lovely growl, very sport bike like and with the rpms up over 6k, it sounds as good as the FJR with aftermarket cans.

The shifting was pretty smooth for a new bike. There is a hi frequency vibration that is quite noticeable at around 3500 rpm. On the highway this thing is a beast, and the constant tire pressure display is a nice piece of work. It was shod with Bridgestones and was very flickable. And as good or a tad better than the FJR in this department. The braking is good, and required little effort to haul down nicely, but with Kay on the back I didn't explore the abs or full power stops, but as for feel, my '04 still has it beat. The gear display and the 6th gear or OD was only used to see it, stayed in 3rd or 4th for the mostpart. In the twisties the Connie was great, better clearance than the FJR and the suspension was better than stock FJR, but not better than my Wilber's setup front and rear. Very flickable and felt lighter than the FJR.

I began to notice some heat on my right leg, ten minutes into the ride, first at my ankle, then further up. No, Kay wasn't getting amorous, the Connie began kicking out major heat. By the end of the ride it was very noticeable and certainly way more than my unmodified '04 FJR. The temp today was about 20C or 68F, thereabouts. After getting back on the FJR and going for lunch, Kay said she was amazed how hot the passenger seat got, hotter than her 325 BMW with the seat warmers on Hi !! She said she could not have handled it for very long. My seat didn't get hot, just my right let, but it was VERY HOT.

So, in summary it seems the Connie is going to have a few issues similar to the early FJR's,namely the HEAT, probably the reason why they have been so long coming to market. I expect the next year's model with have an optional windscreen size, and will have incorporated some of Yamaha's technology for airflow management because this will be a huge issue.

I really don't know what C14 that guy was riding. Maybe coming off a ZX14 the fastest bike in the world the C14 may seem "gutless".

If I were looking for a ZX14 with bags I would also probably put bags on a ZX14. I'm not sure why Kawi would make a ZX14 and a ZX14 with bags?

There is not doubt in my mind a C14 will bury an FJR or ST1300 in acceleration. Not that this is relevant to the conversation.

I can tell you the C14 could cruise EASILY at 100-120 ALL DAY long with very little rider or bike effort.

My FJR pulled very strongly to the 115-120 range. The C14 pulls strongly WELL past 115..

Granted the C14 is no ZX14, Busa, XX. But for a sport tourer it is quick and smooth. Just what I am looking for.

I went in expecting cobbled together ZX14 and assorted other bits and left impressed with the refinements.

I'm a Honda guy at heart that is basis on which I subconsciously compare other bikes.

The C14 is indeed impressive. I get the impression the Kawi people put A LOT of good work into this bike.

Whether the C14 can stand the test of miles as the original Concours, ST and FJR remains to be seen.

It speaks to me, check it out for yourselves.

-JF

Langly said:

There is not doubt in my mind a C14 will bury an FJR or ST1300 in acceleration.

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While that may be correct. I have absolutely zero faith in butt dynos - either way.

I'll wait for the hard numbers, especially when tested in a 'comparo' situation.

SkooterG said:

Langly said:

There is not doubt in my mind a C14 will bury an FJR or ST1300 in acceleration.

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While that may be correct. I have absolutely zero faith in butt dynos - either way.

I'll wait for the hard numbers, especially when tested in a 'comparo' situation.

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Heard from a canuck with a butt dyno that the FJR (he has one) and C14 are very similar in gears 1-5. Then, the C14 goes into overdrive in 6th (2800 rpm at 62 mph). He confirmed - in OD, not a lot of grunt, but, when you're in OD, you don't need grunt. A simple downshift will do.

I sat on one at the Toronto bike show and I didn't like it. It felt bigger than the FJR but a couple of weeks ago I saw another one. Looked more the same size as the FJR . Looks nice with the bags off as well. Can't tell you compared as speed but I did notice it requires 90 octane or better... That means the more expensive stuff. The guy that had it said he put regular in it and "it ran fine". But then he only just picked it up before the rally.

Randy wrote:

Heard from a canuck with a butt dyno that the FJR (he has one) and C14 are very similar in gears 1-5. Then, the C14 goes into overdrive in 6th (2800 rpm at 62 mph). He confirmed - in OD, not a lot of grunt, but, when you're in OD, you don't need grunt. A simple downshift will do.

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"Overdrive" seems to be a misunderstood (and relative) term anymore. Now is just seems to mean "low rpm". The top gear cruising RPM for the FJR and the C14 are within 220 RPM at 75mph - not a lot of difference. I doubt many riders with full face helmets could percieve 220 rpm. The other thing to be aware of is that if a downshift pass is executed on both bikes, the FJR will a ratio edge as the gap is wider to 4th than it is to 5th on the Kaw. Some real world roll on is the only real way to tell which has more passing authority.

Flyguy said:

Randy wrote:

Heard from a canuck with a butt dyno that the FJR (he has one) and C14 are very similar in gears 1-5. Then, the C14 goes into overdrive in 6th (2800 rpm at 62 mph). He confirmed - in OD, not a lot of grunt, but, when you're in OD, you don't need grunt. A simple downshift will do.

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"Overdrive" seems to be a misunderstood (and relative) term anymore. Now is just seems to mean "low rpm". The top gear cruising RPM for the FJR and the C14 are within 220 RPM at 75mph - not a lot of difference. I doubt many riders with full face helmets could percieve 220 rpm. The other thing to be aware of is that if a downshift pass is executed on both bikes, the FJR will a ratio edge as the gap is wider to 4th than it is to 5th on the Kaw. Some real world roll on is the only real way to tell which has more passing authority.

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Fair point. I was simply using the term 'overdrive' as a lower RPM top gear.

I'd be curious to see the ratios of the 5 gears on the FJR compared to the 6 gears on the C14.

All in all, from what I'm hearing the C14 is, by no means, a slouch compared to other sport-tourers. Both the FJR and C14 have upsides and downsides that could be used to sway the buyer one way or the other.

For the most part, what we've heard so far is about power and some of the gadgets and do-dads. I'm anxious to hear some of the other comparisons such as handling and braking.

'06 FJR Overall gear ratio (top gear) = 3.92

Concours Overall gear ratio (top gear) = 3.402

FJR engine turns 15% faster for a given road speed.

So, if FJR rpm is 4,000 Concours is 3,480 rpm.

Constant Mesh said:

'06 FJR Overall gear ratio (top gear) = 3.92
Concours Overall gear ratio (top gear) = 3.402

FJR engine turns 15% faster for a given road speed.

So, if FJR rpm is 4,000 Concours is 3,480 rpm.

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Your figures are incorrect somewhere. Do the math

According to the chart above, only the FJR 1300 has an overdrive, NOT the C-14.

Jay

'04 FJR 1300