Question for "tick" experts

Just about to turn 23k on my '04 and YES contract runs out in a few months. Trying to decide if I have a ticker. There is audible ticking at idle, but where it seems the worst to me is at 3k rpm (give or take 100 rpm), light throttle or decel in that rpm range. REALLY noisey right there. Did a search but didn't find any references to tick noise at that particular rpm range. Anybody with a confirmed ticker notice it at this rpm range?? I also need to have the dealer address some trans issues while the bike is still under YES, but would like to have all my ducks in a row before talking to them. No, I don't really feel like removing the header to check for oil, especially since I believe The motor's gonna have to come out for the trans issues anyway. Just looking for input re; BAD tick at 3k rpm. No oil coming out the mufflers either.

TIA,

Dangerous Dave said:

Just about to turn 23k on my '04 and YES contract runs out in a few months. Trying to decide if I have a ticker. There is audible ticking at idle, but where it seems the worst to me is at 3k rpm (give or take 100 rpm), light throttle or decel in that rpm range. REALLY noisey right there. Did a search but didn't find any references to tick noise at that particular rpm range. Anybody with a confirmed ticker notice it at this rpm range?? I also need to have the dealer address some trans issues while the bike is still under YES, but would like to have all my ducks in a row before talking to them. No, I don't really feel like removing the header to check for oil, especially since I believe The motor's gonna have to come out for the trans issues anyway. Just looking for input re; BAD tick at 3k rpm. No oil coming out the mufflers either.TIA,

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Dave,

My ticker was quiet so noise is not the best indicator of a ticker situation. Some of the prognosis is that your oil level gets lower, mine did(and it did not smoke either) and fouled looking plugs from burning the oil leaking via the Exhaust valve guides. Mine always had good acceleration but had more problems at idle. Also, my valve check at 35k miles, all valves were in spec along with the compression.

To be same, make sure you have an OEM filter and stock cans when you go in for diagnosis....they seem to key in on this the most before they approve the repair with Yamaha or all bets may be off.

Good Luck.......

OTE(Geezer @ May 17 2007, 08:45 PM)

The ticking you hear is probably just the fuel injectors doing their thing.

+1

There's no mistaking the valve ticker... sounds bad!

I hope it's just the fuel injectors. I definately don't hear it all the time. It just catches my attention, normally around 3K RPM. 3700 miles now. "

Taken from an earlier post of mine. I'm in the same boat but a lot less miles, 4700 as of today. Sounds to me like a piece of metal rattling in a can at high speed, almost like a metal vibration. I should have had some one else listen to it at the Carlisle rideyesterday. I was too excited and forgot

03HiYoSilver said:

Dave,My ticker was quiet so noise is not the best indicator of a ticker situation. Some of the prognosis is that your oil level gets lower, mine did(and it did not smoke either) and fouled looking plugs from burning the oil leaking via the Exhaust valve guides. Mine always had good acceleration but had more problems at idle. Also, my valve check at 35k miles, all valves were in spec along with the compression.

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Hmmmm, it seems like the noise would be the first symptom. Isn't that why they call 'em tickers? Isn't it the valve guide wear that leads to the valve seal failure? I don't appear to have any noticeable oil consumption using the sightglass as my gauge. But like I said, the noise is very pronounced at 3k rpm, light throttle.

To be same, make sure you have an OEM filter and stock cans when you go in for diagnosis....they seem to key in on this the most before they approve the repair with Yamaha or all bets may be off.
Good Luck.......

Click to expand...

Yamaha filters and cans installed. No engine mods at all to this bike. All my money is in suspension, brakes, ergos, and toys.

PAFJR1300 said:

OTE(Geezer @ May 17 2007, 08:45 PM) The ticking you hear is probably just the fuel injectors doing their thing.

+1

There's no mistaking the valve ticker... sounds bad!

I hope it's just the fuel injectors. I definately don't hear it all the time. It just catches my attention, normally around 3K RPM. 3700 miles now. "

Click to expand...

I'm definately not an FJR tick expert, but I've been a Toyota Master Tech for 24 years now...doesn't sound like injectors to me, and I've listened to ALOT of injectors, with and without stethoscope. Hard to describe the difference, but injector tick has kind of a hollow sound to it. If I were pressed to describe it, an injector goes tink tink tink, but valvetrain noise goes TACK TACK TACK. The injectors are more tinny, valvetrain sounds harder. That's the best I can describe it. Might ride it to the dealer tomorrow and get them to listen to it. YES runs out early Sept, and the wife and I planned on riding from OH to FL in late Sept, so I better get on the stick NOW.

Dangerous Dave said:

There is audible ticking at idle, but where it seems the worst to me is at 3k rpm (give or take 100 rpm), light throttle or decel in that rpm range. REALLY noisey right there.

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I'm goin' with "Yup".

As a 'sticky' in this forum heading there is a sound bite of the ticking. Have you listened to it yet, does yours sound as same:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=18163

" at 3k rpm (give or take 100 rpm), light throttle or decel in that rpm range. REALLY noisey right there."

That's EXACTLY what my now-repaired '05 ticker did at 15k miles.

Really noticeable in 2nd or 3rd gear at light throttle or decel.

Mine was fixed at 18.5k miles and now has 44.5k miles and is running STRONG.

Good luck. If you take it to the dealer be sure to tell them you suspect it has the execessive valve guide wear problem that was an issue on the '04 and '05 bikes. If your dealer needs to discuss with another dealer who has fixed the problem tell them to talk to Service Mgr. at Tejas Motorsports in Highlands, Tx.

I just had my high mileage 04 FJR diagnosed for "The Tick". I didn't want to mess around, so I took it to Desert Valley Powersports (FJRGoodies). They have done over 20 ticker repairs and have the process down I believe.

Well, even though mine is loud sometimes, he declared it NOT to be a ticker. I am not so sure I have the utmost faith in his diagnosis however, as mine has gotten loud recently.

However, the tech told me that the tell tale sign of a ticker is when you hear the ticking in the 3000-3200 rpm range. He said if you have to hunt around to get the noise (like mine) then it's not a 'ticker', or the valve guide wear. Like I said, I have my doubts, but thought the information was applicable.

With all the repairs these guys have done, they should have a pretty good idea how to diagnose them, so I would say you've got a ticker.

Thanks SkooterG and MGM, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I took it to the dealer today on my lunch hour for them to have a listen. I've never dealt with this particular dealership before, but allegedly they have the highest number of Yami silver certified techs in the area, so I thought I'd give them a try. I've had plenty of dealings in the past with the other local dealers when I had my R1 as well as my VTX1800, and I came to the firm conclusion that none of them could be trusted with a whole motorcycle. I had a pretty good thing going for awhile with one dealer where I'd bring the bike in and show them the problem, then take the bike home, remove the defective parts, trade them for new parts, install them myself, and let them get paid for the warranty claim like they did the work. Much better that way, but I don't think that will work with this.

Aaaaaaanyway...I had them listen to it and they declared it was the reeds in the air injection system making the noise. Time to play the "********" card. So I made an appointment to have the TPS recall done there next week. Between now and then, I'm going to disconnect the air injection system and see if the noise goes away. If it does...magnanimous! I don't really want someone else taking my motor apart anyway. But if it doesn't go away (which I suspect will be the case), I don't want to pay for something that should be covered under warranty. If the noise is still there, I can go back next week and blow their theory out of the water, and start laying some of this good info on them to help edumacate them. I did call all the other local dealers and all disavowed any knowledge of any such malady with FJRs, so probably no benefit in going to any of the other local yay-hoos.

I've also got a clutch that doesn't disengage well when cold, causing a crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrunch when shifting into first from nuetral with a cold engine. I've changed the clutch fluid and bled it thoroughly. Also tried three different types of engine oil, all with no change in the condition. All shifts have now turned into multiple clicks instead of one smooth one. He didn't see a problem there either. Again, I'm not going in there with both barrels blazing, but I will make myself heard.

If anybody else has similar info to share, I'd love to hear it. I WILL get this addresed properly. If I have to go to Mama-yama to do it...so be it.

Dangerous Dave said:

I've also got a clutch that doesn't disengage well when cold, causing a crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrunch when shifting into first from nuetral with a cold engine.

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Well to some extent, this is completely normal - every bike with a wet clutch does this. So if you're going in complaining about things like this, they're probably not going to be especially sympathetic to diagnosing a subtle ticker issue. Don't take this wrong, but from 10K feet, it sounds like you're hunting for problems.

- Mark

Dangerous Dave said:

Just about to turn 23k on my '04 and YES contract runs out in a few months. Trying to decide if I have a ticker. There is audible ticking at idle, but where it seems the worst to me is at 3k rpm (give or take 100 rpm), light throttle or decel in that rpm range. REALLY noisey right there. Did a search but didn't find any references to tick noise at that particular rpm range. Anybody with a confirmed ticker notice it at this rpm range?? I also need to have the dealer address some trans issues while the bike is still under YES, but would like to have all my ducks in a row before talking to them. No, I don't really feel like removing the header to check for oil, especially since I believe The motor's gonna have to come out for the trans issues anyway. Just looking for input re; BAD tick at 3k rpm. No oil coming out the mufflers either.TIA,

Click to expand...

UMM say yes to your YES!

markjenn said:

Well to some extent, this is completely normal - every bike with a wet clutch does this. So if you're going in complaining about things like this, they're probably not going to be especially sympathetic to diagnosing a subtle ticker issue. Don't take this wrong, but from 10K feet, it sounds like you're hunting for problems.
- Mark

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Mark, this would be the first of the 20 or so bikes I've owned that does it, other than my first racebike (shown in my avatar) which had a Barnett clutch...notorious for not releasing. AFAIK, this bike still has the stock clutch. I buy and sell bikes semi-often, and at any given point in time there are at least 3 running bikes in the garage. It caught my attention from day one, being the first of my streetbikes to do it. And it doesn't just do it the first engagement of the day...I could live with that. It does it almost everytime, it just gets a little better as the bike warms up. Try this for me with your FJR; start the bike up cold in nuetral, squeeze the clutch, wait 2-3 seconds, then lightly try to engage 1st. Does it make a grinding sound (gear dogs clashing) continously until you finally JAM it into first gear? If so, now shift back to nuetral, let out the clutch, wait a few seconds, re-squeeze the clutch and try it again. Does it do the same thing? I'd like to hear the results of your test.

AS far as "hunting for problems", I've been a mechanic for almost 25 years now. I'm a very finicky mechanic which is why I have customers who haven't let anyone else work on their cars for DECADES. There is scarcely another mechanic out there that I trust to work on ANY of my vehicles. When I get done working on a car or bike, every little clip, clamp, bolt, and washer is back EXACTLY where it started, unless someone else put it in the wrong place, in which case I'll move it back to the right place. My experiences with the local bike shops for warranty claims and recalls on my R1 and VTX over the last 9 years have all been bad, as I always have to go back FIX the bike when they're done with it (parts left loose, turn signals not plugged in, vent hoses routed where they blistered paint off, etc). I CRINGE at the thought of someone I don't trust completely taking my bike and my motor apart. Am I anal about this stuff? Yup! But since I have compelling reason to believe I have a ticker (based on reasonably solid info gathered here), and I'm noticing a definate degradation in shift quality, I don't want to be stuck with expensive repairs on an expensive bike that I ride alot........next season after my warranty expires. If I were hunting for problems, I'd make them take apart the damn meter cluster to remove the strand of hair that's stuck to the inside of the tach lens. Been there since I bought it...I'll get to it one of these days.

Being the shop foreman at a new car dealership, I have to deal constantly with customers with unrealistic expectations. I know what it looks and feels like, so I try to avoid it in my own business dealings. If they're right and it's the air injection making the noise, I'll be delighted to be wrong, and will breathe a big sigh of relief. And for the record, the tick is anything but subtle at 3k rpm.

Thanks for your input, I'll pay extra attention to make sure I'm keeping myself in check.

D Dave

I've also got a clutch that doesn't disengage well when cold, causing a crrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrunch when shifting into first from nuetral with a cold engine. I've changed the clutch fluid and bled it thoroughly. Also tried three different types of engine oil, all with no change in the condition. All shifts have now turned into multiple clicks instead of one smooth one.

Click to expand...

Your shift problem could have an easy fix. You need to pull the entire shift lever and pivot off then lubricate the main pivot point as well as the hemi rod ends. Hey, it's normal maintenance even if doesn't cure your clicking shifts. I'm betting it does fix the click.

I've ridden several FJRs and they have all have crunchy shifts going from neutral to first after a minute or two of idle time. If the engine is started and you immediately try to shift into first it should go in --snick--.

ionbeam said:

Your shift problem could have an easy fix. You need to pull the entire shift lever and pivot off then lubricate the main pivot point as well as the hemi rod ends. Hey, it's normal maintenance even if doesn't cure your clicking shifts. I'm betting it does fix the click.
I've ridden several FJRs and they have all have crunchy shifts going from neutral to first after a minute or two of idle time. If the engine is started and you immediately try to shift into first it should go in --snick--.

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I'll gladly try both. Like I said, I REALLY don't want anyone else laying their hands on my bike unless it's absolutely necesary.

Thanks Alan, I'll report the results here later.

On gear crunching out of neutral, it's helpful to have some understanding of what's going on in your bike's clutch and tranny so you understand of where the crunch comes from.

When you pull the clutch, you're disengaging the clutch plates that connect the engine to the transmission. On a wet clutch bike, the two sets of interleaved clutch plates - one set connected to the engine and called the driving plates, and one set connected to the transmission called the driven plates - whirl around in an engine oil bath that always causes them to drag against one another.

If the bike is stationary and in gear, the driven plates are also stationary since they're locked to the rear wheel through the transmission. So the driving plates can't move the driven plates at all. But when you put the transmission in neutral, you are disconnecting the transmission countershaft from the mainshaft so the driven plates start spinning up to speed even if the clutch is pulled due to the drag. When you go from neutral to 1st, you're asking the tranny mainshaft, which is spinning due to clutch drag, to abruptly go from spinning to stationary. Crunch. It's unavoidable. The transmission is designed to handle it, but it is going to happen.

How much you get depends on clutch drag and how long the bike has been in neutral. After engine start, clutch drag is very high as the cold clutch plates are essentially welded together and need to be broken free. When the bike is cold, the clutch drag is higher because the oil viscosity is higher. And it varies from bike to bike. But all wet clutch bikes have clutch drag to some extent. It's the nature of the beast.

All this is leading up to understanding that there is some variance in this crunch problem, both due to how the bike is operated and due to sample-to-sample variance.

Off hand, it sounds like there is a problem here. But when I hear someone complaining about a neutral-to-first tranny crunch on the 1st shift of the day, red flags go off that the rider is complaining about nothing. And they go off at the dealer too. You're trying to convince these folks that you have a legitimate problem. The best strategy if you feel you have a big problem (like a ticker) is to concentrate on getting them to acknowledge this issue, not come in with a laundry list of little issues and one big one.

Just my advice, take it or leave it.

- Mark

markjenn said:

On gear crunching out of neutral, it's helpful to have some understanding of what's going on in your bike's clutch and tranny so you understand of where the crunch comes from.<BIG SNIP>

All this is leading up to understanding that there is some variance in this crunch problem, both due to how the bike is operated and due to sample-to-sample variance.

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Mark, I hope you're a relatively fast typist, otherwise you just spent a tremendous amount of time explaining the mechanics to a mechanic who's rebuilt more bike engines than he can count on all his fingers and toes. I know exactly how it works. I've even recut worn gear dogs by hand with a cutoff wheel when replacement gears were obsolete and unavailable. If you like, I'll send you some cool pics of some of the massive Falicon Billet clutch baskets I've installed in monster drag motors. Gnarly stuff really. Yes, I know how it works, and I know that eventually the frictions and steels should LET GO of each other...especially when putting a little pressure on them by trying to engage a gear. Since they're NOT letting go, I'd like to know why.

Off hand, it sounds like there is a problem here. But when I hear someone complaining about a neutral-to-first tranny crunch on the 1st shift of the day, red flags go off that the rider is complaining about nothing. And they go off at the dealer too. You're trying to convince these folks that you have a legitimate problem. The best strategy if you feel you have a big problem (like a ticker) is to concentrate on getting them to acknowledge this issue, not come in with a laundry list of little issues and one big one.
Just my advice, take it or leave it.

- Mark

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Did you actually READ my previous reply to you??? :blink: :blink: :blink: I've been the shop foreman at a dealership for almost 15 years. I do know what the other side of the coin looks like. Thanks again for your invaluable input.

markjenn said:

When the bike is cold, the clutch drag is higher because the oil viscosity is higher. - Mark

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I almost forgot to mention...oil viscosity is LOWER when it's cold, not higher. That's why it's 20w-40, not 40w-20.

Dangerous Dave said:

I had them listen to it and they declared it was the reeds in the air injection system making the noise. Time to play the "********" card. So I made an appointment to have the TPS recall done there next week. Between now and then, I'm going to disconnect the air injection system and see if the noise goes away. If it does...magnanimous! I don't really want someone else taking my motor apart anyway. But if it doesn't go away (which I suspect will be the case), I don't want to pay for something that should be covered under warranty. If the noise is still there, I can go back next week and blow their theory out of the water, and start laying some of this good info on them to help edumacate them. I did call all the other local dealers and all disavowed any knowledge of any such malady with FJRs, so probably no benefit in going to any of the other local yay-hoos.

Click to expand...

Well, today was the day. I removed the air injection valve completely from the bike and blocked off all the hoses. The result was (are you sitting down??)...no change whatsoever. Imagine that. So I went back to the dealer today (with the air injection valve in my pocket) to have my TPS recall done. I went to the owner/service manager and handed him the valve and told him the results. He asked what I wanted him to do, so I told him I wanted him to call Yamaha's technical assistance department and explain the situation and ask for their recommendations. He did, and was told to check valve clearances first. If they were out of spec, adjust them, charge me for the valve adjustment, and see if the noise goes away. If they were in spec...fix it. He then told me that if it did need fixed, he'd recommend that I take it somewhere else, as they've NEVER had an inline 4 cyl engine apart in their shop! Peachy. So now I guess I'll be starting a new thread in search of a yami dealer in the Dayton/Cincinnati/Columbus/Richmond area that knows **** from Shinola. <_<

Anyone with a dealer near me that fixed their ticker??