06 Twitchy Throttle fix--unplug o2 sensor?

BobbyBob · Jun 30, 2006

I have it from someone who should know that simply unplugging the o2 sensor on the 06 will cure 85% of the down-low twitchiness. Please don't ask me who said it

h34r: , but they REALLY should know what they're talking about. So I'd like some opinions from the local gurus here, whom I think are also very knowledgeable--you know who you are! :graduated:

Groo · Jun 30, 2006

The only way I'd do that is if it was done in conjunction with plugging a PCIII in at the same time.

SkooterG · Jun 30, 2006

Groo said:
The only way I'd do that is if it was done in conjunction with plugging a PCIII in at the same time.

+1

Otherwise its a half-assed fix. Not even that, more like a quarter-assed fix.

BobbyBob · Jun 30, 2006

SkooterG said:
Groo said:

The only way I'd do that is if it was done in conjunction with plugging a PCIII in at the same time.

Click to expand...

Otherwise its a half-assed fix. Not even that, more like a quarter-assed fix.

What is the basis for your statements?

twowheelnut · Jun 30, 2006

A big spinny head. :grin:

GAPS · Jun 30, 2006

BobbyBob said:
I have it from someone who should know that simply unplugging the o2 sensor on the 06 will cure 85% of the down-low twitchiness. Please don't ask me who said it

Ah well, the farg with it, .....who said it?

turbodave_98 · Jun 30, 2006

SkooterG said:
Groo said:

The only way I'd do that is if it was done in conjunction with plugging a PCIII in at the same time.

Click to expand...

+1

Otherwise its a half-assed fix. Not even that, more like a quarter-assed fix.

Skooter, explanation please, need more info for you 1/2, no 1/4 fix comments. thanks

BobbyBob · Jul 2, 2006

turbodave_98 said:
SkooterG said:

Groo said:

The only way I'd do that is if it was done in conjunction with plugging a PCIII in at the same time.

Click to expand...

+1

Otherwise its a half-assed fix. Not even that, more like a quarter-assed fix.

Click to expand...

Skooter, explanation please, need more info for you 1/2, no 1/4 fix comments. thanks

It was told to me by a research dude with DynoJet Research--you know, the guys that make the PCIII. He said, quote--"if you unplug the stock o2 that it would cure most of the issue, and once the power commander is out, then we can clean it up completely." Unquote. So I guess this guy is pretty much un-informed, huh skooter?

SkooterG · Jul 2, 2006

BobbyBob said:
So I guess this guy is pretty much un-informed, huh skooter?

Stand down there BobbyBoy. You want attitude? I gots plenty to give...............

Next time you ask for opinions, I will tell you exactly what I think - of you, though you prolly won't like that much.

Sorry, Dave, I hadn't come back to this post after my initial post. I was exaggerating a bit, but IMHO, if you are going to un-plug the O2 sensor, then you should also get a PCIII or the Techlusion thingamajig.

When unplugging the O2 sensor, you are now running solely on the FJR's base map. That will work, but it is still not ideal. Heck, my PCIII took a crap on me once and it was a while before I realized it. All that time I was running on the stock ECU map. It will work. Before closed loop fuel injection systems (with O2 sensor) like the FJR has, there were open loop systems (no O2 sensor) that run that way. But part of the problem with the FJR, is that the base map is also a bit lean, and still has drivability issues. When dynojet themselves made my map, they told me the stock map was quite lean, and they had to richen things up substantially throughout the map. Simply un-plugging the O2 sensor is not a complete solution. Sure, it will definitely help. In fact, for the guys with 06 FJRs complaining about the throttle, it would be a good experiment to simply un-plug the O2 sensor to see what effect it has. But to fully address fuel injection mapping issues, you need the PCIII which also alters the FJR's base map. So as for "curing 85% of the down low twitchiness"? Well, that's one opinion. Mine is that 85% is a bit optimistic. Regardless, I still say its a half-assed fix. Get the PCIII, and do the total fix.

BobbyBob · Jul 2, 2006

SkooterG said:
BobbyBob said:

So I guess this guy is pretty much un-informed, huh skooter?

Click to expand...

Stand down there BobbyBoy. You want attitude? I gots plenty to give...............

Next time you ask for opinions, I will tell you exactly what I think - of you, though you prolly won't like that much.

Sorry, Dave, I hadn't come back to this post after my initial post. I was exaggerating a bit, but IMHO, if you are going to un-plug the O2 sensor, then you should also get a PCIII or the Techlusion thingamajig.

When unplugging the O2 sensor, you are now running solely on the FJR's base map. That will work, but it is still not ideal. Heck, my PCIII took a crap on me once and it was a while before I realized it. All that time I was running on the stock ECU map. It will work. Before closed loop fuel injection systems (with O2 sensor) like the FJR has, there were open loop systems (no O2 sensor) that run that way. But part of the problem with the FJR, is that the base map is also a bit lean, and still has drivability issues. When dynojet themselves made my map, they told me the stock map was quite lean, and they had to richen things up substantially throughout the map. Simply un-plugging the O2 sensor is not a complete solution. Sure, it will definitely help. In fact, for the guys with 06 FJRs complaining about the throttle, it would be a good experiment to simply un-plug the O2 sensor to see what effect it has. But to fully address fuel injection mapping issues, you need the PCIII which also alters the FJR's base map. So as for "curing 85% of the down low twitchiness"? Well, that's one opinion. Mine is that 85% is a bit optimistic. Regardless, I still say its a half-assed fix. Get the PCIII, and do the total fix.

Skoot--thanks for clarifying what you said--that makes much more sense. I agree, the PCIII is the final fix--I was just kind of amazed that an employee of DynoJet would, in effect, state that unplugging the O2 was "most" of the fix; it kind of makes the PCIII seem like just some icing on the cake. Whats your opinion of Techlusion vs. Dyno-Jet and why?

Fred H. · Jul 2, 2006

I agree, the PCIII is the final fix

I disagree totally. There is absolutley NOTHING wrong with the mapping of the ECU and the power delivery from the engine. The whole problem is in the throttle pulley, and I can prove it.

Disconnecting the o2 sensor will prevent the engine from running in closed loop mode, and fuel mileage will suffer and the engine will run too rich. This will eventually result in more carbon build up in the combustion chamber and will shorten the life of the engine. It will also probably clog up the catalytic convertor over time.

SkooterG · Jul 2, 2006

Pretty bold statements there Fred.

Got any FACTS to back them up?

Fred H. · Jul 2, 2006

SkooterG said:
Pretty bold statements there Fred.
Got any FACTS to back them up?

I got better than facts. I have a bike that is fixed without any ECU tricks. The power delivery is smooth and predictable and all the drive line lash is gone. The problem is the progressive throttle pulley. Plain and simple. I don't know why it is so hard to understand, it is pretty obvious why the 06 has a sensitive throttle.

smitty141 · Jul 2, 2006

Wow, it just amazes me the moma Yamaha spends millions in R&D and unplugging this, or plug in that fixes everything. What ever happen to just go ride the f@cking bike. I think just about everyone over analyzes EVERYTHING on this bike. I think everyone (except me..I like mine the way it is) should sell this piece of ****. IMHO think every bike as its own little things that you as the rider has to adjust to.

Throw all that aftermarket crap in the *******, and go ride.... Just work the bike into doing what you want it to do... Okay, I feel better now.... :blink: Smitty

bmwhd · Jul 2, 2006

Fred H. said:
SkooterG said:

Pretty bold statements there Fred.

Got any FACTS to back them up?

Click to expand...

I got better than facts. I have a bike that is fixed without any ECU tricks. The power delivery is smooth and predictable and all the drive line lash is gone. The problem is the progressive throttle pulley. Plain and simple. I don't know why it is so hard to understand, it is pretty obvious why the 06 has a sensitive throttle.

+1 brother

I had and opportunity to ride an '05 back to back with my '06 today. Mine has Fred's shim, the spring unwound, cable slack taken up and +7 on the CO. His '05 is bone stock. The bikes felt like identical twins with respect to throttle response and feel and both are as smooth and linear as any bike I've ridden.

Using the PCIII (when one is available) will no doubt offer even more opportunities to improve things. Only a dynojet run will tell for sure. However, all the bikes I've used PCs on before suffered mpg declines even with minor tweaks to the map. For me, mpg is critical on this bike and power is all I could hope for already. No need for airbox or exhaust mods so keeping mpg up overrides all else for me. YMMV of course.

SkooterG · Jul 2, 2006

Better than facts? Wow! Are you a deity?

You know what Fred? I am not impressed. Since your are an engineer and all, you should be doing much better.

You have obviously treated the symptoms of whatever problem you have. Good for you. You have helped yourself and many others. Good on you again. And I truly mean that.

However, you still have not proven that the throttle pulley, and the throttle pulley only, is the root cause. You may have convinced yourself of that prognosis, but you have not proven it to me. From my point of view, you simply could have treated the symptoms of bad FI mapping or even something completely and altogether different with your pulley fix. Am I wrong? Well then prove it with some science/engineering type standards. Not because, "I said so".

From what I see, at this point your mind is closed, and you seem more concerned with convincing everyone your theory is correct, than seeking out any other possible causes and solutions of the problem. You ignore other people's input, refuse to consider even remotely, other explanations, and simply push your own agenda.

The funny thing is, you may be 100% correct with your throttle pulley theory. But by refusing to consider any other root cause or solution but your own, it's tough for me to consider your solution with any true merit. You just come off as a stubborn know-it-all who is so caught up with your own self-importance that you are blind to any other possibilities. From my point of view, you do not seek the truth of this issue, but only try to advance and then rigidly defend any perceived attacks to, your solution.

Damn. That was harsh. Sorry. Really.

Rickster · Jul 3, 2006

There's some truth and facts to what all you are saying, but only the test of time will change the theory into some formula. The '06 has only been in the US for a few months, and a year from now -- the answers will be obvious and proven. Time proves all -- so we'll have to give it some time.

I believe that the '06 model (mine at least) takes a greater deal of rider input finess on the throttle to control RPM below 4K. Fred's shim trick appears to fix this.

Fred -- I have a question on your shim fix. What change to throttle input results from orig (i.e. approx how many degrees from closed to WOT before and after?)

And until someone unplugs and 02 sensor, and get's a few years with no trouble -- we won't know. Until the PCIII comes out -- we won't know. For now -- all any of us can do is experiment, and try to get this bike exactly how we want it.

fact (fkt) n.

1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact.

2. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.

So -- the fix is a fact to Fred -- his real experience makes it his fact. Unless you try it -- it'll be your theory.

Bearly Flying · Jul 3, 2006

Fred -- I have a question on your shim fix. What change to throttle input results from orig (i.e. approx how many degrees from closed to WOT before and after?)

The throttle still takes the same amount of degree's from idle to wide open. The stock throttle pulley is exponential in it's travel.

Idle = 0 degrees

25% Throttle rotation = 50% of wide open

50% Throttle rotation = 75% of wide open

75% Throttle rotation = 85% of wide open

100% Throttle rotation = 100% of wide open

What the Mig wire did was equalize the throttle to a more linear response

Idle = 0 degrees

25% Throttle rotation = 25% of wide open

50% Throttle rotation = 50% of wide open

75% Throttle rotation = 75 % of wide open

100% Throttle rotation = 100% of wide open

So what Fred did was to slow down throttle response in the lower end, therefore making the bike easier to control at lower throttle settings

Sorry Skooter, but the PC III will not correct the exponential throttle pulley of the 06. Fred's Mig wire fix will.

twowheelnut · Jul 3, 2006

Pie, anyone? No? How 'bout some cheese, then?

Here's my take... there is nothing perfect in life (well, 'cept for me, of course). People ***** on end about the heat problems associated with 1st gen FJR's. Me? No bad heat juju. Peeps ***** to high heaven on 1st gen handle bars. Word, I'm one of 'em. Me and Larry got together and developed his 6 degree risers (you're welcome, by the way). Now, come the '06 owners with their individually perceived problems... I'd say the better chunk of the class of '06 have no issues with the throttle response. A few have been very vocal about it. Fred-H offered his solution and for him and others, it seems to work. By the way Fred, that solution was brilliant, but as skooter points out, you need to dig deeper. You stopped at the mechanics and have not addressed the electronics. Not that that's right or wrong, but if you trip the throttle fantastic on your solution, then an entire portion of the equation is deemed to be null. Rube Goldberg, comes to mind here. In gen 1 bikes, this was the the perceived purveyor of bad throttle mojo. Not that I believe that the PCIII is of any real value, cuz I think that it's money tossed out the window - again, that's simply one man's (astute and correct) observation/opinion. I have nothing but happy-happy, joy-joy for the stock set-up.

Don't forget, these bikes are not designed for the individual. They are designed for the mass average. Very, very few of us are 'mass average'.

Much peace to y'all and love a cow whenever you can...

- Mahatma

06 Twitchy Throttle fix--unplug o2 sensor?

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