GEN I paranoia???

BCJeff · Aug 21, 2008

Wondering about opinions regarding my concern about buying a 2004A off a friend of mine. I love the bike and have ridden it lots including a 3000mi. one week trip this July. He will sell it to me but I fear that there is the slightest bit of ticking and I do not want to buy a ticker. It has 16,000 miles and is in great shape. I am wondering if all Gen I bikes eventually become tickers or is it still thought that they make up a minority. I have read this forum extensively over the past year. I would rather buy a Gen. II because of all the changes, but I am in Canada and it is a bit of a hassle to buy a bike from a distance sight unseen the ship it to the border. It would be better if I could fly in and ride home but it seems the bikes that I would buy are far from here (Victoria, BC) and this bike would be sooo easy. In fact it's in my garage right now on loan! Any thoughts?

Ignacio · Aug 21, 2008

If it's going to gnaw at you...don't buy it. Stick with a Gen 2 that do not tick.

A minority of Gen I bikes have become tickers....perhaps 1 out of 7. Nobody has a definitive answer.

Some contend...or there's some plausible logic that all Gen I will become tickers, but then we have a number including Skooter's at 150,000 that has never been an oil-consuming ticker and mine is silent at 90,000 miles.

16,000 is in the meaty period that tickers tend to develop....drop the headers and look for oil in the exhaust areas.

Toecutter · Aug 21, 2008

If it ticks, it'll get fixed for free, then be better than before.

Man, that's one good friend....

Ignacio · Aug 21, 2008

Toecutter said:
If it ticks, it'll get fixed for free, then be better than before.

And on that point.....I would start to wonder when Yamaha will pull the plug on that courtesy. Certainly I don't know when it will happen, but I'm sure it will happen. As the last '04 and some of the '05 bikes are now getting past even the YES warranty periods...I can well imagine we'll hear of a time in the next year or two that a Gen I ticker won't be fixed.

...I'm just sayin'.

BCJeff · Aug 21, 2008

Actually I have been told by a couple of sources that Yamaha Canada won't do anything about a ticker so that means I would be on my own. Sad but true.

mikeyb · Aug 22, 2008

What would be the cost of preventive ticker maintenance? If there is such a thing. Then factor in the additional cost of a GEN2, flight, shipping import duty etc. Then you can make the decision based on something tangible like a dollar amount. You like the specific bike that is in your garage right now so what better endorsement is there for that bike.

On a side note you have quite a friend that lets you put 3000 miles on his bike.

ionbeam · Aug 22, 2008

There is no preventative maintenance that can be done for a ticker. I believe the current thinking about the root cause is that the stem seals are too tight, therefore not allowing sufficient lubrication to the hot exhaust valve stems. This leads to excess wear of the valve guides. The 'fix' is looser stem seals. The get - it is supposed to prevent valve guide wear, the source of the ticking sound. The give - oil consumption will go up so much that you might notice it.

A SWAG (scientific wild *** guess) is that you would be out $2,500; +/- $500 to have it repaired out of your own pocket. If you had a new Gen I you may get away with changing just the stem seals with the new looser part. If the engine has been run for any appreciable amount of miles you should really have the guides changed. This entails removing the entire cylinder head and having the old guides removed and new guides installed via a machining process. Some dealers can do this process and others have to schedule machine shop time outside the dealership.

J-DADDY · Aug 22, 2008

fjrwannabe-

Perhaps a written contract stating his personal warrantee that he will pay for (or split the cost of) an eventual ticking problem should it arrise within an agreed mileage...say 30K or so?

Just a thought...

My '05 has 13xxx mi and is quite silent...

JC

Checkswrecks · Aug 22, 2008

Been there had one.

First, there's no preventive mx. They don't tick and then a few may.

My personal experience is like many others in that Mama Yama has stood up for their product with respect to this problem and a couple of others (TPS, altitude ECU). I'm the second owner, it started ticking at about 12000 miles and the only reason I took it in at 18000 was because it was January and I couldn't ride it as much. I'd have had no problem riding it through another season if I had to. Even so, as second owner of a 4 year old bike that was long out of warranty (non-YES to start) Yamaha picked up the whole tab. We went over the part numbers of the new valve guides to make sure we weren't inadvertently putting in new ones of the old style, so I consider it as fixed as a new bike, plus I got the 25000 mile valve check done a bit early and didn't have to pay for it.

My question if I were in your shoes would be whether Yamaha Canada is providing the same support.

Bob

2004 silver (soon for sale)

2007 red (soon to get registered)

BCJeff · Aug 24, 2008

Thanks for your thoughts. The bike actually has 12,000 miles not 16,000. My error. I was curious to find out if the ratio had changed from one in seven to a higher number as the Gen. I bikes had aged.

In response to some comments.....

Yamaha Canada will not take any responsibility for a tick out of warranty, and that's one year here.

Yes this friend is an incredibly generous guy. That makes it impossible to haggle with him. He is quite happy to let me ride it or buy it if I want. He doesn't need to or care if he sells it. I am just not comfortable borrowing it forever and I know he thinks it's worth more than it is.

I think the best idea is to drop the exhaust headers to see if there is any oil visible if we start talking about selling/buying. Any one know how big of a job that is....the number of shop hours that is?

Or not...maybe just wait for a Gen II to show up!

Thaks again!

Kevin Daly · Aug 24, 2008

Its actually a small percentage of the Gen 1's that do this I would not worry too much. It certianly had not been a problem for me at 29000 miles

Checkswrecks · Aug 25, 2008

You don't need to drop the headers or even remove the plastic. Use a mechanic's stethoscope or even a piece of steel about 2 feet long and simply place it at each of the exhaust valves. (I use a 18" extension for a 3/8" socket drive.) If there's a tapping sound (tick) you'll hear it without question.

Bob

GEN I paranoia???

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