Gen II Headlight failure

dcarver · Sep 26, 2011

Need some help -both headlights dead. All other electrical systems appear sat.

Troubleshooting done so far -

Disconnect BlueSeas (and by association, all farkles)
Check 25A headlight fuse - hot on both legs
Remove Brodie ignition harness - just in case?
Headlight relay 'clicks' OK - for whatever that's worth
Test Soltek lights - OK. Inference is that since Solteks connect to high beam wiring via AutoSwitch, any problem (short) would yield Solteks inoperative.
The AutoSwitch has a bi-color LED that illuminates when transitioning from low beam to high beam (trigger) then again from high beam to low beam (set). It is NOT illuminating at all.
Pulled headlight relay - NO power at either of the heavy gauge wires (blue-green? and yellow)engine running or not.
Headlight relay does have power on one 'pin', engine on or off, ignition on, when high beam is selected. See diagram below.

Hi/Lo beam relay, connector viewed female side

----------- --> Grn/Blue

----------- --> Yellow

pwr ---> | | |

hi beam on

It appears that either:

No 'B+' power is available to be switched by the relay
The 'Engine is running' signal is not

Questions?

Do headlights source power via ignition switch? Any possibility the iggie switch is bad?
Where can I check the 'Engine is running' signal and how does it control the headlight circuit?
What to check next?

Thanks in Advance guys -

My troubleshooting tonight was cut short by early darkness and the fact I'm bone tired from doing actual phsycial work this last weekend, :lol:

BTW, the failure occurred, or was first noticed, at startup this AM. Hmm, thinks me, I have my aux Solteks wired in parallel (direct via relay and via OEM headlight circuit and AutoSwitch) so I'll just ride to work with Solteks. Of course, just my luck, I blazed an CHP on 58 in early dawn light, he lit me up, pulled me over, but he was nice and let me go when I explained the situation and proved my headlights were dead and it IS getting into deer season out here and running blind on a bike is dangerous and I need to keep my job and..... A LEO who understands = priceless and having a backup bike (Wabs) = Beyond Priceless!

wfooshee · Sep 26, 2011

2 relays control the lights, not just the hi/lo. There is a headlamp relay which energizes the lights on engine start, and then the hi/lo relay switches according to the hi/lo switch setting on the handlebar.

Wire colors:

Headlight relay:

Red/yellow 2 times, key-switched 12V

Yellow/white, grounded by ECU on engine startup to energize the relay

Green/blue, 12V to hi/lo relay when this relay energizes.

Hi/Lo relay:

Green/blue, 12Volts from headlamp relay

Black, ground

Blue/black, 12V from dimmer switch when high beam is selected

Green, 12V out to headlamp low beam

Yellow 12V out to headlamp high beam

There will be no 12-volt level at the hi/lo relay if the headlamp relay isn't working. Lights need 12 volts on the Green/blue. If the dimmer switch is set to high, you'll see 12 volts on the Blue/black wire and the relay will click, but no lights work. It just selected hi beam, but without 12V on the Green/blue there's nothing to switch from high to low. The hi/lo relay will click with the key on, without engine start, just by flipping the hi/lo switch on the grip.

You're troubleshooting the wrong relay, I think. The fact that you say the Green/blue wire is not hot with the engine running tells me the headlamp relay (the other one) isn't working.

wfooshee · Sep 26, 2011

Holy crap! I looked up and my post was there, along with another which had three copies of it!! I didn't do it!! Some weird keyboard flake-out or something. Disregard this extraneous post.

bramfrank · Sep 27, 2011

Or, you could be suffering from a failure of the S6 or S7 ground spiders . . . . the ones that Yamaha claims don't fail. You won't have been the first.

If indeed you have suffered such a failure you must file a report clearly stating what has happened with the NHTSA. Yamaha cheaped out on the recall and only replaced the main harness when there is the front sub-harness that can also fail and take out your lighting - more likely in fact after the recall has been performed than before.

I can see another recall coming.

Keep us posted, please.

ionbeam · Sep 27, 2011

I may be obtuse, but did you check to see if the headlight bulbs are actually bad? Perhaps just a little ohm action to confirm that you aren't yet another victim of a double burn-out.

BwanaDik · Sep 27, 2011

ionbeam said:
I may be obtuse, but did you check to see if the headlight bulbs are actually bad? Perhaps just a little ohm action to confirm that you aren't yet another victim of a double burn-out.

+1 Classic! I was thinking the same thing. "Is it plugged in?" :lol: :lol:

Occam's razor

wfooshee · Sep 27, 2011

ionbeam said:
I may be obtuse, but did you check to see if the headlight bulbs are actually bad? Perhaps just a little ohm action to confirm that you aren't yet another victim of a double burn-out.

If he doesn't have 12 volts on the Green/blue wire from the headlight relay after engine start then he needs to find out why.

ionbeam · Sep 27, 2011

wfooshee said:
If he doesn't have 12 volts on the Green/blue wire from the headlight relay after engine start then he needs to find out why.

IF is still in question. I've seen a lot of troubleshooting take place because the basics weren't checked first. Testing the headlight bulbs is simple and pretty much error free. Having 12 volts on the G/B wire is conditional whereas testing the bulb itself is not. That said, Don has proven to be pretty good at diagnostics without rookie errors so I'm pretty sure the bulbs are good but... let's just be sure before burning a lot of time and effort chasing ghosts.

As Walter says, with the engine running, at the headlight power relay, there should be 12V on the Red/Yellow all the time and the Yellow/White wire should be ground. If these conditions are met there should be 12 volts on the Green/Blue wire. If the running conditions are met and there is no 12V on the Green/Blue wire the relay is most likely bad, something that can be tested and confirmed.

dcarver · Sep 27, 2011

wfooshee said:
2 relays control the lights, not just the hi/lo. There is a headlamp relay which energizes the lights on engine start, and then the hi/lo relay switches according to the hi/lo switch setting on the handlebar.

Wire colors:

Headlight relay:

Red/yellow 2 times, key-switched 12V

Yellow/white, grounded by ECU on engine startup to energize the relay

Green/blue, 12V to hi/lo relay when this relay energizes.

Hi/Lo relay:

Green/blue, 12Volts from headlamp relay

Black, ground

Blue/black, 12V from dimmer switch when high beam is selected

Green, 12V out to headlamp low beam

Yellow 12V out to headlamp high beam

There will be no 12-volt level at the hi/lo relay if the headlamp relay isn't working. Lights need 12 volts on the Green/blue. If the dimmer switch is set to high, you'll see 12 volts on the Blue/black wire and the relay will click, but no lights work. It just selected hi beam, but without 12V on the Green/blue there's nothing to switch from high to low. The hi/lo relay will click with the key on, without engine start, just by flipping the hi/lo switch on the grip.

You're troubleshooting the wrong relay, I think. The fact that you say the Green/blue wire is not hot with the engine running tells me the headlamp relay (the other one) isn't working.

Aha! Was not aware that 2 relays are involved.. I wonder the where the 1st relay, or 'source' relay is located? My Hi/Lo in under front left panel.

bramfrank said:
Or, you could be suffering from a failure of the S6 or S7 ground spiders . . . . the ones that Yamaha claims don't fail. You won't have been the first.

If indeed you have suffered such a failure you must file a report clearly stating what has happened with the NHTSA. Yamaha cheaped out on the recall and only replaced the main harness when there is the front sub-harness that can also fail and take out your lighting - more likely in fact after the recall has been performed than before.

I can see another recall coming.

Keep us posted, please.

No, not me. I was one of the first to be spider bit and currently run a Brodie Spider-Fix harness.

ionbeam said:
I may be obtuse, but did you check to see if the headlight bulbs are actually bad? Perhaps just a little ohm action to confirm that you aren't yet another victim of a double burn-out.

wfooshee said:
ionbeam said:

I may be obtuse, but did you check to see if the headlight bulbs are actually bad? Perhaps just a little ohm action to confirm that you aren't yet another victim of a double burn-out.

Click to expand...

:rofl: Yes, I DID check with a known good bulb!

If he doesn't have 12 volts on the Green/blue wire from the headlight relay after engine start then he needs to find out why.

True dat.. Now to find where that thing is located...

ionbeam · Sep 27, 2011

Where in your worst nightmare would you find the headlight relay? Behind the headlight buckets!

The G/B wire also goes to the power connector for the Gen II stock heated grips. The connector has four wires -- Black; Green/White; Red/Black; Green/Blue. Finding power here means the headlight relay is good, no power means the headlight relay is likely bad. No power at the grip heater connector is the indication that it is worthwhile accessing the buried headlight relay. If the grip heater power connector HAS 12V then the headlight relay is working. If the grip heater connector has power then the next item that is suspect is Coupler #5 Front Cowling Wire Harness, a 10 pin connector.

I see the headlight circuit has been tested with a known good bulb. What did you find on the heated grip connector?

dcarver · Sep 27, 2011

ionbeam said:
If the grip heater connector has power then the next item that is suspect is Coupler #5 Front Cowling Wire Harness, a 10 pin connector.

What did you find on the heated grip connector?

Haven't found the heated grip connector yet, ran out of daylight and enthusiasm last night... Will look for it tonight.

Does the ten pin connector look like this? It lives on left hand side, under a sub panel?

More info hereon previously discovered bad connector..

Thank You all for the advice - will follow up ASAP

dcarver · Sep 27, 2011

ionbeam said:
Where in your worst nightmare would you find the headlight relay? Behind the headlight buckets!

What did you find on the heated grip connector?

I can't find the headlight relay to save my life.

I think I found the heated grip connector - a white 2-wire connector - does it look like this? If so, no VDC either side, engine running.

Next to it was this guy - what's it for?

I did find other relays, and for the relationship game (the one you are looking for is just to the xx/yy of the one you found, hopefully)..

Brake relay, right hand side, ahead of battery

Turn signal/Emergency relay, RHS, left of battery, mounts to tab on headlight inner frame.

Hi/Lo beam dimmer switch relay, left hand side.

...but what I'm looking for, the headlight relay, I don't see!

:****:

Does anyone have a pix or suggestions where to look for the 'MIA' relay?

Wow, what a long strange trip it's been. I'm very happy KrZy8 decided to have a caniption fit here at home and not on the NERDS run. What a good gurl, barf in the backyard, not in front of company!

When all is said and done, I am going to document with greater clarity all Gen2 relay locations and identifying markings for future reference..

TomInPA · Sep 27, 2011

have you pulled the nose cowling yet? On the Gen I all the relays are on the subframe behind the instruments, and pulling the front end off reveals all.

HIGHLANDER · Sep 28, 2011

Both the blue and the white connectors are for the heated grip controller.

I have both my FJR's stripped of all body work so if you need a pic of something let me know. I dunno where the damn relay is ?

wfooshee · Sep 28, 2011

Yeah, Carv, the nose cowl has to come off, the relay will be under that cowl, behind the meter panel. (Ahead of the meter panel in relationship to the bike's travel direction.) You WILL NOT EVER SEE IT as long as the nose plastic is on the bike.

That means the windshield and its stuff has to come off, the fairings have to come off, but first the handy-dandy "whadda-they-do?" vent panels have to come off. Hell, find kaitsdads gen II fairing and Cowl thread in the FAQ section.

HIGHLANDER · Sep 28, 2011

There are two relays under the red strapped item(fuse ? not sure what it is, did't look close enough ) in this pic, but they have 4 wires coming out both of them and the colors don't match up to colors specified eary in the thread.

HIGHLANDER · Sep 28, 2011

wfooshee said:
Yeah, Carv, the nose cowl has to come off, the relay will be under that cowl, behind the meter panel. (Ahead of the meter panel in relationship to the bike's travel direction.) You WILL NOT EVER SEE IT as long as the nose plastic is on the bike.

That means the windshield and its stuff has to come off, the fairings have to come off, but first the handy-dandy "whadda-they-do?" vent panels have to come off. Hell, find kaitsdads gen II fairing and Cowl thread in the FAQ section.

wfooshee, I've been in the garage three times now and still don't see it ?

HIGHLANDER · Sep 28, 2011

looking up under the clutch side of bike

From the battery side

Underneath the front

left side relay, two wire, I think DC showed this one ?

two relays, four wires each at the battery

JR'SFJR · Sep 28, 2011

I have the cowl off mine. In front of the battery on the top level is the main fuse and brake relay. Directly below, is the head light and fan relay. Need at least the right lower removed to view the relay from below. I have everything identified except for the lean angle sensor?

Gen II Headlight failure

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