Welp, apparently my diagnostic skills aren't so shabby cause it has a dealership stumped too.
First I'll go back over the symptoms as I stated earlier just to get everyone on the same wagon.
I went to ride the bike, turned the key on, hit the starter button and it fired right up, ran perfectly fine for about 5 seconds then it shut completely off as if you hit the kill switch. Make sure you read that right,,,, it was running perfectly fine then just shut off as if you killed the ignition or shut the fuel off. I tried to restart it and nothing,,, nothing at all happened. Not even a poof, pop or spit. The day before, it was fine, the week before it was fine,,,, two weeks before it did 6700 miles across the USA perfectly fine. I ran it up to 125mph right next to the Bonneville Salt Flats and it was me that backed off. The motorcycle still have plenty left even though it was laden down with gear. The bike averaged something like 43mpg over that 6700 miles with the best being something like 51mpg. I changed the oil just before the trip and after 6700 miles guess how much oil it used? Pretty much none, maybe a 1/4 of a quart at the most. In other words just before this, the bike ran strong, got great mileage, didn't use oil, didn't smoke or anything. It did have the ubiquitous "FJR ticking" which really didn't seem to hurt a thing.
The only other thing that could be considered "weird" is that a couple of weeks before it quit running I washed it and when I turned the key on, it cranked up automatically without having to hit the starter button. I shut it off immediately and tried it again, same thing. I shut it off for the second time and fiddled with the starter button. Hit the key again and this time all was normal, hit the button and it started right up as it had been doing. For the next two weeks, it started and ran perfectly normal.
I initially thought the weird key thing might have something to do with the problem so I started troubleshooting there. I removed the kill switch assy. and visually looked at it and found nothing out of the ordinary. I did not however check it with a meter. After a bit, I discovered that the kill switch, the clutch interlock and the side stand interlock would prevent the bike from not only running, but it would also prevent the bike's starter from spinning or cranking over so it was rather easy to rule those possible issues out since the bike would crank all day as long as the battery was good. I then checked the fuses and no blown fuses were found. It seemed as if it was getting fuel as I could smell raw gas.
At this time I figured it was a spark issue caused by something like a ignition module or the computer and I was tired of fiddling with it so I took to a mechanic. I told them all of the above, every bit of it pretty much exactly as above. I asked them to check if the bike had had it's Throttle Position sensor replaced under a factory recall and if it had not, to replace it during the diagnostic. I also wanted the valve clearances checked while all this was going on since they were already up under the tank and it had 37K miles on it.
Welp, a week later I'm told the reason it will not start is because it doesn't have enough compression. It is supposed to have something like 199psi and it only has something like 130psi. Now,,, please stay with me here as it get rather confusing for me. The bike ran great, got great mileage and used no oil yet the compression is so bad it will not run in the blink of an eye??:headscrat Not only that but some how, the bike started and ran perfectly fine for a few seconds then it suddenly remembered that it had terrible compression and shut completely off as if you hit the kill switch, then wouldn't build enough compression to start, pop, poof or even spit if tried with starting fluid????
Here is the scenario that they ran by me-
First off they said my air filter was completely stopped up which caused the engine to suck air in from any available source which happened to be around the throttle bodies and what not. The unfiltered air then apparently contaminated the oil which wore out the valve guides and those leaking valve guides formed deposits on the backs of the intake valves and possibly inside the ports. Welp, apparently the deposits caused the valves not to seat and thus,, no compression.
Lets analyze the above for a bit.
Counter point #1- I checked the air filter before I left on the trip and it was fine. I checked it today and that air filter that they said was so stopped up with dirt wasn't all that dirty. Less than a 1/16th of an inch build-up at one end of the filter {roughly 1/3 coverage} and at the other end of the filter there was hardly any build-up. Matter of fact, you could see light through the filter all the way around it. I have had K&N filter in one manner or another for over 20years now and I can tell you that filter was no where near stopped up. Furthermore, the filter showed absolutely no signs of collapse as I have seen when other filters were severely stopped up. Basically, the engine pulls such a vacuum trying to intake air that the filter collapses on itself. Like I said, absolutely no signs of this. I say the filter is an absolute non issue here.
Counter Point #2- I can see deposits getting lodged between the valve and the seat causing a complete loss of compression. It happens, I know that. But this bike has four cylinders, two intake valves per cylinder and two exhaust valves per cylinder. That means that for this engine to be running, then shut off completely without even a pop, poof or spit, multiple pieces of deposits would have had to have fallen between the valve and the seat on at least one valve in each of those four cylinders at the same time!!! What are the chances of this happening all at once and causing the perfectly running engine to shut completely off as if you hit the kill switch????
Counter Point #3- I can not argue with the compression gage. If it says my compression is low by the specs, it's low. Why it's low is a point of contention with me though. As I said, this bike ran like absolutely new. Had plenty of power, got great fuel mileage and had no excessive oil consumption. Don't you think had the engine had such a sever lack of compression it would have shown symptoms such as excessive oil consumption, terrible lack of power and possibly oil smoke, especially on deceleration if as they say was due to worn valve guides creating deposits??? If the lack of compression was due to lets say,,, bad valve seats due to worn guides allowing the valves to rock and beat the seats or simply because the valves needed adjustment then I would think I would have had plenty of the same symptoms as already mentioned such as the lack of power, bad mpg and more than likely, I would have been having sever hard starting issues {I've had plenty of bikes that had their valves too tight, I know the symptoms well} don't you think?
Counter point #4- Once again, I can not argue with the compression gage. If it says my compression is low by the specs, it's low. Why it's low is a point of contention with me though. Could my compression be low because the cylinder walls have been wiped completely of oil? Do not laugh as I have had this happen to me once with a car but admittedly, it's motor was well worn at the time. Basically, the engine got out of time and by the time we got it back into time, we had cranked repeatedly and as said, there was no oil on the cylinders and with no oil, no compression. A old mechanic suggested that I squirt oil into each cylinder and try it again. Welp, it started right up and I never again had a problem starting that engine. I was stunned to say the least. Old fart knew his stuff I reckon. Anyway,,,, I'm thinking that this is where my low compression is originating from. This seems a hell of alot more plausible that the "four way simultaneous valve seat deposit" theory discussed above to me, how about ya'lls thoughts?
Finally, they want to remove the head and rebuild/de-deposit it and then replace it. This will be big bucks folks and I know dern well that if their theory of the "four way simultaneous valve seat deposit" doesn't pan out then I will still have a non running engine and will still have to fix the thing. I honestly think that the problem here is either in ignition or fueling. Now, they have told me that it has spark and it has fuel so I will trust them on that {I have not personally seen the injectors fire nor have I seen or felt the spark}. But,,, an engine can have plenty of both {spark or fuel} and it will still do no good unless that spark or fuel is delivered at the appropriate time right??? So, trusting the mechanic and assuming that the engine does indeed have both spark and fuel I think this problem is due to either the spark or fuel timing being way the heck off. I feel there is an extremely small chance that the engine could have jumped mechanical timing too but since it happened to quickly and without warning I sorta doubt it {although I suppose the ticking could have been something to do with the chain???}.
Please remember, I am not trying to say the present mechanic is trying to hoodoo me nor do I think they are being negligent in their root cause analysis. I do think that sometimes a unique problem pops up that stumps people, even smart people and I think this is the case here. They are fixated on the compression issue I think and while that might be a problem,,,, that in my eyes simply could not have been the original problem unless the lack of compression was the result of the engine jumping mechanical time??
Bottom line, the engine was running perfectly and all of a sudden,,, it shut completely off. It did not sputter, pop, poof, spit or try running on less than 4 cylinders. It just shut off as if the fuel or ignition was removed. Also remember the coincidence of the automatically starting condition when the key was turned on. A computer issue? Switch issue??? I just can't believe the "four way simultaneous valve seat deposit" is the root case of this whole ordeal.
Now,,, as if being the person who solved a mystery that vexed not one, not two, but apparently three mechanics with at least one of those mechanics being completely competent {more than competent as he is apparently quite a great mechanic and this is not a reflection on him at all} you have to opportunity to make a buck.
[SIZE=14pt] If anyone can positively help me out with this one I will give you 50$. You will get well deserved respect AND 50$$$$$[/SIZE]:rocker:
To qualify for the above 50 bucks I will need you idea or remedy given to me and put into practice before either me or the original mechanic stumble upon the cure. I am brutally honest person though, if your idea, opinion or cure fixes my problem you will get the 50 buck and I promise you that.
BTW,,, I read the link to the other hard start problem. Surely the dealer has ruled out the WOT/low voltage thing??
