'07 electrical gremlin?

[3dogs]

My dealer did not replace the battery. The tech from the independent shop that came and got me took me to the battery shop, then we swapped it out.And we did have his voltmeter when we returned to the bike - and put it on the old battery and the new, pre-swap. The oem battery had recovered enough to light the candle again - but was not taking much of a charge (as I mentioned above).

What battery testing was performed before the battery was swapped out? Sounds like none--just a wild-assed-guess.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out - they called around closing time, they have tested the charging system, R/R, and everything is operating at primo capacity. The battery appears (to me) to be drawn down slowly but surely.... it took 100 miles for the new battery to show signs of distress, the next day it was much worse.

These statements defies logic.

If the charging system was tested and operating at "primo" capacity how is it that the battery is going dead while you ride the bike?

You should ask the dealer how they tested the charging system and get numbers from them, ie, charging voltage and apmerage output at 4000 rpm etc... They should also preform voltage drop tests between the battery and the charging system output to rule out a bad connection/wire.

Based on what you have told us so far my prediction is that the dealer will not perform any further testing but instead start replacing parts (at your expense) and see what fixes the problem. Afterall they have a parts department and they don't have to know how to read a volt/amp meter to find the correct part numbers and swapp them out.

 

[blakebird]

What battery testing was performed before the battery was swapped out? Sounds like none--just a wild-assed-guess.

Not to sound too harsh, but I think I laid out the string of events above.

The battery was swapped on-site in the parking lot I pushed it to. We put the tester on the old battery there, which was able to start the bike after a "rest" while we went to buy the new one. We measured voltage there, then swapped the batteries and measured the new one.

If the charging system was tested and operating at "primo" capacity how is it that the battery is going dead while you ride the bike?

Bad ground? The charging system may be putting out plenty of voltage, but if there's an intermittent bad ground there may not be a complete charge taking place.

Again, this is a bit of speculation on my part, but I work with a couple of electrical engineers who think it's a grounding problem.

You should ask the dealer how they tested the charging system and get numbers from them, ie, charging voltage and apmerage output at 4000 rpm etc... They should also preform voltage drop tests between the battery and the charging system output to rule out a bad connection/wire.

The Yamaha shop did a test in the shop, but was unable to ride the bike today (snow) to put miles on it then check how much the battery is going down over time.

They were able to check everything as it sits, with a recently fully charged (Tender) battery before I rode the bike from the first shop, to the Yamaha dealer. They know that the battery is going down after 100 miles or so accumulate, so they want to replicate that situation.

I think that their plan is to do just what you say as they rule things out one by one.

Based on what you have told us so far my prediction is that the dealer will not perform any further testing but instead start replacing parts (at your expense) and see what fixes the problem. Afterall they have a parts department and they don't have to know how to read a volt/amp meter to find the correct part numbers and swapp them out.

They won't replace anything at my expense. There is a $95 diagnostic fee to pay if it turns out a battery did fail and a faulty one replaced it (ie, non-Yamaha parts failed).

I'm not sure why you'd think they would replace parts at my expense until they come across one that fixes the problem....it's in for a warranty repair, and they've been very good at communicating with me about their findings. Any Yamaha part that may have failed will be replaced under warranty.

There's not much more use in continuing this discussion until I find out what the problem is... it's in their hands now.

 

[madmike2]

Many of us are curious to see what they determine is the cause.

We may not have a dog in this fight but it will add to the collective lore of the forum as there are a few Gen 2's suffering electrical gremlins of one sort or another.

 

[blakebird]

Many of us are curious to see what they determine is the cause.We may not have a dog in this fight but it will add to the collective lore of the forum as there are a few Gen 2's suffering electrical gremlins of one sort or another.

It turned out to be the weirdest set of coincidences I could have run into.

The Yamaha shop just called and gave me the skinny. They checked every connector, every wire, grounding junction / block / connection on the bike.

Checked the electrical system stem to stern. Today, they load tested the battery. Bad unit. The brand new Chinese "Yacht" brand I bought the day the oem battery died.... was bad from the factory, and started draining slowly from the second I installed it.

They're putting a decent new battery on the charger tonight, and will do some more tests with the new battery installed in the morning to make doubly sure all is well. I'll pick up the bike tomorrow, and return the bad battery.

I probably won't rest easy until I ride across a few states and back with the heated gear and PIAA's blazing and see nothing but a green light on the monitor :dribble:

----

The bike is a 2007 that was originally purchased in Sept 2007 (build date 3/2007). It was sold back to the shop some time before July 2008 (when I bought it), with 1,107 miles on it. Story is that the owner saw a riding buddy get killed in an accident, and he sold it back to the shop and stopped riding. It looked showroom new, completely stock.

I have no idea when he sold it back, but it sat in the shop's used bike 'warehouse' for a while.

I put 27,400 miles on it in the ensuing 13 months, capped off by a 4,000 mile trip to the Canadian Rockies via Chief Joseph/Beartooth/Glacier/Waterton Lakes/Icefields Parkway/Tetons/Y'stone - then it sat for six weeks in the shop having suspension work and a valve / TB synch service done.

The day I picked it up from having that work done, the oem battery is charging less than 10v....and dies on the way home.

I replace that battery with a new one, and it turns out to be bad.

I think most reasonable people would think that the first shop had done something to cause an electrical problem...

They double checked their work, could find no issues.

I took it to a good Yamaha shop I trust, they found no fault with the bike either, but the new battery was bad out of the box.

So no issues with the electrical system at all - just a weird set of coincidences...

Rest easy, fellow 2007 owners!

 

[FJRGuy]

...So no issues with the electrical system at all - just a weird set of coincidences...

Rest easy, fellow 2007 owners!

Don't know that I totaly buy that! Initially I thought you had a different issue than I but after further updates, I think it may be similar but showing up slightly differently...

I replaced my OEM battery less than a year into the bike's service life (I can't comment on where the battery sat in the shop pre-sale.)) It often would not have enough juice to start the bike after sitting for some period of time. That period of time varied from 1 day to a couple of weeks and has not been consistent. New battery does the same thing but 'tests' out ok. I'm suspecting a ground leak somewhere but have no idea where. It may take a while to pin it down if that's the case. In the meantime, I disconnect the battery for long periods of not being used and use a tender for short periods. Never gave me a problem when touring though.

I won't be terribly surprised if you cone back with another 'dead battery'. Please let us know either way!

Thanks again for sharing your experience!

 

[Zorlac]

Did the shop put in an OE Yuasa or something else?

 

[blakebird]

Did the shop put in an OE Yuasa or something else?

That was up to me, and we'll see if I made a good decision.

It would be a bit awkward to go find a deal on one at a discount battery place, and bring it down for them to install....but I don't think the shop would have had a huge problem with it. I was talking with the service guy about the ones they had to choose from and the stout prices dealers charge for oem...

I said I should probably check Batteries Plus' price on the oem fitment and compare it to his. I half-jokingly said "I'll bet your oem price is $160".

He went off to check prices and called me back. The oem battery was $165, their price.

The other choice in stock - they had Western Powersports for $112, and $20 more to get a lifetime warranty. He agreed the oem battery is probably a better battery, but if this one lasts a couple of years, then I get a free one - I'm at $65 per battery. I went with that choice, and don't mind supporting the dealer even if I do pay a bit more for the battery. Their diagnostic fee was $95, and I know they put way more time into the bike than that fee would cover at $85/hr shop rate. They communicated great, and it was a great dealer experience - something you don't hear many people bragging about these days. The warm fuzzy will be complete when I come back from that multi-state ride with a healthy battery.

The oem battery lasted about two years if a new one was installed Sept 2008 (first purchase date).

While the plan is to keep the FJR for a while, I sort of have a tendency to put 25,000-30,000 miles on a bike in 12-15 months and move on to something different. So far the FJR has been so good at everything I want a bike to do... I haven't been looking at all.

 

[Bionic Pelvis]

This might be helpful info:

Parts Unlimited now makes an YT14B-BS ACM maintenance free battery for the FJR, part number 2113-0092. It is manufactured for Parts Unlimited by Yuasa. (Many PU branded batteries even include paperwork that has the Yuasa name and logo on it.) The best part is, they retail for $74.95.

No need to resort to cheap Chinese batteries anymore...

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

This might be helpful infoarts Unlimited now makes an YT14B-BS ACM maintenance free battery for the FJR, part number 2113-0092. It is manufactured for Parts Unlimited by Yuasa. (Many PU branded batteries even include paperwork that has the Yuasa name and logo on it.) The best part is, they retail for $74.95.

Not everyone can buy from PARTS -- wholesale only.

Their retail arm has this: Dennis Kirk Part #: 201548 -- $113.99.

Is this the battery you're describing?

No need to resort to cheap Chinese batteries anymore...

I'm not so sure of that assessment -- neither country of origin nor quaility comment...?

 

[blakebird]

No need to resort to cheap Chinese batteries anymore...

The 'Yacht' battery was my only option at the side of the road that day.

Even then, I'm sure it was a bit of a fluke to have one fail - regardless of the place of mfr'r.

 

[Zorlac]

I dunno, if it was big enough to start a Yacht, the FJR shoulda been cake.

 

[Bionic Pelvis]

Not everyone can buy from PARTS -- wholesale only.Their retail arm has this: Dennis Kirk Part #: 201548 -- $113.99.

Well, yes, you are correct that nobody can buy direct from PU unless you are a dealer. But that $74.95 price is full retail, and virtually every motorcycle shop in the country carries Parts Unlimited. You've gotta do what you've gotta do in a pinch, for sure, but if you're not stuck on the side of the road any PU dealer could have this for you within a day or two for half the price of OEM. (It's not the same thing as the Power Max @ Dennis Kirk.)

No judgment, just figured I'd share because PU didn't have an OEM equivalent battery for the FJR until this year. I've got one in mine, the hubby has one in his, they've both been great.

 

[Zorlac]

Batteries aren't great till they pass the 5yr mark & still work.

 

[Bionic Pelvis]

Batteries aren't great till they pass the 5yr mark & still work.

Depends on the climate you live in & how it's maintained. If you are in Phoenix, a battery that lasts two years has hero status. Even a maintenance-free battery will go dead in a perfect climate if the bike is rarely ridden and the battery isn't kept charged.

But since the PU battery IS a Yuasa battery, and I already know the Yuasa battery to be dependable, I'm not concerned about whether it'll perform up to my expectation. I've been using and recommending PU batteries for more than ten years w/o issue. But if seeing Yuasa printed on your battery gives you warm fuzzies, knock yourself out. That printing brings the retail up to $156.95.

Just tryin' ta help. Yeesh.

 

[FJRGuy]

Batteries aren't great till they pass the 5yr mark & still work.

Well I guess that rules out the OEM YUASA battery that was in my bike! It lasted less than a year!!!

Thanks BP, I'll be checking out the PU battery when I need another. Let's hope Mama Yama keeps pumping out the FJR so PU keeps carrying that battery!

 

[Zorlac]

Wendy,

I wasn't arguing the price or quality of the battery you mentioned, just the fact that motorcyclists in general seem to have more battery failures than I'm accustomed to with batteries that I've used for other purposes over the years.

I have a peeve that the FJR battery is only a 12AH battery in an unheard of 2.75" width that prevents crossing it to a general purpose AGM battery that would probably cost 40% less and be widely available.

I had a Panasonic 18AH AGM battery that I bought in 2001, used it for other things, dropped it in my Concours in 2005 and ran it 55K miles till it started to get weak last Dec, I'd call that hero status.

But you are right, heat kills batteries and not keeping a battery fully charged either through not riding the bike, or no external charging, is abuse and you can't expect its full design life in that event.

 

[blakebird]

Depends on the climate you live in & how it's maintained. If you are in Phoenix, a battery that lasts two years has hero status.

The heat's tough on 'em, no doubt.

I lived in Las Vegas for 8 yrs.... bike batteries lasted a little more than a year, sometimes two.

 

[Bionic Pelvis]

I have a peeve that the FJR battery is only a 12AH battery in an unheard of 2.75" width that prevents crossing it to a general purpose AGM battery that would probably cost 40% less and be widely available. I had a Panasonic 18AH AGM battery that I bought in 2001, used it for other things, dropped it in my Concours in 2005 and ran it 55K miles till it started to get weak last Dec, I'd call that hero status.

That's been my big complaint, too. It seems to me that, in the last few years especially, manufacturers have been specing these weird, unique batteries with wicked high price tags. That's why I was so happy to see that PU finally came out with a direct cross at a reasonable price. I remember paying close to $200 for my first couple FZ1 batteries, then PU came out with a cross for half that and it's been running like a champ ever since.

I guess when I start manufacturing my own bikes, I can spec a reasonable battery and an oil with a viscosity rating that is available in the real world. :yes:

 

[SkooterG]

Depends on the climate you live in & how it's maintained. If you are in Phoenix, a battery that lasts two years has hero status.

The heat's tough on 'em, no doubt.

I lived in Las Vegas for 8 yrs.... bike batteries lasted a little more than a year, sometimes two.

Heat is most definitely tough on batteries, but that doesn't mean they can't last a while.

My OEM FJR battery lasted 4 years 11 months here in Phoenix.

 

[Zorlac]

Depends on the climate you live in & how it's maintained. If you are in Phoenix, a battery that lasts two years has hero status.

The heat's tough on 'em, no doubt.

I lived in Las Vegas for 8 yrs.... bike batteries lasted a little more than a year, sometimes two.

Heat is most definitely tough on batteries, but that doesn't mean they can't last a while.

My OEM FJR battery lasted 4 years 11 months here in Phoenix.

How long do your car batteries last out there?