2005 First gear question / no starter engagement fix

[D.Wolf]

Hi,

Not sure how to explain this concern, but here goes.
First I will say that my engine works great, gear shift is good, fluids are good. Just don't have the know how (yet) on how to check if clutch has issues

When I put the bike in first gear and slowly let the clutch out it works fine. However when in first with clutch fully released and doing slow riding or slow maneuvers the bike feels like it is choppy even with smooth throttle control! It's like if i would pull the clutch in then out constantly. Makes slow maneuvers very tricky and almost caused me to drop the bike. If I go a little faster, no issues, but too fast for parking lots. I really don't feel that I'm going so slow to cause the bike to go in a stall/bucking situation. I feel like I need to really ride the clutch a lot.
It's been more pronounced to me since I've been practicing my u-turns, and slow maneuvers lately to hone my skills after watching a few training videos to feel more confident in certain situations, even though I've been riding for over 20 years!
In addition, when doing engine braking which I've been used to doing with my previous bike (1985 Yamaha maxim x), and end up in first gear there is a kind of whine as though someone turning a switch on and off for the sound which diminishes as the bike slows to a stop. Kind of a whirrrrrrrrrrr...........whirrrrr.......whirrr...whir effect. (I admit my description is funny)

As a side note if anyone is having starter issues when trying to start the bike when hot (which also causes dash to blank out and reset the time when pressing the starter switch). I've discovered that it is not a grounding issues or electrical problem. It is most likely a dirty starter inside. I had to take the starter out, take it apart, clean the brushes and armature (clean out all groves) put it back together and works like a charm now! I believe a couple members have put the procedure to access the starter in this forum.

 

[RossKean]

Yep. Slow starter and blanked gauges is either a bad starter or bad battery (or loose connection). Clue is to use a clamp-on DC ammeter to check starting current. Crapped up starter will show 80+ amps... Good that you were able to fix it yourself!

I am wondering if your clutch discs need a clean and oil soak. Might not hurt to open it up and have a look to see if the fibre disks and steels look dry or contaminated. Procedures for clutch clean and soak here on the forum.

Your whirrr noise. Just with engine braking or front brake applied as well? I think we all get some of that with front brake. Not sure what it is but I speculate that it is the pads sliding over the perforations in the rotor. Try cleaning the rotor. Might try chamfering the leading edge of the pad if it bothers you. Doesn't hurt anything so I wouldn't bother. If the sound is more internal then my earlier comments on having a look at the clutch innards still applies.

Good luck.

Another thought on the noise...
I wonder if there is any possibility that the starter is turning. I never heard of it happening but possible if there is an issue with the switch or solenoid or not disengaging...
Really hard to say without actually hearing what you are describing...

 

[D.Wolf]

Yep. Slow starter and blanked gauges is either a bad starter or bad battery (or loose connection). Clue is to use a clamp-on DC ammeter to check starting current. Crapped up starter will show 80+ amps... Good that you were able to fix it yourself!

I am wondering if your clutch discs need a clean and oil soak. Might not hurt to open it up and have a look to see if the fibre disks and steels look dry or contaminated. Procedures for clutch clean and soak here on the forum.

Your whirrr noise. Just with engine braking or front brake applied as well? I think we all get some of that with front brake. Not sure what it is but I speculate that it is the pads sliding over the perforations in the rotor. Try cleaning the rotor. Might try chamfering the leading edge of the pad if it bothers you. Doesn't hurt anything so I wouldn't bother. If the sound is more internal then my earlier comments on having a look at the clutch innards still applies.

Good luck.

Another thought on the noise...
I wonder if there is any possibility that the starter is turning. I never heard of it happening but possible if there is an issue with the switch or solenoid or not disengaging...
Really hard to say without actually hearing what you are describing...

Thanks for the info, I will look up the info for the plates.

The sound is definitely coming from the lower part of the bike. If I had to guess, from the clutch.
It would not be the starter as I know what a stuck starter sounds like.
I also know what you mean about the front brake, the pads are slightly rubbing on the rotors which makes a different sound then what I'm getting.
It only happens in first gear when engine braking or when doing slow maneuvers requiring little throttle play. If I don't turn the throttle ever so smoothly it tends to grab and kind of jerk the bike as though I gave a bit too much throttle then released, then too much then released...
I know it may be hard to understand cause I'm having a hard time explaining it, just hoping someone on here has had some similar experiences or can tell me if it's normal.

 

[torch]

I have a MaximX (Canadian 750cc version) as well. Great bike. Carburetted. Much different animal.

The FJR is fuel injected, twice the horsepower, only 115 lbs heavier but taller, wider and higher centre of gravity and yes, the throttle tends to be sensitive, more of an off-on switch than a volume control by comparison*. Lightly ride the rear brake and slip the clutch so you can keep just a touch of throttle on for low-speed manouvers. With a bit of practice you can do full steering lock turns with both feet on the pegs and a passenger on the back.

When engine braking, the ECU actually turns the injectors off. So the effect can be rather pronounced compared to a carburetted bike. Maybe you are picking up on the change in engine note between firing on all 4 and maximum decel?

*some low-hanging fruit that can ease the throttle transition somewhat:

1. check to see if the Barbarian Jumper mod has been done by following the procedure to reach the Diag screen, then press Select again and see if you can access the Co screen. If you can, then the mix has probably already been bumped up by a previous owner. If not, then that mod may help a bit.

2. Some have unhooked or unwound the throttle return spring to aid in throttle control at low speed and wrist fatigue when cruising.

3. Adjust the throttle cable pair for minimum slack in the cables.

After that, there's a few things you can spend lots of money on, like Power Commander or Ivan's ECU reflash.

 

[RossKean]

After that, there's a few things you can spend lots of money on, like Power Commander or Ivan's ECU reflash.

No Ivan flash for Gen I, as far as I know...

Edit: I see from your previous posts that you got this bike two years ago. Are these observations new or something you have been dealing with since you got it?

 

[BigOgre]

I have a MaximX (Canadian 750cc version) as well. Great bike. Carburetted. Much different animal.

The FJR is fuel injected, twice the horsepower, only 115 lbs heavier but taller, wider and higher centre of gravity and yes, the throttle tends to be sensitive, more of an off-on switch than a volume control by comparison*. Lightly ride the rear brake and slip the clutch so you can keep just a touch of throttle on for low-speed manouvers. With a bit of practice you can do full steering lock turns with both feet on the pegs and a passenger on the back.

When engine braking, the ECU actually turns the injectors off. So the effect can be rather pronounced compared to a carburetted bike. Maybe you are picking up on the change in engine note between firing on all 4 and maximum decel?

*some low-hanging fruit that can ease the throttle transition somewhat:

1. check to see if the Barbarian Jumper mod has been done by following the procedure to reach the Diag screen, then press Select again and see if you can access the Co screen. If you can, then the mix has probably already been bumped up by a previous owner. If not, then that mod may help a bit.

2. Some have unhooked or unwound the throttle return spring to aid in throttle control at low speed and wrist fatigue when cruising.

3. Adjust the throttle cable pair for minimum slack in the cables.

After that, there's a few things you can spend lots of money on, like Power Commander or Ivan's ECU reflash.

I'll add to the above the possibility of the TPS worn right around the low RPM range although I have a suspicion what you're describing is normal. I've had mine acting like that at times and that's with a replaced TPS (for another reason.) I've always chalked it up to operator error and adjust my inputs to smooth it out.

 

[mcatrophy]

What is the rpm when you get the "choppy" effect? Anything below perhaps 1200, it won't pull cleanly.

 

[D.Wolf]

No Ivan flash for Gen I, as far as I know...

Edit: I see from your previous posts that you got this bike two years ago. Are these observations new or something you have been dealing with since you got it?

These observations are more pronounced, probably because I've been practicing slow maneuvers and never noticed before.
I also feel it more with my wife with me (more weight)

 

[RossKean]

There were two separate recalls associated with the Throttle Position Sensor for the 2005.
Might want to look into that...

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2005/YAMAHA/FJR1300#recalls

2 Recalls for 2005 YAMAHA FJR1300​

---

FILTER RECALLS BY AFFECTED COMPONENTS
All (2)VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL (2)

---

September 17, 2009 NHTSA CAMPAIGN NUMBER: 09V360000
THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR
FAILURE OF THE THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR COULD CAUSE THE ENGINE TO STALL WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.

September 28, 2006 NHTSA CAMPAIGN NUMBER: 06V371000
THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR FACTORY MODIFICATION
IF THE ENGINE STALLS AFTER THE OPERATOR DISENGAGES THE CLUTCH IN A LOW GEAR WHILE RIDING, THE REAR TIRE MIGHT SLIP MOMENTARILY IF THE OPERATOR ABRUPTLY RE-ENGAGES THE CLUTCH. THIS COULD RESULT IN A CRASH WITH INJURY OR DEATH.

 

[D.Wolf]

What is the rpm when you get the "choppy" effect? Anything below perhaps 1200, it won't pull cleanly.

Never really looked, I go by feel and sound of the motor, I will make a point of looking