2007 Altitude Surging Problem - Members Wanted

[user 3870]

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007A with 6800 miles. I live in Fullerton California. Have done the B-Mod +7.

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

I have noticed a surge starting at approximately 3500 feet.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?



Yes. From sea level to 5000 feet or so. The surging seemed to start around 3500 feet but seemed to go away after turning the bike off.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

No. Usually ride up then down.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

I guess I have turned the bike off during periods of surging but it was not due to the surging, only because I had stopped.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

I have not contacted the dealer.

 

[fjr07]

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

yes

no

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

yes

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

no

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

no

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

no

 

[Farkles]

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007 Central Point Oregon

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

yes kinda weird after sitting for a bit it stalled getting into traffice then took off like a rocket, Hurt neck with back lash

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

yes it gets sluggesh and doesn't resond as well.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

no

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

no

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

no because by the time I get to dealer it runs fine.

 

[Gary D]

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

2007, 3900 miles, Escondido, CA

YES, between 2500 and 3000 ft.

YES the bike stumbles badly at lower rpm's, and is difficult to hold at a steady speed.

Can't say that I have ridden at a steady elevation long enough to notice.

NO, n/a

YES, mentioned it to the service department at my 600 mile service. Dealer has done nothing at this point but I have not been bugging them either.

Hope this helps

Gary

 

[Foxhuntr]

Questions:===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007, 1800 mi, paso robles, ca

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

yes, on the way up a 1400 foot hill on my commute home. It happens every evening.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

yes

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

no

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

no

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

yes, they are contacting Yamaha.

 

[azsporttour]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2006 10K, Arizona

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

yes. Seems to happen more on the freeway, than twisties.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

yes

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

Yes. 2K' - 8K'.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

no

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Yes. They know nothing about the issue, but are willing to look at it.

 

[FjrVfr]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2006A with 10K miles, PC-III (O2 disconnected) w/stock map, Salt Lake City, UT (4,300 ft)

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Oh yeah. Seems to happen on the way down from a climb. I first thought it was tank venting/gas starvation.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes. I think it's always happened during long rides (not just after a stop).

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

Not this kind of surging. I still have what I would describe as "hunting" on long, slow, steady downhills. Not like gas starvation but like a poor EFI map.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

I pulled over the first time and it was gone after that but it never seems to persist longer than several seconds anyway.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Take it to the dealer? Good one.

 

[co425]

2006 Surges at about 2500 ft up, brought it to dealers attention they have no way to altitude test it. I live at 50 feet elevation sac ca. Mine is real dangerous damn near dies when starting from a stop. No change after a shut down. I find that cranking the idle way up help with the start stop issue but does not cure it all the way. Hope this helps.

 

[Nightwind15]

[Yamaha has issued a Throttle Posistion Sensor Recall on some serial numbers. We will be glad to check by serial number for any that may need replacement. email me at [email protected] or call 256 355 9706 and ask for Ed the service manager. We will be glad to help with this problem. If that is not the issue we will contact Yamaha for assistance for you.

Thanks

Steve

 

[Wingman]

[Yamaha has issued a Throttle Posistion Sensor Recall on some serial numbers. We will be glad to check by serial number for any that may need replacement. email me at [email protected] or call 256 355 9706 and ask for Ed the service manager. We will be glad to help with this problem. If that is not the issue we will contact Yamaha for assistance for you. Thanks

Steve

Does this TPS recall affect 2006 and 2007 models, or are you refering to the recall on previous years? Just curious.

David

 

[GATOR1]

Well after a few weeks of seeing various posts related to altitude related surging problems I thought it would be best to post a single thread to collect information from anyone who has experienced surging related problems on a 2006 or 2007. While I think most of the reports are from 2007 owners I won't exclude 2006.
Please understand the surging issue is strictly related to altitude. The purpose of this thread is STRICTLY to track/report people who have altitude related surging issues and nothing to do with rough/abrust throttle, jerkiness, etc. It would be helpful if all 2007 owners posted regardless if you have experienced this problem.

PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: Many owners of 2007 FJR's have experienced mild to severe surging issues when riding their bikes thru altitude changes. The bike feels sluggish and acts as though it's running out of gas for anywhere from 1-4 seconds. Once the surging begins it usually continues until the bike is ridden to lower altitudes (approx. < 1000') or the bike is shut off/on. Some have reported that stopping and turning the bike off/on resets the ECM or at least appears to fix the problem. Some have claimed turning bike off/on only temporarily fixes the surging problem for a few minutes until bike see's sub-1000' altitudes.

Yet many 2007 owners have indicated they have not experienced the surging issue at all. Perhaps this is directly related to the problem only occurs when a bike is ridden thru and altitude change vice a person that lives @ 2500' that typically rides at/around 2500' without riding various altitudes.

On some bikes the surging is so bad it impacts safety as the bike will loose all power for 1-3 seconds at a time which has occurred in the middle of corners, etc. I have personally contacted Yamaha on this problem and yet they claim it's the first they have heard about it!? Yeah, right. My bike also surges ...badly and did on the very first trip I made with it with a whopping 300 miles on the bike. Over the course of a 4 day trip (1577 miles) I quit counting after 30+ times it acted up...to the point where it nearly spoiled the trip. TBS sync doesn't appear to have any impact on the problem.

Perhaps Yamaha or dealers will read this thread and realize the problem actually exists and it's time to fix it before someone gets killed.

Mods, can we make it a sticky?

EVERYONE needs to report this problem to their dealer and call Yamaha customer service (1.800.962.7926) and report it as a safety problem.

Questions:

===================================

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007/2500 miles/Woodland Park,CO

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Yes/runs fine driving to CO Springs/ elevation 6200ft/ riding back to W.P.,8500ft, throttle response deteriorates and by the time I am home it is surging. Starts with a very soft response off a trailing throttle, just gets worse until a full surge. Just like the post from AGIRL, stopping at an intersection is almost dangerous, bike seem to lose so much power I have to rev the engine hard and slip the clutch to start from a stop.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

No

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

No

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Yes, I work at the dealership. Yamaha has made several suggestions/ first was a CO adjustment. This works for about a week, then symptons return. TPS checked,synced throttle bodies,cable slack adjusted,no codes, tank vent ok,ECM next.

 

[Farkles]

Just took a trip from 1300 feet to 5000 and it did and does stumble almost got me killed and when it responds it snaps your neck so hard I see stars.

Shut off and back on seems to work. I notice it does it on mine if I park it on the side stand for a bit then start it up and go.

While riding in the area it has slower responce then back at home if this helps

 

[TNT]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?2007, 3850 miles, Benton, TN

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Yes, no pattern noticed.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

No

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

No

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Haven't contacted the dealer yet.

 

[Whichsideup]

It appears the dealers that have had this problem reported are uping the CO settings, probably at the advice of Yamaha. However in my case this did not make any difference what so ever. Tried +4 to +7 and still surged badly. Just food for thought.

Along a similar "food for thought" scenario , I "may" have stumbled onto (or at least close to) a fix. I recently installed a PowerCommander with its own "stock" fuel mapping. It helped some, but not quite all. I then further enrichened the map "area" in which the problem seemed most severe to me (barely opened throttle, and fairly low rpm). In the 2% throttle opening column of the map, I increased the map grid numbers by 3 points, in the range of 1250 - 3250 rpm. This by coincidence, is the range in which emission testing is done, and is perhaps therefore set especially lean on fuel. It appears you DO have to disconnect the O2 sensor for this to be effective, otherwise the sensor will "over-ride" the PowerCommander instructions. The problem with the "Yamaha" method of enrichment is that it will run you richer everywhere, which is NOT needed. Hopefully I'm on the right track here (crossing fingers) !

 

[superbee]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007, 3000, Yucaipa, CA

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

It chokes and surges everytime I go up to the mountains, it usually starts to fail about half way up, probably around 3000'. Doesn't occur while coming down though.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

all the time. The only way to stop the failure is to shut ignition off and restart. That usually clears it up, but comes back if still climbing.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

yes, while commuting to and from work on the freeway. I ride for about 30 min at rpms between 4K and 5K, once I get off the freeway after the first stop the surging starts. Not as strong as when climbing but is noticable. Again shuting down and restarting clears the problem.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

yes, see above.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

yes, its in now for maintenance and for them to diagnose the problem. So far based on my description they think it might be the CO2 sensor or perhaps the ECU. They said they will keep checking.

 

[TruWrecks]

What is the year of your bike, current mileage and city/state in which you live?

2007 FJR1300A with less then 6,950 miles on the ODO. Seattle, WA.

Has your bike surged at altitude? If so, have you noticed any pattern as to a particular altitude the surging occurs?

Yes. Any time I tried to add more throttle to maintain speed so I don't get run over by cars following me. Everything greater than 3,000' above sea level.

Have you experienced surging while changing altitude of 1000' or more without shutting motorcycle off?

Yes. Shutting the bike off does not fix the problem.

Have you experienced surging riding at a steady elevation? If so, what elevation?

Yes. Everything greater than 3,000' above sea level.

When you experienced surging did you try turning bike off/on? If so, did it correct the problem?

Yes. I did NOT fix the problem.

Have you contacted the dealer regarding the problem? If so, what has the dealer done to help resolve the problem?

Yes. They said they couldn't really do anything to fix the issue above 2,000 RPMs. They said they could only adjust the fuel just above idle. I've had surging from 2,500 to 5,000 RPMs.

Let's start a class action suit against Yamaha Motor Company. That should help get things improved!

I've almost run head on into an on-coming car when the bike lunged forward and pushed wide while I was riding on the right inside lane of an uphill road. The car was slightly over the line. I was within a few inches of clipping to driver's side rear of the car.

 

[Ed Sorbo]

FJR1300

My name is Ed Sorbo. I’m the service manager at Honda Yamaha of Redlands. We are located near San Bernardino CA. at about 1500 ft elevation. One of my customers has an ’07 FJR1300 that has already had its TPS replaced. He brought his bike in for it’s 4000 mile service and told me he was having a lean surge problem. I called Yamaha Tech for advice and learned about this site. I read the posts about the altitude surging problem. Today at 11:30 am I left the shop with a half tank of gas and took I-10 to the 30, the bike was warm by the time I reached the 30, I cruised between 80 mph and 100 mph on the 30 for about 10 miles and took the 330 up to Running Springs and about 7000 ft. I rode most of the way on the 330 in 4th gear reaching 80mph on a few short straights, I spent only a little time behind cars, my lowest speed was about 15mph behind a truck for less then one mile. The bike ran great until I got to the Running Springs exit, I was not sure where to go, I braked late and did not bother downshifting. When I rolled back on the throttle in the exit lane the bike surged badly and nearly stalled, I was still in 4th gear. After coming to a stop and going again in 1st gear the bike ran fine in town. Outside of town and back up to speed the bike started surging when I slowed down behind cars, I was again in 4th gear and under 3000 rpm, as soon as I downshifted to 3rd the rpm came up and the problem went away. From Running Springs I rode to Big Bear Lake and took Hwy 38 around the lake and back down to Redlands. Going around the lake I got stuck behind a school bus, the driver knew the road and the bus was empty but we still got as slow as 10 mph, I kept the rpm above 3000 and had no problems. On the way down the mountain the throttle response was a little abrupt in the just off idle range which requires a smooth hand when opening it after braking, but it was no worse than other stock bikes. I got back to the shop at 12:20 pm, the ride was 100 miles long. Max elevation was 8200 ft, max speed was 120 mph, min. speed was zero, average speed was 55.55.

This is what I think is happening: The bike has an amazing torque curve that lets you leave it in high gears, this leads to lugging and less than perfect throttle response at low rpm. All bikes are lean on the bottom so they can pass emission standards, I think this common slight leanness combined with lugging the engine causes this problem. I can make the problem continue by leaving the bike in a high gear and messing with the throttle or I can solve the problem by down shifting and bring the rpm above 3000. Pulling away from stop signs I noticed how smooth the power is on the bottom and found myself shifting early every time. I found that the surging is more likely to occur after high speed riding. I’m not sure that altitude really is part of the problem, it may be the type of riding we do up in the hills.

Overview: The bike is so smooth and torquey that it can be ridden in to low a rpm range. At low rpm all engines carburate at their worst, when the high load of chugging along in a high gear is added problems will occur. This problem can be exacerbated by prolonged high speed running just prior to the low rpm running. This exacerbation may be caused by unburned fuel in the intake track left there when the speed dropped quickly. Many bikes run way worse on the bottom than the FJR does, they just do it all the time so people know to keep the rpm up.

Solution: Don’t slow down, wait for the last braking marker for the gas station, nail the brakes, use big throttle blips on each down shift, ease off on the brake lever just before you flick it into the drive way, kick the side stand down before you even stop. After filling up pin it and tuck in! If you can’t ride like that all the time, down shift as you slow and keep your rpm above 3000 in 3rd gear and higher.

Follow up: My customer will pick his bike up tomorrow and he will make it surge then see if getting above 3000 fixes it for him. I will report his findings. You can try the same.

My qualifications: In order to judge my recommendations I feel that you need to know something about my experience. You can Goggle me to see my racing results. I was half owner of Sportbike Hawaii for 10 years, I started racing in ’84, I have won many races, club and national. I owned the race club in Hawaii and a Go Kart track. I made my living as a full time AMA 250 GP racer from ’98 till ’03 with a best race finish of 3rd. I was Chris Ulrich’s crew chief from ’04 till ’06. I work for "Roadracing World" as a rider and writer, I have two by lines "Ed Tech" and "Ask Ed." I’ve been the service manager at HYR since December of ’06. I work for HYR and get paid because people like this FJR customer pay us for our services. My job is to solve his problem and to keep him happy not to defend Yamaha or anyone else if they have a poor product. I will check this board a few times and try to answer any questions you may have. I’m troubled by the number of people who expect so little from there dealer and Yamaha and are so quick to criticize. I have found Yamaha to be honest and helpful, I hope my shop is viewed the same. Please include your full real name if you have any questions or comments for me.

Sincerely,

Ed Sorbo

Service manager

HYR

909 793-2833

 

[Ignacio]

Solution: Don't slow down, wait for the last braking marker for the gas station, nail the brakes, use big throttle blips on each down shift, ease off on the brake lever just before you flick it into the drive way, kick the side stand down before you even stop......keep your rpm above 3000 in 3rd gear and higher.

So much for luxuries like...ummm....riding in parking lots......ummm....turning around in less than a 100' circle......passing an MSF course......cruising like other motorcycles.

I don't have a Gen II bike, but I sure do like being able to cruise on my stock '05 at like 1200 to 1500 rpm without being a bucking bronco, but maybe I'm just spoiled.

WTF? :blink:

 

[tophog]

.

 

[TruWrecks]

Interesting outlook Mr. Sorbo. So why did my bike NOT accelerate up a hill in 3rd gear @ about 5,000 RPMs going over Mt. Hood, OR? I was a little over 7,000 ft elevation, and I could turn the throttle almost 1/4 turn, then the bike would lunge forward like something really big just kicked it in the ***! It's not very likely I was bogging down the engine at 5,000. The surging is less noticeable, most of the time, above 3,000. Should I really believe that Yamaha didn't intend us to use 4th or 5th gear on the freeway? If it was just for emissions, why didn't Yamaha run the bike a bit less lean about 2,000 RPMs and up?

I guess Yamaha should supply all Gen II owners with a free Power Commander. Or, they could do a recall and fix the problem the right way. I was running the engine over 3,000 when the damn thing almost caused me to go head-on into a car! I call a PROBLEM.