2007 Problem Upshifting

[FJR-Pilot]

I just wanted to throw out some information regarding a problem with upshifting I had last weekend. I have been unable to find any information here or on the Internet with this issue but I was able to resolve the problem.

2007 FJR1300 (manual transmission) with 60,000 "spirited miles." Have run Amsoil Synthetic 10W-40 Motorcycle blend since the bike reached 1,500 miles and I changed the oil and filter every 6,000 to 8,000 miles since that time. There is no detectible clutch slippage even under full load gear shifting in any gear and the transmission makes no unusual noises. In fact, the bike has never run better.

Have not ridden the bike since last month (too much rain) and got it out Sunday for a day long ride with friends. I checked engine oil level before departing and it was very near the top of the sight glass. Upon departure I immediately noticed the bike would not upshift for about 4 or 5 seconds in each gear when going up from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, etc. Downshifts were flawless. The gear lever would move easily and freely up and down but the next damn gear was just not there for those few moments (but I was still in the prior gear). Very quickly I realized if I moved my foot over the gear lever and gently pushed down on it a fraction then the next higher gear immediately became available and I could then quickly move my foot back under the lever and move up to the next higher gear. I rode it for an hour total like this (30 minutes out and 30 minutes home).

The only thing I knew to do at this point was to change the oil & filter of 6,500 miles which I did. Right after that I took it out for a test spin around the block and within two shifts it was back to normal. I then donned ATGATT and took off for about 5 hours of riding and it never missed a single upshift.

I would love any insight or thoughts into this issue. Esp if you think the transmission is about to go.

I thought Amsoil was the king of oils? Or at least very good? Is it letting me down? Or is 6,000 miles too far on an oil change? Really? Not based on the studies I have read anyway. Should I switch back to YamaLube?

 

[escapefjrtist]

Sounds like the shifter isn't returning to the neutral (mid) position after each upshift. Is the shifter moving freely?

Check the shifter pivot and see if it's gunked up. Might need a cleaning and lube job.

--G

 

[VanHarlan]

Have you changed your clutch fluid lately?

 

[road runner]

Could be sticky shifter linkage, also I think going 6000-8000 miles on any oil is too long. It's not that the oil is braking down, but there is a lot of crap in it that you need to get out. Next oil change use a clean container, and when you dump the oil out, look at all the **** in the bottom of the pan. I use synthetic oil, but change it with every tire change which for me is about every 4000 miles. my .02 cents

 

[ionbeam]

...The gear lever would move easily and freely up and down but the next damn gear was just not there for those few moments (but I was still in the prior gear). Very quickly I realized if I moved my foot over the gear lever and gently pushed down on it a fraction then the next higher gear immediately became available and I could then quickly move my foot back under the lever and move up to the next higher gear...

Classic dirty shifter pivot symptom, the pivot needs a clean 'n lube. The shift drum is not returning to the 'neutral' centered position until you nudge it with your toe, once centered it can move to pick up the next gear. I just did this last weekend, for at least the fifth time in 95k miles. The shifter pivot and the brake lever pivot should be on everyone's priority list when doing maintenance.

You need to pull off the left foot peg assembly, then from the inside of the plate remove item 28 and clean 28, the hole it goes through and both sides of item 31, then grease it all. If you screw item 28 in too tight the pivot will still bind even though it is cleaned and lubed. Items 29 and 30 are a regular flat washer and a wave washer intended to limit side to side motion of the shift lever but the wave washer also makes it possible to over tighten, so be careful. While you are at it, the rod ends should be lubed too. Pay careful attention to the alignment of all the parts when you take the left side plate off because when putting it together again the shift linkage alignment isn't intuitive.

 

[FJR-Pilot]

Sounds like the shifter isn't returning to the neutral (mid) position after each upshift. Is the shifter moving freely?Check the shifter pivot and see if it's gunked up. Might need a cleaning and lube job.

--G

The shifter does move freely and it appears everything externally is fine.

Have you changed your clutch fluid lately?

All hydraulic fluids flushed and filled 12,000 miles ago.

Could be sticky shifter linkage, also I think going 6000-8000 miles on any oil is too long. It's not that the oil is braking down, but there is a lot of crap in it that you need to get out. Next oil change use a clean container, and when you dump the oil out, look at all the **** in the bottom of the pan. I use synthetic oil, but change it with every tire change which for me is about every 4000 miles. my .02 cents

My 2007 Yamaha owners manual says 8,000 mile change intervals on oil filters and 4,000 mile change intervals on the oil itself. So I thought 6k to 8k was fine when using a high performance synthetic oil like Amsoil .... at least until now. But holy crap! I just noticed the 2007 owners manual specifies 20W-40 oil (not 10W-40). I should probably switch to Amsoil 20W-40 next change.

...The gear lever would move easily and freely up and down but the next damn gear was just not there for those few moments (but I was still in the prior gear). Very quickly I realized if I moved my foot over the gear lever and gently pushed down on it a fraction then the next higher gear immediately became available and I could then quickly move my foot back under the lever and move up to the next higher gear...

Classic dirty shifter pivot symptom, the pivot needs a clean 'n lube. The shift drum is not returning to the 'neutral' centered position until you nudge it with your toe, once centered it can move to pick up the next gear. I just did this last weekend, for at least the fifth time in 95k miles. The shifter pivot and the brake lever pivot should be on everyone's priority list when doing maintenance.

Thanks for the detailed instructions on this maintenance! I do NOT know anything about how the gear shift linkage works and this helps. But when I looked down to examine the issue while it was happening everything looked to be functioning normally without any binding (the top shaft going into the engine was not sticking or hanging). But you sound confident this is the problem so I have to defer to you on this issue.

But I am curious as to why the problem went away immediately after the oil change and never missed a shift for 5 hours of riding afterwards. It seems to be fixed now? Or am I fooling myself?

 

[HelzBelz]

I now have 18k on my 09, and am thinking I have the "sticky clutch plate" issue, shifting to first and second is rough as hell 90% of the time, and shifting to first from neutral at a light is "grind your teeth cause you know its gonna be bad".

I just rode 1800 miles through BC and Washington and it was the most emotionally painful thing I've ever done, (next to putting my 2004 Red VW R32 with black leather interior down, only 750 made, down after an ***** hit me head on while running a red left turn signal.. but I digress) Every shift was truly nerve wracking.

I am going to start with the obvious things -

1. change oil, review what i find on my magnetic drain plug, and make sure when it is full the oil is nearer to the top of the sight glass then bottom. (our "wet" clutches are not really wet, because of poor design, so the more oil the merrier)

2. change the clutch fluid. It's about time anyway, and this will rule out a simple fix.

3. clean the shifter pivot system like above, that looks like fun.

4. THEN, soak the clutch plates.

5. I registered my issue at my local dealer while he gave me an appointment for next week. But those guys scare me. (new dealership, not sure about their mechanics yet.. But they are nice guys)

Somewhere in all of this I am going to speak with Yamaha, just to officially register my problem and hear their BS..I do have the YES warranty until 2014, but I can do all of the above myself.

 

[FJR-Pilot]

I now have 18k on my 09, and am thinking I have the "sticky clutch plate" issue, shifting to first and second is rough as hell 90% of the time, and shifting to first from neutral at a light is "grind your teeth cause you know its gonna be bad".I just rode 1800 miles through BC and Washington and it was the most emotionally painful thing I've ever done, (next to putting my 2004 Red VW R32 with black leather interior down, only 750 made, down after an ***** hit me head on while running a red left turn signal.. but I digress) Every shift was truly nerve wracking.

I am going to start with the obvious things -

1. change oil, review what i find on my magnetic drain plug, and make sure when it is full the oil is nearer to the top of the sight glass then bottom. (our "wet" clutches are not really wet, because of poor design, so the more oil the merrier)

2. change the clutch fluid. It's about time anyway, and this will rule out a simple fix.

3. clean the shifter pivot system like above, that looks like fun.

4. THEN, soak the clutch plates.

5. I registered my issue at my local dealer while he gave me an appointment for next week. But those guys scare me. (new dealership, not sure about their mechanics yet.. But they are nice guys)

Somewhere in all of this I am going to speak with Yamaha, just to officially register my problem and hear their BS..I do have the YES warranty until 2014, but I can do all of the above myself.

Sorry to hear about your R32 loss. What a ride that must've been

• Curious about what you see on the magnetic plug at oil change time.
• All hydraulic fluids changed 12k miles ago.
• I am thinking about the shifter lube procedure but I am wondering why the oil change fixed the problem without lubing it.
• Soak the clutch plates? How? (other than an oil change)
• edit - what type & weight of engine oil are you using?

Make sure you document all service you perform so you have no hassle if you have to make a warranty claim.

 

[kamal]

@ HelzBelz

IMHO. In your case, I'd bet just doing #2 & #3 will fix your problem.

Lots of info on this site on clutch fluid flush and bleed.

Servicing the shifter pivots is not hard and should make a big difference.

@ FJR-Pilot

No explanation for 'miracle cure'. Maybe there was something binding a bit, and fresh oil fixed it?

Last year I was having minor shifting problems that went away when it rained hard. On inspection, I found my shifter pivots were 'dry as a popcorn fart', I'm guessing moisture from the road 'lubed' them for a while?

Good luck to both of you. Keep us posted.

Al.

 

[ionbeam]

The shifter does move freely and it appears everything externally is fine.

...The gear lever would move easily and freely up and down but the next damn gear was just not there for those few moments (but I was still in the prior gear). Very quickly I realized if I moved my foot over the gear lever and gently pushed down on it a fraction then the next higher gear immediately became available

But I am curious as to why the problem went away immediately after the oil change and never missed a shift for 5 hours of riding afterwards. It seems to be fixed now? Or am I fooling myself?

Lubing the shift shaft should be done as a maintenance item. If you can do the job yourself (requires a large torx bit) it is essentially free and not difficult to do, and will remove this as a possible cause in the unlikely event it happens again. The part where you say you gently pushed down on the shifter and then it shifted gears is exactly how the shift drum acts when it needs to be nudged into the center position. This is a real mechanical action that exactly matches the symptoms. For the $$$ and the effort, just lube it.

There is no reason that engine oil could have/should have caused this set of symptoms that does match the shift drum. IMO, changing the oil and the problem going away were coincidence. There are some things that could have caused the shifter to drag a tiny amount and then 'heal' itself. There could have been some small amount of moisture or a tiny piece of grit that solved/caused the problem. Take this as an indicator that the sifter is on the cusp of needing (normal) service; even though it is currently working I wouldn't call it fixed.

Just out of curiosity, same footwear before and after? Did the bike get wet before/after or during? When you changed the oil you were messing around in the general vicinity of both the shift linkages and shift pedal, is there a chance that you might have done something to free up the lightly dragging shift system?

 

[HelzBelz]

(**sorry about the minor hijack of this thread, my problem is similar **)

Get this --

on my way to work this AM, I noticed that oil was near lower marker in glass (still within spec, but low) I topped it off to just above higher marker (less than a mm higher)

Bike shifted SMOOOOTH for the 10 minute ride to work. More scientific studies to be completed after work. (I'll take the long way home.)

I am astonished - All night I was dreaming of 2 ideas: First- drilling a hole in the top of the clutch housing and adding an injector to spray oil from above, like a shower.

or B - adding a filler cap to the clutch housing cover, then when filling the bike with oil do 4 quarts in the left (normal side) and final quart or so in the new right side..lol

 

[wfooshee]

Agree that this is a shifter issue. Your statement that the shifter moves freely is now, after it has started working correctly again.

I had the issue some months ago with downshifting, not upshifting, and recognized it immediately for what it was. Foot under the shifter to lift it after a downshift and the next downshift was available. Worked, but clumsy. Pulled into a service place and asked to borrow some spray lube, worked perfectly after being loosened up with lube, (there's a quote for you!) finished my weekend and took it apart for cleaning when I got home.

If the shifter can't return to center after the shift, then it doesn't grab the next ratchet on the shift drum, and can't turn it any more. That's all there is to it.

 

[mcatrophy]

...[*]Soak the clutch plates? How? (other than an oil change)

...

A reasonably easy procedure, see:https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/126839-a-detailed-pictorial-clutch-soak-how-to/

 

[HotRodZilla]

Ionbeam is 100% correct, as are the others that recommend cleaning & lubing your shifter.

As for the Amsoil...Why? I have been using Rotella or what I find on sale at Cycle gear. THEN the other day I was in my Yamaha dealership and saw that a gallon of Yamalube is only $21. Semisynthetic 10-40. Guess what I'm gonna use from now on. A high dollar full synthetic is not needed in these motors as they don't run that kind of heat.

Extending your service interval is iffy because even synthetic oils shear as they are run through the tranny. Use any oil without friction modifiers and you're good. Don't believe the Snakeoil, Amsoil hype.

Also Yamaha USED to recommend 20-40 until they stopped getting it. Now it's 10-40. So even if you're having your dealer service your bike, it's gonna get 10-40.

 

[HelzBelz]

For the record - insuring my oil level is at the top of the glass, (not over the high mark) has fixed my shifting problems. I was near the low mark, added maybe 1/4 to 1/3 quart, and everything is back to normal.

I did also clean the shifter linkage, but it didn't seem to fix anything. Mine was only externally dirty though, the pivots under the rubber are Pristine at 18k miles.

I am going to hold off on the clutch plate soak for now. besides, I am still awaiting shipment from partshark.. ordered a week ago, they are still awaiting delivery so they can ship to me. (good thing their prices rock)

 

[ionbeam]

For the record - insuring my oil level is at the top of the glass, (not over the high mark) has fixed my shifting problems...

You can duplicate the shifting problems by setting your oil level down a bit?

 

[HelzBelz]

You can duplicate the shifting problems by setting your oil level down a bit?

Well, I suppose I can, BUT I am not going to let some oil out just to see. Admittedly, this will not necessarily fix every shifting problem, but it fixed mine.

I did clean my shift linkage and it changed nothing. I was preparing to perform a clutch soak, but noticed my oil at the lower end of the sight glass, and topped it off.

My shifting became smooth again IMMEDIATELY after topping of the oil, and has stayed that way for about 100 miles since.

This is as scientific a test as I need. Try one fix, note results. Try second fix, note results. It does make me wonder though about the fact that maybe the clutch plates see more oil when the level is higher? (seems pretty logical)

And I realize that I had been using the sight glass all wrong - it is not ok to be near low. If you are near low the sight glass helps you know exactly how much oil needs to be added. halfway between high and low is approx half a quart or liter.