2015 ES vs Standard FJR

[Fred W]

Yeah, the good stuff is seldom cheaper.

 

[bergmen]

Yeah, the good stuff is seldom cheaper.

The MSRP for the 2014 ES was $16,890, the A $15,890. I was able to get the dealer to agree to $15,000 so $1,890 less. Farkle money.

Dan

 

[Warpdrv]

looks like you got a deal close to you on a 15.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Other-/231583668827?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35eb765a5b&item=231583668827

might want give them a call quick - thats not going to last long...

 

[NightShine]

Is the ES model worth the extra money?

Hey, all of the cool kids are getting them!

 

[900gc]

The on-the-fly damping adjustment is mostly a marketing gimmick since the range of adjustment is actually very narrow and the middle setting seems to provide the best ride over any distance on any road surface I have found (and I change the damping constantly trying to find the best ride).

Interesting that you would say that, as that has not entirely been my experience. But it may be the way that I am using it

There are 12 unique programmable settings. Soft, Normal, and Hard at each of the 4 pre-load settings (1 up, 1up w/ bags, 2up, 2up w/ bags). I have programmed all 4 of the Soft positions to -3, all 4 of the Hard positions to +3, leaving all of the Normal settings at 0. There is quite a noticeable difference between Soft -3, Normal 0, and Hard +3 while riding down the road.

As you know, the roads in New England are some of the most scenic, but are some of worst in the country in terms of smoothness. Many seem like old cow paths that were just paved over, and every winter they heave and buckle with frost heaves that never fully recover after the thaw. Running at 1-up Soft -3 (when 1-up) the FJR feels nearly as smooth over the rip-rap as my Vstrom does. But when I do hit some good pavement with a few turns in it, switching it up to Normal or Hard makes a significant reduction in how much wallowing I get.

Carrying a passenger on the ES requires a huge amount of preload on what seems to be about a 800 lb spring or a simple change to the hard position to take advantage of the A model's 950 lb spring (spring rates are my estimates based on a lot of sag comparisons using a 08 FJR that had a 800 lb aftermarket spring). Sag rates between the shocks are almost identical up to a 360 lb load, after that the A models heavier spring is going to out perform the the ES although the difference probably will not be noticeable until the load exceeds 425 lbs.

I guess I am lucky. My pillion weighs only 100 lbs, so even with my current porky-ness we only run around 325 lbs together. IMO, the bike handles quite nicely at the 4 suggested preload settings with our weights.

I went with the ES and happy I did. My only fear is if something breaks. What kind of bill is that going to be?

Right. Even if one has YES, it runs out eventually.

Well, you can get 4 years of YES warranty extension added to the 1 year factory warranty, then you can also extend that for an additional 2 years if you want. So I guess eventually can be put off for as long as 7 years. That will cover any shock or electronic control failures. The trick will be getting a precedent established with Yamaha that when the suspension wears out during the YES that they will rebuild or replace it.

I have not received my YES paperwork yet (I already paid for it at D&H) so I don't know if the language excludes shock wear.

"As you know, the roads in New England are some of the most scenic, but are some of worst in the country in terms of smoothness."

Man, you got that right Fred. I did about 100 miles on Rt. 113 (and 113A) last summer and spent most of that stretch looking intently at the road, searching for anything that remotely resembled smooth pavement. The pounding was brutal at times and made me wish for an ADV or enduro bike. The ES would have been a nice feature and would have certainly helped some.

Ah New England, where else can you ride over exposed tree roots breaking through the pavement.

 

[DHS1981]

I went with the 2014 A after a similar process as Bergmen. A couple of additional thoughts that impacted my decision: technology -- especially regarding suspension and the host of electronic rider aids now available -- is expanding so rapidly that the current ES package on the FJR may well be eclipsed within a couple of years. With the development of the new R1 and its cutting edge technology, we may see an upgraded FJR in the near future, with features such as dynamic suspension and lean angle ABS/TC, etc. Also, I'm curious about the timing of the need for a rebuild of the ES shocks -- 40,000 miles? Less? It doesn't take long for a serious rider to get there. On the other hand, there are a number of reasonably affordable options to rebuild and/or upgrade the A model suspension. Plus, the money I saved by going with the A model easily paid for my custom saddle, riser plate, and auxillary lighting -- all farkles I still would have gotten if I had chosen the ES. If I did a lot of two-up riding (I don't) my considerations might be different, and the ES might be a more attractive option for the ease of adjustment.

 

[Warpdrv]

With the development of the new R1 and its cutting edge technology, we may see an upgraded FJR in the near future, with features such as dynamic suspension and lean angle ABS/TC, etc.

Well I may have waited 10 years for the Gen 3 to come to light, but since Yamaha has finally made the move to start incorporating these new electronic features into the machine, you are right they will only get more refined in this rapidly growing arena..... No way I will wait, or have to wait another 10 years to get the state of the art upgrades for my riding enjoyment...... I mean we're not getting any younger here are we.... Enjoy it while you can, next thing ya know, you'll be stricken to a wheelchair....

 

[Big Sky]

Ah New England, where else can you ride over exposed tree roots breaking through the pavement.

In Montana, you can ride over the actual tree. The two I encountered laying across the road up in the Yaak Country were only 3-4-inch diameter lodge poles, not a big deal.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I haven't been dissatisfied with not having ES all this time, and I don't think I would be playing around with the settings all that much once I had it dialed in....... The cool factor doesn't sway me all that much...... suppose it depends on your riding area and the variety of roughness and how often you encounter it..... but a couple of recent posts of early ES rear shock issues just conjures up repair dollar signs. If you can get YES or extended warranty, then OK, but that's not available to us so cheap as on the US side of the border. Maybe if Yammy would make component parts available instead of the whole assembly or maybe if more aftermarket rebuild guys would be more plentiful.... but somehow, if I bought a Gen III tomorrow, it's most likely going to be the A model, more aftermarket options and cheaper in the long run. Just my spin...... OTOH, if you want the cool ES and it's gonna be useful to you, then go for it.

 

[kebo123]

With the development of the new R1 and its cutting edge technology, we may see an upgraded FJR in the near future, with features such as dynamic suspension and lean angle ABS/TC, etc.

Well I may have waited 10 years for the Gen 3 to come to light, but since Yamaha has finally made the move to start incorporating these new electronic features into the machine, you are right they will only get more refined in this rapidly growing arena..... No way I will wait, or have to wait another 10 years to get the state of the art upgrades for my riding enjoyment...... I mean we're not getting any younger here are we.... Enjoy it while you can, next thing ya know, you'll be stricken to a wheelchair....

+1

 

[Uncle Hud]

Just to be clear, the ES is cool, but that's not why I bought it. As mentioned here, the ES package will likely improve resale value because there should be a higher demand for the ES model. (Even though I cannot imagine I'll ever sell it.)

 

[NightShine]

Just to be clear, the ES is cool, but that's not why I bought it.

 

[Fred W]

Alright, I'll admit it. I am shallow.

I bought the ES because it is wicked cool. And I don't regret the decision in the least.

I've wasted $1000 before on a lot less coolness.

 

[bigjohnsd]

Well, you can get 4 years of YES warranty extension added to the 1 year factory warranty, then you can also extend that for an additional 2 years if you want. So I guess eventually can be put off for as long as 7 years. That will cover any shock or electronic control failures. The trick will be getting a precedent established with Yamaha that when the suspension wears out during the YES that they will rebuild or replace it.
I have not received my YES paperwork yet (I already paid for it at D&H) so I don't know if the language excludes shock wear.

https://www.yamaha-motor-yes.com/esp-terms.html

GENERAL EXCLUSIONS

General Exclusions from this Y.E.S.

Contract shall include any mechanical

breakdown(s) caused by: competition

or racing use; installation of parts or

accessories that are not of like kind and

quality to genuine Yamaha parts; abnormal

strain, neglect, or abuse; lack of proper

maintenance, including storage; accident

or collision damage; contact with foreign

materials or submersion; damage due to

growth of marine organisms on surfaces;

damage due to improper transportation;

damage due to rust or corrosion; modification

to original parts.

SPECIFIC EXCLUSIONS

This Y.E.S. Contract does not cover:

1. NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR ITEMS.

Some examples are tires, brake pads or

shoes, brake rotors or drums, cables, clutch

plates, hoses, fuses, spark plugs, final

drive chains/belts, final drive sprockets,

batteries, replacement filters, light bulbs,

and fluids not required in conjunction

with repairing a mechanical breakdown.

Additional examples for Watercraft include

the impeller, impeller liner, intake grille,

mats, bumpers, body seals or gaskets,

anodes, and control cables. Additional

examples for Snowmobiles include:

skis and ski runners; track; wear strips;

suspension wheels, guide wheels, and/or

any wheel under the track; slide runners;

sliding frame; shock absorbers; and clutch

weights, rollers, pins, and bushings.

2. Mechanical breakdown caused by

improper storage. The customer

must have proof that proper storage

procedures have been completed if

requested by Yamaha in relation to a

specific mechanical breakdown.

3. If a particular mechanical breakdown

is caused by operation or maintenance

other than as shown in the applicable

owner’s manual, that mechanical breakdown

will not be covered by this Y.E.S.

Contract.

4. Mechanical breakdown(s) caused by

parts that have failed due to improper

maintenance.

5. APPEARANCE-RELATED DAMAGE such

as scratches, nicks, dents, fading paint

and trim, tears, corrosion, gel coat stress

cracks, and growth of marine organisms

on surfaces. Seats, padding, upholstery,

cushions, fabric, vinyl, stitching; stains on or

damage or wear to seats, padding, upholstery,

cushions, fabric, vinyl, and stitching.

6. AUDIO COMPONENTS.

7. Mechanical breakdown(s) while the

vehicle is under the Yamaha Limited

Warranty or the Yamaha Boat Components

Limited Warranty or when the

component is covered by a manufacturer’s

modification or recall program.

8. For Yamaha Boats: the hull and deck on

your new vehicle are covered by the

Yamaha Boat Hull and Deck Limited

Warranty for a period of five (5) years.

The Y.E.S. Contract does not provide

coverage for the hull and deck.

9. For Snowmobiles: mechanical breakdown(

s) caused by operation of the

vehicle when there is not adequate snow.

10. Damage from theft, fire, freezing, vandalism,

riot, explosion, flood, hail, lightning,

earthquake, windstorm, water, or collision.

11. Mechanical breakdown or damage to

ANY COMPONENT(S) caused by water,

sand and/or corrosion, or impact with any

underwater object.

12. Loss which occurs due to failure to maintain

proper fluid and/or lubricant levels as

specified by Yamaha or due to improper

oil/gas mixture ratios.

13. FAILURE OF FINAL DRIVE CHAINS/

BELTS OR SPROCKETS, DAMAGE

DUE TO FINAL DRIVE CHAIN/BELT

BREAKAGE.

14. Damage due to alteration, modification

or use of the covered vehicle not recommended

by Yamaha. (In Georgia: this

exclusion does not apply to modifications

made prior to vehicle and Y.E.S.

Contract purchase.)

15. Damage due to failure of “non-stock” or

modified parts.

16. Pre-existing conditions. (Except in

Minnesota.)

17. Vehicles used for commercial purposes.

Examples of commercial use are: rental,

delivery (except in GA), hauling for hire,

police, harbor patrol, or emergency

services. If a vehicle will be used to

make a profit, it is considered commercial

usage.

18. NORMAL MAINTENANCE, ADJUSTMENTS,

TUNE-UPS, PARTS OR LABOR

NOT REQUIRED TO REPAIR A MECHANICAL

BREAKDOWN, OR FLUIDS

NOT REQUIRED IN CONJUNCTION

WITH REPAIRING A MECHANICAL

BREAKDOWN.

19. INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR

PUNITIVE DAMAGES OF ANY KIND

INCLUDING LOSS OF USE. SOME

STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION

OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL,

CONSEQUENTIAL, OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES,

SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSION

MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

20. Failure to show proof of servicing may

result in the denial of coverage.

21. FOR USED VEHICLES, SEALS AND

GASKETS ARE NOT COVERED,

UNLESS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO REPAIR

A MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN

OF A PART OTHER THAN THE SEAL

AND/OR GASKET.

22. THIS Y.E.S. CONTRACT DOES NOT

COVER REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT

OF PISTONS AND/OR RINGS TO

IMPROVE ENGINE COMPRESSION

WHEN A MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN

HAS NOT OCCURRED. LOSS OF

ENGINE COMPRESSION IS NORMAL

WEAR AND TEAR.

I copied the above directly from the Yamaha Motorcycle Website which has the YES contracts for all states available for review.

So looking at all the above, Shock Wear is not specifically called out in either the General or Specific Exclusions.

The only place i see where they might be able to exclude it is under Specific Exclusion 18.

Quote

18. NORMAL MAINTENANCE, ADJUSTMENTS,

TUNE-UPS, PARTS OR LABOR

NOT REQUIRED TO REPAIR A MECHANICAL

BREAKDOWN, OR FLUIDS

NOT REQUIRED IN CONJUNCTION

WITH REPAIRING A MECHANICAL

BREAKDOWN.

Unquote

 

[Fred W]

Thanks. I don't see anything in that language that would exclude a rear shock damper that was no longer damping. Or front forks that were no forking good either.

This reminds me, I need to pester D&H and see where my YES paperwork is. They charged my credit card, but I gots no YES yet.

 

[HotRodZilla]

YES replaced the rear shock on my '07 at around 36k. My service guy agreed that the shock on a $13000 bike should last beyond 50k. Apparently his Yamaha rep agreed with him and sent me a new shock. It helps to have a relationship with these people.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Thanks. I don't see anything in that language that would exclude a rear shock damper that was no longer damping. Or front forks that were no forking good either.
This reminds me, I need to pester D&H and see where my YES paperwork is. They charged my credit card, but I gots no YES yet.

I can see where ES would be useful in the "roughness" you have there, but, if you couldn't get YES, would you have opted for it?

 

[redneckj]

The on-the-fly damping adjustment is mostly a marketing gimmick since the range of adjustment is actually very narrow and the middle setting seems to provide the best ride over any distance on any road surface I have found (and I change the damping constantly trying to find the best ride).

Interesting that you would say that, as that has not entirely been my experience. But it may be the way that I am using it

There are 12 unique programmable settings. Soft, Normal, and Hard at each of the 4 pre-load settings (1 up, 1up w/ bags, 2up, 2up w/ bags). I have programmed all 4 of the Soft positions to -3, all 4 of the Hard positions to +3, leaving all of the Normal settings at 0. There is quite a noticeable difference between Soft -3, Normal 0, and Hard +3 while riding down the road.

As you know, the roads in New England are some of the most scenic, but are some of worst in the country in terms of smoothness. Many seem like old cow paths that were just paved over, and every winter they heave and buckle with frost heaves that never fully recover after the thaw. Running at 1-up Soft -3 (when 1-up) the FJR feels nearly as smooth over the rip-rap as my Vstrom does. But when I do hit some good pavement with a few turns in it, switching it up to Normal or Hard makes a significant reduction in how much wallowing I get.

Carrying a passenger on the ES requires a huge amount of preload on what seems to be about a 800 lb spring or a simple change to the hard position to take advantage of the A model's 950 lb spring (spring rates are my estimates based on a lot of sag comparisons using a 08 FJR that had a 800 lb aftermarket spring). Sag rates between the shocks are almost identical up to a 360 lb load, after that the A models heavier spring is going to out perform the the ES although the difference probably will not be noticeable until the load exceeds 425 lbs.

I guess I am lucky. My pillion weighs only 100 lbs, so even with my current porky-ness we only run around 325 lbs together. IMO, the bike handles quite nicely at the 4 suggested preload settings with our weights.

I went with the ES and happy I did. My only fear is if something breaks. What kind of bill is that going to be?

Right. Even if one has YES, it runs out eventually.

Well, you can get 4 years of YES warranty extension added to the 1 year factory warranty, then you can also extend that for an additional 2 years if you want. So I guess eventually can be put off for as long as 7 years. That will cover any shock or electronic control failures. The trick will be getting a precedent established with Yamaha that when the suspension wears out during the YES that they will rebuild or replace it.

I have not received my YES paperwork yet (I already paid for it at D&H) so I don't know if the language excludes shock wear.

"As you know, the roads in New England are some of the most scenic, but are some of worst in the country in terms of smoothness."

Man, you got that right Fred. I did about 100 miles on Rt. 113 (and 113A) last summer and spent most of that stretch looking intently at the road, searching for anything that remotely resembled smooth pavement. The pounding was brutal at times and made me wish for an ADV or enduro bike. The ES would have been a nice feature and would have certainly helped some.

Ah New England, where else can you ride over exposed tree roots breaking through the pavement.

come on up to the NW, we have some of the best roads anywhere and some of the worst as well. I got my 10 FJR completely airborne on HWY 25 between Randall and Windy Ridge this year. That road has always been bad but every year it goes to another level.

After that you can ride from Service Creek to Antelope in Oregon. Doesnt get any beter than that. YEE HAW!!!

Now back on subject. I hope to see in the future a FJR with a inverted fork with a standard rear shock. That would be a great starting point.

 

[Fred W]

I can see where ES would be useful in the "roughness" you have there, but, if you couldn't get YES, would you have opted for it?

That's a very good (but not great) question. *

I do not know if I'd have gone for the increased complexity of an ES over an "A" model if I did not already intend on forking over $360 for + 4 years of YES warranty. Furthermore, I don't know if I would have gone for any brand new 3rd Gen bike with its added complexity of fly-by-wire, traction control, cruise control, ABS, etc, without knowing up front that the bike can have 7 years of factory warranty coverage.

The fact is that I had foreknowledge of YES availability and pricing, and that played a major part in my willingness to gamble on the higher technology. If the YES had not been there, I'd probably still be riding the Bass Bote Blue '05 and working on my 2nd hundred thousand miles on it.

* The difference between a good question and a great question is a great question is one I know the answer to.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I will answer that one along with Fred W.

I knew on the Demo Ride that an ES model FJR was in my future. I had no doubt. Even as I was concentrating on the ride and my surroundings, a small part of my brain was considering financial and marital strategies.

But I never considered not buying the YES. I was figuring that into my purchase price.