A first time for everything

[mcatrophy]

In all the years I've had a motorcycle, that's about 5 in pre-history (Tiger Cub [don't need no stinking battery to start] - late teens, early twenties) and in the more modern era (Bonneville, Trophy, FJRs), I've never suffered from a flat battery, including many weeks with only commutes to work, 2.5 miles each way.

Except yesterday.

It was cold in my garage, I wanted to see what my bike thought the temperature was, so with engine stop switch in the stop position I turned on the ignition. The temperature indication was -1C.  My battery voltmeter read 11.8 volts.

Since I wanted to use the bike the next day (today), after a bit of thinking even I realised that 11.8 was problematically low. So, training my phone camera on the bike's voltmeter, I went to start it. Result can be viewed here:



Total fail.

Quick trip to son's (yes Mr Policeman, it's an essential trip, my bike won't start) to borrow his battery charger (my long-term denial of ever needing such a requirement shot to pieces), then finding and adapting an old cigar-lighter phone charger plug so I could connect the battery charger to my tyre pump connection, I put it on charge overnight. 

This morning I looked at it, charger was in "maintenance" mode, voltage with my multimeter read 13.2. Much healthier.

Tried the start again



Success! And my multimeter reading agrees with my bike's voltmeter when the bike is charging (always nice to check).

(Click on image for larger view)



Left it running for several minutes until it was nicely warmed up, but after a bit of contemplation decided to use the car to do my errand in case my battery was actually toast and it wouldn't start for my return. So, started the car.

The car's display immediately said "Low battery charge ...". B*gg*r.

But it ran, so I was able to collect my shopping.

Both vehicles have been very under-used over the last 10 months, but never given a problem. I can only guess the relatively cold weather we've been having for the last couple of weeks have been the last straw as far as their batteries are concerned.

Car battery is now attached to son's charger.

Ps. Apologies for aspect ratio of movie clips, my video reduction algorithm is lacking a bit of finesse. [edit] issue at least partially fixed. [/edit]

 

[dcarver]

Welcome to the club my friend!

 

[FJRay]

I have six machines on tenders all winter just so they will start and It's easier than taking the batteries out. If Carver lived in cold country, He would not be able afford all the tenders he would need for his fleet. unk:

 

[dcarver]

I have six machines on tenders all winter just so they will start and It's easier than taking the batteries out. If Carver lived in cold country, He would not be able afford all the tenders he would need for his fleet. unk:

I think I have 12 of them things... from Li to AGM to 6 vdc... Yikes!

 

[juniorfjr]

I have two bikes, one tender. Evert few weeks I switch them. By the way what is -1 Celsius in Fahrenheit? Because it's co,d here too.

 

[escapefjrtist]

I just ride mine to keep them charged! I do treat my son's Wee to a tender every couple weeks.

Managed to get Ten out today for a 60 mile romp. I never overlook dry roads! Leaving the warm house when it's 28F outside did take a little convincing...

~G

 

[Cyclepath]

Hey Junior, -1c is about 30 degrees Fahrenheit (my estimate, but of course Google offers instant temperature conversions too.  :thumbsup:

 

[RossKean]

My bike sits in the unheated garage from early December until mid-to-late March.  I don't own a tender so the battery gets a few hours on a 1.5 amp (max) "trickle charger" a couple of times over the winter.  Nothing but a transformer and simple diode rectifier that is neither constant voltage nor constant current. 

I have a "smart" charger for car batteries and it could probably be used on its lowest current setting (2 amperes) if needed but it isn't designed as a tender - clamps are too big to fit easily anyway without physically removing the battery.  The dumb trickle charger works fine when I need it and I have had no issues with battery longevity.  (2011 bike still has OEM Yuasa battery although reserve capacity is dwindling as it ages - one more year maybe.)  Got similar service life from the OEM battery in my 2007.

 

[juniorfjr]

I just ride mine to keep them charged! I do treat my son's Wee to a tender every couple weeks.

Managed to get Ten out today for a 60 mile romp. I never overlook dry roads! Leaving the warm house when it's 28F outside did take a little convincing...

~G

I'm betting that there's no riding today in the convergence zone.

 

[YummYam]

In all the years I've had a motorcycle, that's about 5 in pre-history (Tiger Cub [don't need no stinking battery to start] - late teens, early twenties) and in the more modern era (Bonneville, Trophy, FJRs), I've never suffered from a flat battery, including many weeks with only commutes to work, 2.5 miles each way.

Except yesterday.

It was cold in my garage, I wanted to see what my bike thought the temperature was, so with engine stop switch in the stop position I turned on the ignition. The temperature indication was -1C.  My battery voltmeter read 11.8 volts.

Since I wanted to use the bike the next day (today), after a bit of thinking even I realised that 11.8 was problematically low. So, training my phone camera on the bike's voltmeter, I went to start it. Result can be viewed here:



Total fail.

Quick trip to son's (yes Mr Policeman, it's an essential trip, my bike won't start) to borrow his battery charger (my long-term denial of ever needing such a requirement shot to pieces), then finding and adapting an old cigar-lighter phone charger plug so I could connect the battery charger to my tyre pump connection, I put it on charge overnight. 

This morning I looked at it, charger was in "maintenance" mode, voltage with my multimeter read 13.2. Much healthier.

Tried the start again



Success! And my multimeter reading agrees with my bike's voltmeter when the bike is charging (always nice to check).

(Click on image for larger view)



Left it running for several minutes until it was nicely warmed up, but after a bit of contemplation decided to use the car to do my errand in case my battery was actually toast and it wouldn't start for my return. So, started the car.

The car's display immediately said "Low battery charge ...". B*gg*r.

But it ran, so I was able to collect my shopping.

Both vehicles have been very under-used over the last 10 months, but never given a problem. I can only guess the relatively cold weather we've been having for the last couple of weeks have been the last straw as far as their batteries are concerned.

Car battery is now attached to son's charger.

Ps. Apologies for aspect ratio of movie clips, my video reduction algorithm is lacking a bit of finesse.

Hey Mac,

Glad you were able to sort it, we tend not to have the cold issue down here. Still need to put the old Matchless (6 volt) battery on the tender every couple of weeks though.

Interested to see I have the same DVM as you do, bought on impulse on a trip to Blighty around eight years ago, I think about seventy quid! Have been pleased with it for strictly amateur use at work and home.  

 

[mcatrophy]

Hey Mac,

Glad you were able to sort it, we tend not to have the cold issue down here. Still need to put the old Matchless (6 volt) battery on the tender every couple of weeks though.

Interested to see I have the same DVM as you do, bought on impulse on a trip to Blighty around eight years ago, I think about seventy quid! Have been pleased with it for strictly amateur use at work and home.  

Not totally convinced it's sorted, I am suspicious of the battery. Started again this morning, but voltmeter dropped to 8.8 during the start, very low. 



As for the meter, it has served me well for a few years, but I dislike the power button. You can't just throw it into the sidecase with other junk without risking it turning on and flattening its battery. It does seem very accurate, when I was working I was able to compare it with a traceable standard, on dc voltage it was spot on. 

I seem to remember you posting about your Matchless a few years ago. Hope you get to ride it (weather permitting, of course, heated gear isn't designed for 6 volts, even if the bike's generator could provide the current).

 

[RossKean]

That seems to have started without hesitation.  I think the voltage dip was too quick for the meter to read correctly.  No slow turnover or blanking out of the dash.  My thoughts are that the battery is OK.  If you aren't riding, you might test it a couple of ways...

Let it sit for a week without any top-up charge and see if the resting voltage has dropped.  If the self discharge rate is high enough to make startup problematic then it's time for replacement.

Start the bike and kill it with the switch or kickstand interlock. (Lights stay on)  Leave it 5 minutes or more (monitoring voltage) and try to restart.  If there is difficulty then reserve capacity is too low.

Of course, the gold standard for capacity and cranking amps is a proper load test at a battery shop.  (Doesn't help with self-discharge evaluation)

My battery would easily pass on the self-discharge test and probably maintains sufficient cranking volts but would likely fail the reserve capacity check. I usually carry a lithium battery jump starter for battery emergencies,  especially since I do a fair amount of camping with the bike.  (Jump starter had issues last year and needs replacement)

Good luck.

 

[mcatrophy]

That seems to have started without hesitation.  I think the voltage dip was too quick for the meter to read correctly.  No slow turnover or blanking out of the dash.  My thoughts are that the battery is OK.  If you aren't riding, you might test it a couple of ways...

Let it sit for a week without any top-up charge and see if the resting voltage has dropped how it works.  If the self discharge rate is high enough to make startup problematic then it's time for replacement.

Start the bike and kill it with the switch or kickstand interlock. (Lights stay on)  Leave it 5 minutes or more (monitoring voltage) and try to restart.  If there is difficulty then reserve capacity is too low.

Of course, the gold standard for capacity and cranking amps is a proper load test at a battery shop.  (Doesn't help with self-discharge evaluation)

My battery would easily pass on the self-discharge test and probably maintains sufficient cranking volts but would likely fail the reserve capacity check. I usually carry a lithium battery jump starter for battery emergencies,  especially since I do a fair amount of camping with the bike.  (Jump starter had issues last year and needs replacement)

Good luck.

Starting was normal. My voltmeter averages 64 readings every quarter second to display, its lowest reading was 8.8v for 0.25s. Since it averages readings, the voltage will have gone below the displayed figure, but not for long. This lowest reading I've seen occasionally when starting, though it's usually a minimum of around 9.2v.

The tests you suggest are all useful. I am starting with the simplest (read warmest and/or laziest) of leaving it for some days. Unless I decide to ride it (no legal reason to do so for a while, but ...). 

 

[Fred W]

In all of my past winters I always just parked the FJR in our attached but unheated garage and mostly left it alone except for cycling a battery tender between it and the multiple other bikes.  
 

Now in retrospect my 2014 never has started quite as eagerly at any time as my ‘05 always did (except once with a dead battery).  This fall I decided to move the FJR up into the “equipment shed” to make room for the tractor, which means it won’t be moved out of the shed until after Vermont mud season, around May sometime.  That was probably a mistake.  
 

I did try to start the bike in late fall to move it in the shed, and that was a no-go.  A couple of quick puffs of ignition and the nuttin.  Put charger on and had same response twice.  I’m now waiting until spring while keeping the battery maintained in hopes that it was just too cold (which it might have been).  But my WeeStrom, Africa Twin and Wr250 all managed to start no problems.  And after a recharge it seems to crank for a good long while before slowing down.

It is a 2014, so maybe the battery is done.  I would certainly be OK with that.  Or it could be that the ever present resident rodents built a little nest in the airbox up there in the shed, which I will investigate in spring.  I got rid of all the the mice this fall with a “walk the plank” type bucket mouse trap.  Cleared out over two dozen of them, fed to the wild animals in the woods out back.  But the damage may have been done to the air box beforehand.  There was a big nest under the seat of the WeeStrom, but they didn’t seem to get in the airbox.

Not worried.  Just part of life in the country.

 

[mcatrophy]

Luckily for me, mine started happily once it had some charge in the battery. 
 

My mother-in-law once had mice get under the bonnet (translation for the ex-colonials: hood) of her car, ate lots of wire insulation, car wouldn't run. That was on a farm (where Wifey was brought up). Put some sort of repellent round it (I've no idea what it was), that seemed to keep them away.