A Real-Life Scene from COPS

[James Burleigh]

Last night after work I took a client out to dinner and a Warriors basketball game (my first basketball game ever, at any level--cool). Now, as a RESPONSIBLE drinker and rider-driver, I knew at dinner I could have moderate alcohol even though my bike was parked next to the restaurant, because I had a dinner and basketball game ahead of me before I'd be getting on the bike in a few hours to go home. Of course on a bike I'd (typically) only risk my own hide if I rode drunk, not that of others.

Coming home at 10:30 PM I had the roads and highways practically to myself. As I was about a mile from home and coming up a sweeping, broad, empty arterial, I see a big red SUV ahead of me in the left of the two lanes going in my direction. He's going pretty slow, so I come off the throttle, signal right, and start to get over, but wait for him to complete his slow, unsignaled lane change so I know when and where I can pass. But then he drifts back into his original lane... then back over to the right...then left, all going way under the speed limit.

OMG! This son-of-a-***** is drunk! :angry2:

Now, I've been driving for, say, 35 years. And believe it or not, I have never in my life seen such a textbook case of drunk driving. I've only seen this kind of egregious drunk driving on TV's wildest cop video programs. I'm f**kin' outraged! This guy's gonna kill someone! So I reduce speed and get well behind him. I'm going to follow this SOB till I can flag down a cop. But really I'm feeling helpless, because I can't call anyone, and it's late with few other cars around.

Well, I follow this guy for about three miles, crawling along and watching him almost hit parked cars and drift over the line, and I'm praying someone (like my 17-year-old daughter who's on her way home for 11 PM curfew) isn't going to encounter this guy, with me only being able to watch.

Naturally, I can't find a cop. I wind up following this guy all the way to a small, one-lane cul-de-sac where I finally stop and back off as I watch the truck pull into a driveway because I'd be boxed in if he suddenly reversed it or came stumbling out of the cab at me, or someone out of the house.

I sighed and headed on home feeling defeated, and left wondering what recourse I have, if any. And curiously, I don't feel malice toward this unknown person, because I'm sure he or she isn't a bad person, just stupid, probably an alcoholic....

Jb

Frustrated and angry in California

 

[ponyfool]

In all my years of finding and arresting drunk drivers, most of the people that I have seen that were that "drunk" weren't actually drunk but were diabetic and on very low blood sugar. The drunks that are that bad I usually don't see until after they have plowed into a car/tree/hydrant/building/etc because they don't typically make it very far.

Too bad you couldn't have called it in though. If he/she was drunk, they need to be dealt with!

 

[airboss]

I'd say get the plate number and stop at a payphone to call it in, but with the advent of cellular I can't remember where I last saw a payphone.

Medical reasons or Alcohol doesn't matter that person shouldn't have been operating a vehicle of any type.

 

[cougar8000]

That is why I have a bluetooth on my helmet. Had to call cops one time already.

 

[ponyfool]

Medical reasons or Alcohol doesn't matter that person shouldn't have been operating a vehicle of any type.

I didn't get into that aspect, but I think you are exactly right!

 

[HaulinAshe]

I've had to do it before. Carefully get close enough to get the tag number (if you can). Pull over to the side, whip out the cell phone and dial *HP. Give the dispatcher the vehicle description and the road you are on.

You hate doing it, but you would hate yourself even more if the next day you're watching the news and see where that same truck killed two teenage girls in a head-on collision.

In my line of work I travel a lot in the off-hours (mid-morning, after-midnight) on rural roads. I often see locals who are making their beer run in POS old Cadillacs, pickup trucks etc. Always seems to be some massive piece of outdated steel that makes a good car crusher on the wrong side of the road. They know the roads very well and are just sober enough to make it from their home to the area convenience store for a refill 12-pack. They can usually keep it between the solid white lines but often manage to take out a mailbox and send someone toward the side ditch before making it home.

You just have to call them in. Just do it. I bet since the dude you followed actually managed to make it into his driveway without taking anything out, that he has done that route and in that shape before. He'll keep doing it until somebody dies.

You know where he parked. Call the Highway Patrol and let them know what you witnessed and when. Your daughter will appreciate it. There's nothing they can do about it now. But they can let the officer(s) who normally work that area, know about the report. It might make a difference someday.

 

[FJamR]

A friend of mine @ work recently has gone through what I don't even want to imagine. A guy with diabetes and low blood sugar plowed into his wifes car at a very high rate of speed, while she waited @ a stoplight. After lanching her car through the intersection and into a wall, the guy still had the throttle pinned and ran into them again and kept his car floored wile pushing against them. Witnesses had to run over and turn off his car. His daughter in the backseat was killed and his wife was in critical condition and flown to the hospital. Another thing that is chilling about it was he was on his way home when he happened on the scene.

3 months later

It just burns me up, whether some ****wad being drunk or too irresponsible to maintain their proper bloodsugar level and unable to control their ride, while putting our families, friends and our lives @ risk.

 

[radman]

Some interesting observations here. I am uniquely qualified to add my own, as I would qualify as being experienced in both the title subject and, being diabetic, ponyfools commentary.

As of 2/21/07, I will have been sober 8 years.

As of 9/1/07, I will have diabetic for 18 years.

On the first, the wife and I did some rudimentary mathmatics, and estimated I deserve approximately 6000 DWI's. You see, I was an extremely talented (and extremely lucky) drunk driver. I could drive better one eyed than many drive sober with two. Many was the time I was followed by a cop while 8 sheets to the wind, never was I pulled over. Do it enough, and one can get pretty good at it. Without any other reason to pull me over (tailight out, speeding, etc), I never seemed to get so much as a how do you do from the Law Enforcement Community. I always went several miles over the limit, just like everyone else. Perfect lane discipline. All lights operative, license plates current. Don't stand out, you're likely to get away with .40, which I'm sure I was at many times. A professional drunk will never get noticed, as PF can probably agree with, till his/her luck runs out, often but not always taking some poor innocent out in the process.

As a diabetic, I have done very well. Except for that one time. You see Airboss, one doesn't leave the house in a diabetic low, climb in the car, and raise holy hell on the nations roads. In my case, I went Xmas shopping, I believe it was 2002. Bought a few things for my daughters, left the mall, came to in an ambulance 1 1/2 hours later, having been found laying in a farm field roughly 15 miles from home. The car was finally discovered having cleared a drainage ditch about 10 feet wide, very much airborne (est speed 75 mph) after clipping a sign at the end of a dirt road that T'ed, crossing the field, going through some woods, and jumping the ditch, coming to a rest after it killed due to the impact tripping the fuel pump safety shut off Ford products are known for. I started hoofing it, almost making it to the road but passing out. Blood sugar was at 17 when I was discovered (near death). PF is right, suspected drunks are sometimes discovered to be perfectly sober, but in the throes of a diabetic low, which imitates inebriation almost perfectly, except diabetics that are low can be MUCH more difficult to deal with, think PCP like in strength and belligerence. While I am much more careful in testing etc before setting out on any road trip (it was quite the wake up call), there is no guarantee it won't happen again. Just last night, I came to with 2 cops and 2 paramedics hovering over me (99.9% of my catastrophic lows occur at night). For me, it is just part of the deal I guess. Can't stop living, and overall, I am much less a threat to public safety than I once was, but I'm still one of those on the road that one should keep their eyes open for, and the cell phone on the seat where it belongs. I am thankful that when I totalled that Grand Marquis that no one else got in the way, but then, I seem to have a history of not involving others in my difficulties. Thats my story, my contribution to this thread, do with it what you may....

 

[FJamR]

Some interesting observations here. I am uniquely qualified to add my own, as I would qualify as being experienced in both the title subject and, being diabetic, ponyfools commentary.
As of 2/21/07, I will have been sober 8 years.

As of 9/1/07, I will have diabetic for 18 years.

On the first, the wife and I did some rudimentary mathmatics, and estimated I deserve approximately 6000 DWI's. You see, I was an extremely talented (and extremely lucky) drunk driver. I could drive better one eyed than many drive sober with two. Many was the time I was followed by a cop while 8 sheets to the wind, never was I pulled over. Do it enough, and one can get pretty good at it. Without any other reason to pull me over (tailight out, speeding, etc), I never seemed to get so much as a how do you do from the Law Enforcement Community. I always went several miles over the limit, just like everyone else. Perfect lane discipline. All lights operative, license plates current. Don't stand out, you're likely to get away with .40, which I'm sure I was at many times. A professional drunk will never get noticed, as PF can probably agree with, till his/her luck runs out, often but not always taking some poor innocent out in the process.

As a diabetic, I have done very well. Except for that one time. You see Airboss, one doesn't leave the house in a diabetic low, climb in the car, and raise holy hell on the nations roads. In my case, I went Xmas shopping, I believe it was 2002. Bought a few things for my daughters, left the mall, came to in an ambulance 1 1/2 hours later, having been found laying in a farm field roughly 15 miles from home. The car was finally discovered having cleared a drainage ditch about 10 feet wide, very much airborne (est speed 75 mph) after clipping a sign at the end of a dirt road that T'ed, crossing the field, going through some woods, and jumping the ditch, coming to a rest after it killed due to the impact tripping the fuel pump safety shut off Ford products are known for. I started hoofing it, almost making it to the road but passing out. Blood sugar was at 17 when I was discovered (near death). PF is right, suspected drunks are sometimes discovered to be perfectly sober, but in the throes of a diabetic low, which imitates inebriation almost perfectly, except diabetics that are low can be MUCH more difficult to deal with, think PCP like in strength and belligerence. While I am much more careful in testing etc before setting out on any road trip (it was quite the wake up call), there is no guarantee it won't happen again. Just last night, I came to with 2 cops and 2 paramedics hovering over me (99.9% of my catastrophic lows occur at night). For me, it is just part of the deal I guess. Can't stop living, and overall, I am much less a threat to public safety than I once was, but I'm still one of those on the road that one should keep their eyes open for, and the cell phone on the seat where it belongs. I am thankful that when I totalled that Grand Marquis that no one else got in the way, but then, I seem to have a history of not involving others in my difficulties. Thats my story, my contribution to this thread, do with it what you may....

I'm not sure if you are being facetious, if not, Jim and I thank our Higher Power that you live in Minnesota.

 

[evilmedic13]

Some interesting observations here. I am uniquely qualified to add my own, as I would qualify as being experienced in both the title subject and, being diabetic, ponyfools commentary.
As of 2/21/07, I will have been sober 8 years.

As of 9/1/07, I will have diabetic for 18 years.

On the first, the wife and I did some rudimentary mathmatics, and estimated I deserve approximately 6000 DWI's. You see, I was an extremely talented (and extremely lucky) drunk driver. I could drive better one eyed than many drive sober with two. Many was the time I was followed by a cop while 8 sheets to the wind, never was I pulled over. Do it enough, and one can get pretty good at it. Without any other reason to pull me over (tailight out, speeding, etc), I never seemed to get so much as a how do you do from the Law Enforcement Community. I always went several miles over the limit, just like everyone else. Perfect lane discipline. All lights operative, license plates current. Don't stand out, you're likely to get away with .40, which I'm sure I was at many times. A professional drunk will never get noticed, as PF can probably agree with, till his/her luck runs out, often but not always taking some poor innocent out in the process.

As a diabetic, I have done very well. Except for that one time. You see Airboss, one doesn't leave the house in a diabetic low, climb in the car, and raise holy hell on the nations roads. In my case, I went Xmas shopping, I believe it was 2002. Bought a few things for my daughters, left the mall, came to in an ambulance 1 1/2 hours later, having been found laying in a farm field roughly 15 miles from home. The car was finally discovered having cleared a drainage ditch about 10 feet wide, very much airborne (est speed 75 mph) after clipping a sign at the end of a dirt road that T'ed, crossing the field, going through some woods, and jumping the ditch, coming to a rest after it killed due to the impact tripping the fuel pump safety shut off Ford products are known for. I started hoofing it, almost making it to the road but passing out. Blood sugar was at 17 when I was discovered (near death). PF is right, suspected drunks are sometimes discovered to be perfectly sober, but in the throes of a diabetic low, which imitates inebriation almost perfectly, except diabetics that are low can be MUCH more difficult to deal with, think PCP like in strength and belligerence. While I am much more careful in testing etc before setting out on any road trip (it was quite the wake up call), there is no guarantee it won't happen again. Just last night, I came to with 2 cops and 2 paramedics hovering over me (99.9% of my catastrophic lows occur at night). For me, it is just part of the deal I guess. Can't stop living, and overall, I am much less a threat to public safety than I once was, but I'm still one of those on the road that one should keep their eyes open for, and the cell phone on the seat where it belongs. I am thankful that when I totalled that Grand Marquis that no one else got in the way, but then, I seem to have a history of not involving others in my difficulties. Thats my story, my contribution to this thread, do with it what you may....

Too true,I've had more than my share of mva's involving a "drunk" turn outto be diabetics w/ a b/s of <30! and hypoglycemic diabetics are a ***** to fight when they are that low. I just usually have my partner distract them while I give them glucagon in the form of a punch to the arm/thigh, whatever I can access. They usually get pissed but after 4 mins or so their b/s is up enough for them to be lucid and accept an IV w/ a D50 injection.

Scariest was a 6'5 black guy that weighed about 340lb stumbling on an accident scene ,just like a "drunk", when I asked if he anything to drink he said "Idon't think so" in a slighty confused manner, I knew he was a diabetic. B/S of 18!!!!, he unfortunately took his insulin and THEN went to order some food. Tried to make it home, but alas, didn't.Luckily, nobody was hurt that time.

There are some diabetics we call "brittle" diabetics, their sugar can be 120 at 0817 and by 0819 they're unconcious w/ a b/s of 20, even though they've eaten and done everything they're supposed to. Those are the one's I feel bad for,even as they're fighting to get away from us.

 

[radman]

I'm not sure if you are being facetious, if not, Jim and I thank our Higher Power that you live in Minnesota.

Facetious? Guess I don't know where you get that, but whatever. Must have skipped over the "sober" part. As for the other, I may live in Minnesota, but others like me live next door.

[Too true,I've had more than my share of mva's involving a "drunk" turn outto be diabetics w/ a b/s of <30! and hypoglycemic diabetics are a ***** to fight when they are that low. I just usually have my partner distract them while I give them glucagon in the form of a punch to the arm/thigh, whatever I can access. They usually get pissed but after 4 mins or so their b/s is up enough for them to be lucid and accept an IV w/ a D50 injection. Scariest was a 6'5 black guy that weighed about 340lb stumbling on an accident scene ,just like a "drunk", when I asked if he anything to drink he said "Idon't think so" in a slighty confused manner, I knew he was a diabetic. B/S of 18!!!!, he unfortunately took his insulin and THEN went to order some food. Tried to make it home, but alas, didn't.Luckily, nobody was hurt that time.

There are some diabetics we call "brittle" diabetics, their sugar can be 120 at 0817 and by 0819 they're unconcious w/ a b/s of 20, even though they've eaten and done everything they're supposed to. Those are the one's I feel bad for,even as they're fighting to get away from us.

Thats me all right, as I age the "brittleness" gets worse and worse. I have no doubt it's what will end my riding days. Not something I look forward to.

 

[black mamba]

Having once been a pharmaceutical salesman, I am very familiar with the world of diabetics. Certainly, I have empathy with the situation they deal with. But, in the case of a guy like Radman, I'll be damned if I would ever get on any bike again.

 

[James Burleigh]

I'm not sure if you are being facetious, if not, Jim and I thank our Higher Power that you live in Minnesota.

Real empathetic.... :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

I for one appreciate your sharing your first-hand experience, Radman. Thanks.

My initial reaction on seeing this driver was to pillory him / her somehow on YouTube or such. But yours and other postings help me understand (what is, after all, the American way) that we need to have all the information before we condemn someone as guilty.

Jb

P.S. If the "Jim" in the quote above is meant to be me, it ain't true.

 

[MKO]

You see, I was an extremely talented (and extremely lucky) drunk driver. I could drive better one eyed than many drive sober with two. ...Do it enough, and one can get pretty good at it. ... Don't stand out, you're likely to get away with .40, which I'm sure I was at many times. A professional drunk will never get noticed, as PF can probably agree with, till his/her luck runs out, often but not always taking some poor innocent out in the process.

There was an interesting show on Discovery or the Learning Channel about perceptions of your ability to drive effectively when you're drunk and the reality of it. They had a bunch of Highwat Patrolman go through a driving course with orange cones sober than at varying degrees of drunkeness. Granted, most HP are not professional drunks, but each thought their ability was not impaired after reaching .10 BAC and some thought they were more able... until they ran the course and the cones began to fly.

So I guess getting quite good at driving with one eye and a .40 BAC is a very relative term. Compared to other drivers with a .40 BAC and two eyes, you may have been the best. But I guarantee you that compared to a sober two-eyed diabetic little old lady who only drives to church on Sunday, you drove like a... drunk. :blink:

 

[radman]

There was an interesting show on Discovery or the Learning Channel about perceptions of your ability to drive effectively when you're drunk and the reality of it. They had a bunch of Highwat Patrolman go through a driving course with orange cones sober than at varying degrees of drunkeness. Granted, most HP are not professional drunks, but each thought their ability was not impaired after reaching .10 BAC and some thought they were more able... until they ran the course and the cones began to fly.
So I guess getting quite good at driving with one eye and a .40 BAC is a very relative term. Compared to other drivers with a .40 BAC and two eyes, you may have been the best. But I guarantee you that compared to a sober two-eyed diabetic little old lady who only drives to church on Sunday, you drove like a... drunk. :blink:

Could be. The fact I got away with it for so long would seem to indicate otherwise. We need to get something straight here. I in no way am proud of my past, nor do I have any patience for those who drive drunk. Hating what I saw happening to people hit and killed or injured by drunks yet driving drunk myself exposed a hypocrisy that led to my getting treatment and becoming what all see today-still weird but a sober weird. Nor am I impressed with myself for having survived my journey into Farmer Lows fields, though no-one else was involved, that might not have been the case but for Lady Luck still being my co-pilot. What the above was meant to illustrate is that the guy weaving around may indeed get the attention, but you are surrounded by those who's impairment isn't quite so obvious, nor as loaded with seemingly evil intention. I for one am much more careful before driving/riding: ask those who've been with me: my first action at any stop is to test and adjust. The ones I am with are informed of my condition, what to look for, and what to do should impairment or other indicators display themselves. Few are more cautious these days than I, knowing as I do all too well just what awaits us on Americas highways and byways.

 

[tripletango]

Having once been a pharmaceutical salesman, I am very familiar with the world of diabetics. Certainly, I have empathy with the situation they deal with. But, in the case of a guy like Radman, I'll be damned if I would ever get on any bike again.

Rad's a very good rider. I have ridden with him a couple of times and will ride with him anytime. The reason being he has rationalised and corrected his problems.

i am just dam glad i don't have either of the diseases.

I am not sure of the stats but isn't one in 5 drivers driving while legally impared. Maybe Ponyfool has the answer to that

Another stat wether right or wrong - 30% of the population is a user or abuser of all different types of drugs. Maybe I am off here but someone is making the dealers very rich and causing us to spend billions on interdiction.

 

[FJamR]

I'm not sure if you are being facetious, if not, Jim and I thank our Higher Power that you live in Minnesota.

Real empathetic.... :thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Empathy was not my objective.

I understand one of Radman's diseases--one day at a time since June 4th, 1999. The other, maybe I am just ill informed with diabetics I know personnally. They seem to keep their condition managable through keeping their blood sugar monitored closely. Maybe there are other types of diabetics where that isn't as easy.

Seeing what a friend and his family have gone through tells me that if there are certain types of diabetics that are unable to control their blood sugar and maintain consciousness, they should definitely never be driving.

 

[black mamba]

While I don't know him personally, I'll certainly accept Radman as a good person and a competent rider. However, by his own admission, he is subject to a diabetic " episode " at any time. Most of the time he is able to control his condition, but there are times when, as he says, things go wrong. Speaking out of concern for him, riding a bike with that additional risk in mind doesn't seem to be too advisable to me.

 

[radman]

I'm also subject to morons with cell phones at any time. Subject to episodes of a buck fifty on the speedo at any time. Deer, lowsides, Global warming. All part of the Big Plan, when my day comes, it comes. What, you bums wanna live forever?