ABS

[sparky3008]

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/sho...ead.php?t=85613

I know the topic of ABS on bikes has been discussed to death on this forum.

Many people swear by it and others don't.

https://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/lvabs.htm is a good read.

Now obviously this is not directly related to motorcycles but is good information of ABS in cars and trucks.

Here is a senario. If you hit the brakes hard in a panic stop the ABS gives you the ability to maneuver the steering wheel but at a sacrifice of stopping distance. It also engages many times when it really shouldn't such as on ice, bumpy roads and in heavy trucks such as mine going down hill.

Now how many in a panic stop are actually able to maneuver to avoid the front impact, and if you did would you then hit a car beside you or perhaps even then head on?

These are some of the questions the .gov article addresses.

 

[sparky3008]

Here is a quote from one of the guys on the other forum.

Guys, Not all ABS stinks but ours does. If we had a true 4 channel real time brake modulator for the ABS you could not stop faster. What we have is dual channel ABS. If one of the wheels on that channel loses traction the modulator pulsates the fluid which typically shifts the braking to the other channel which because the most effective stopping is on the channel that isn

t currently pulsing those two wheels doing most of the braking lose traction then it pulses and all of a sudden all wheels are pulsing and braking remains controlled but far away from threshold braking. There is no way for ABS to be faster to slow or shorter stopping distances than educated and practiced threshold braking. Even if you skid and release and reapply the braking you will stop faster. On the huge discs and pads on these trucks if you mash the pedal to the floor the rear tires may lose traction but the fronts will dig in until the pavement gives up. With Dual channel ABS when you hit the brakes without a load on the back, one or both of the rears will easily lose traction and then the fronts are reduced to 50% brake application time. I'm going to check it out but I'm not going to flat spot my tires to prove a known fact. ks

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Too Late! The uneducated American buying public has already *bought-in* on ABS. Don't try to confuse them with facts.....

 

[radman]

You guys are right. I'm throwin' this piece of **** bike in the garbage right after I post this.

 

[sparky3008]

You guys are right. I'm throwin' this piece of **** bike in the garbage right after I post this.

Not trying to say anything as definitive as that.

I am pointing more at my truck than this particular motorcycle.

Again the article I pointed as .gov was again more about trucks and suv's and with my truck (Dodge) in particular the ABS system is lacking.

Also the facts about ABS may be something one might want to take into consideration with their skill level and in some cases a less skilled braker may do better without ABS depending on the quality of the system.

 

[radman]

You guys are right.  I'm throwin' this piece of **** bike in the garbage right after I post this.

Not trying to say anything as definitive as that.

I am pointing more at my truck than this particular motorcycle.

Again the article I pointed as .gov was again more about trucks and suv's and with my truck (Dodge) in particular the ABS system is lacking.

Also the facts about ABS may be something one might want to take into consideration with their skill level and in some cases a less skilled braker may do better without ABS depending on the quality of the system.

Yeah, a re-read shows you guys are truck talking rather than scoot, but still......

A lot of this supposes the driver has some skill, which is just the opposite of my observations. The average driver wouldn't know brake pedal modulation from frozen waffles. But then, most don't, can't, or won't use ABS for it's intended purpose-steering out of trouble. The **** hits the fan, it's all they can do to try to continue the cell conversation describing the unfolding scene as both feet try to lengthen the passenger compartment and the one free hand is cracking under the strain of the death grip on the wheel, if not raised in futility guarding the eyes.....

 

[sparky3008]

You guys are right.  I'm throwin' this piece of **** bike in the garbage right after I post this.

Not trying to say anything as definitive as that.

I am pointing more at my truck than this particular motorcycle.

Again the article I pointed as .gov was again more about trucks and suv's and with my truck (Dodge) in particular the ABS system is lacking.

Also the facts about ABS may be something one might want to take into consideration with their skill level and in some cases a less skilled braker may do better without ABS depending on the quality of the system.

Yeah, a re-read shows you guys are truck talking rather than scoot, but still......

A lot of this supposes the driver has some skill, which is just the opposite of my observations. The average driver wouldn't know brake pedal modulation from frozen waffles. But then, most don't, can't, or won't use ABS for it's intended purpose-steering out of trouble. The **** hits the fan, it's all they can do to try to continue the cell conversation describing the unfolding scene as both feet try to lengthen the passenger compartment and the one free hand is cracking under the strain of the death grip on the wheel, if not raised in futility guarding the eyes.....

True that.

I don't have ABS fjr so I don't know anything about how well it actually works.

I can say in my 7000 lbs Dodge Ram it comes on way to fast and more than once have felt I had enough room but the ABS wasn't going to let me stop in time so I had to take evasive manuevers. Fortunately I had somewhere to go each time but sure eventually I won't.

Anyway more of a thread to spark some thought on each persons individual ride and skill because they are both going to be different and in my case my Dodge ABS sucks...

 

[motorgod]

Try keeping your bike up after you lock the front wheel....good luck...not a worry with ABS...that's the real test..not better stopping distances..and don't say "I'll just let off the brake!" not too many of us can think that clearly in a true panic situtation...were just trying not to crap our pants...

 

[sparky3008]

Try keeping your bike up after you lock the front wheel....good luck...not a worry with ABS...that's the real test..not better stopping distances..and don't say "I'll just let off the brake!" not too many of us can think that clearly in a true panic situtation...were just trying not to crap our pants...

Not what my post was entirely about but, in the MSF course they actually do want you to go in a straight line and lock the brakes. The instructors will say that if the bikes is upright and straight the front wheel will not go out from under you.

True that in a panic situation though as soon as you hit the brakes you may also try and "dodge" not "ram" the car/truck in front of you and swerve. With ABS and the brakes pulsating you have this option but again in a panic situation how many people are actually skilled enough to do anything but hope they stop...

 

[FJRottie]

how many people are actually skilled enough to do anything but hope they stop...

Who cares....How many people are actually skilled enought to just drive.

I'd say, maybe 50% of all the wonders on the road actually know what they are doing.

 

[sparky3008]

how many people are actually skilled enough to do anything but hope they stop...

Who cares....How many people are actually skilled enought to just drive.

I'd say, maybe 50% of all the wonders on the road actually know what they are doing.

Read the government report and you may find that if you don't care many should...

ABS is not the answer everyone seems to think it is...

Carry on... This was meant to create a since of question and for you to search your own answers.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Carry on... This was meant to create a sense of question and for you to search your own answers.

Therein lies the crux of the matter -- some would prefer to transfer the task of their riding skill/safety to the god of technology. My main gripe is the trade-off of putting up with how poor abs systems feel (all the time) for that once (if ever) braking on ice situation. There must be alot of brake skidders out there (or ice riders?) to make this necessary? Yea, I know it's "cheap insurance" -- no, Y.E.S. is "cheap insurance" -- I'm confused.....isn't cheap insurance cheap insurance?

 

[FJRottie]

Read the government report and you may find that if you don't care many should...ABS is not the answer everyone seems to think it is...

Carry on... This was meant to create a since of question and for you to search your own answers.

I don't need to search anything, I know the answer.

What I meant in my previous post was, it does not matter what is built, what technology comes out,

what new invention is made, or how things are changed. Some will buy it, some will not.

In the big picture, all this does not help all those idiots who cannot drive in the first place.

I am sure we all drive to work and see an example of an inconsiderate moron every time.

You can put rubber all around your car, magic safety foam, and automatic take me to work mode, humans are stupid and will **** it up anyway.

I am not synical, angry, or upset. I am a realist and quite happy.

A spade is a spade. Some will agree and some will not.

What is the big point.....ABS is ABS, thats nice. Buy it or don't.

 

[sparky3008]

Read the government report and you may find that if you don't care many should...ABS is not the answer everyone seems to think it is...

Carry on... This was meant to create a since of question and for you to search your own answers.

I don't need to search anything, I know the answer.

What I meant in my previous post was, it does not matter what is built, what technology comes out,

what new invention is made, or how things are changed. Some will buy it, some will not.

In the big picture, all this does not help all those idiots who cannot drive in the first place.

I am sure we all drive to work and see an example of an inconsiderate moron every time.

You can put rubber all around your car, magic safety foam, and automatic take me to work mode, humans are stupid and will **** it up anyway.

I am not synical, angry, or upset. I am a realist and quite happy.

A spade is a spade. Some will agree and some will not.

What is the big point.....ABS is ABS, thats nice. Buy it or don't.

Well, actually ABS is not ABS. Many different forms of it and by different manufactures and some work better than others. In my case on my truck it is a 2 channel not a 4. On your bike it only affects the particular brake you engage vs. next years integrated braking abs system. So no they are not all equal and for some actually disengaging their system helped their system perform better.

I am not trying to tell you personally to do squat but some less knowledged may want to at least realize that abs is not the cure all for bad driving as many seem to think it is...