Another good time to stay right?

[Toecutter]

From another forum, just found last night:

I wanted to share this info with motorcyclists here. As a result of 35 years of riding and the experience as a 25 year veteran police officer and accident investigator I feel I wanted to share this info.
I have examined the left turner crossing in front of the cyclist by both vehicle accidents, interviews, and participation by myself as a vehicle operator making the left turn in practice in front of cyclists practicing this maneuver and as a motorcyclist encountering the same. I have learned that this may work for you under certain conditions.

You may notice as a vehicle operator making a left when a bicycle or motorcycle is approaching you that you see plenty of space as you look toward the intersecting L. turn you are attempting to make.

This is especially present if the motorcyclist is riding near the yellow line as taught in many books and MSF classes. This gives the vehicle operator the GREEN light so to speak to make his left turn as he/she believes the turn can be made safely.

If you cut off the vehicle operators path by riding close to the white fog line you will notice that the vehicle operator has no space to make his move towards the road that he/she is trying to reach. More than likely the driver will remain on his side of the road and yield until you pass through. Also a slight weave from left to right as you get into position toward the fog line startles the driver enough to let you pass through the intersection. Has anyone found these manuevers to work for them?

Also, from the right side of the oncoming lane, you will appear to be moving more across the cager's line of sight than directly into it, which might catch their eye better and help them judge your speed, but by all means, never trust another vehicle to do anything in order to keep you from hitting it. It's all on you to avoid contact, since you will be the loser of most any confrontation.

I might just have to go sign up over there, and spread a bit of my own gospel....

 

[cougar8000]

While you do that. Please educate that old veteran that MSF DOES NOT teach riding next to yellow line. Would ya, please

 

[Toecutter]

A gold star to the kid in the front row on reading comprehension! :clapping:

What does MSF teach to avoid the left-turning cagers? I don't remember it being covered in my class....

 

[7xray]

Thanks Toe. Food for thought. I think that makes some sense although if I am going through an intersection in a line of cars I like to be in the left portion of the lane so oncoming traffic sees me and doesn't think there is a gap they can shoot through.

Cheers,

7X

 

[cougar8000]

We do not really have time to cover all situations, but here is what I and people that I teach with say.

Most of the time you can not beat the cage by speeding up. Slow down. Pay attention to the hand on the bars. They generally start moving first as well as tires. Do not bother with making eye contact that much. we all heard story of when driver looked right at me right before....

There is no right or wrong lane position. As long as you are visible. Use horn, I would stay away from flashing high beam. many think that it means go ahead. If it is 4 lane road, try to have another vehicle next to you or close to you to run the interference. Again, Slow down.

 

[Toecutter]

We do not really have time to cover all situations, but here is what I and people that I teach with say.
Most of the time you can not beat the cage by speeding up. Slow down. Pay attention to the hand on the bars. They generally start moving first as well as tires. Do not bother with making eye contact that much. we all heard story of when driver looked right at me right before....

There is no right or wrong lane position. As long as you are visible. Use horn, I would stay away from flashing high beam. many think that it means go ahead. If it is 4 lane road, try to have another vehicle next to you or close to you to run the interference. Again, Slow down.

You mean hands on the steering wheel, right?

I tend to slow down, to the point I could avoid contact if they go, until I'm out of the danger zone. I don't look for hints that they might go, only outs if/when they do. The local P.D. motor teachers tell the students to "Steer to the rear", meaning aim to miss behind the moving car that enters your path, as opposed to trying to beat the car to a "hole".

All that other stuff sounds good too, especially the "slow down" part....

 

[fjrob1300]

I've had my bike license for almost 28yrs. I've crashed once (myfault) . I haven't taken a riders course but did take drivers ed when I finally got my car lic. and one of the most important things I remember from the videos was this... Always look at the big picture in front of you. What I think that translates into is this : Ride to the road conditions, Ride to the trafic conditions, Pay attention to the road around you, try and have an exit plan in tight situations. I try to ride as though they never see me. Defensive riding first.

my 2c

 

[cougar8000]

You mean hands on the steering wheel, right?
I tend to slow down, to the point I could avoid contact if they go, until I'm out of the danger zone. I don't look for hints that they might go, only outs if/when they do. The local P.D. motor teachers tell the students to "Steer to the rear", meaning aim to miss behind the moving car that enters your path, as opposed to trying to beat the car to a "hole".

All that other stuff sounds good too, especially the "slow down" part....

correct, hands on the wheel.

I do not know if I would go for the rear. There might be another one ready to turn.

I tend to stay left until just before the intersection and then tend to swerve to the right section. By that time I know there is no danger from the right and now I can put another 8 feet between me and whom ever is going to turn left.

FJ Rob is right. Problem is it is extremely hard to teach it.

 

[Bounce]

A gold star to the kid in the front row on reading comprehension! :clapping:
What does MSF teach to avoid the left-turning cagers? I don't remember it being covered in my class....

SIPDE

Scan, Identify, Plan, ?, Execute

now called something like Scan, Plan, Execute

the only thing you can do to "avoid" anything from anywhere is to scan for it, identify a potential risk, plan various options and execute your plan. in the case of BDC's it means slowing enough to be able to stop safely in the event they do the worst thing possible.

 

[cougar8000]

A gold star to the kid in the front row on reading comprehension! :clapping:
What does MSF teach to avoid the left-turning cagers? I don't remember it being covered in my class....

SIPDE

Scan, Identify, Plan, ?Decide, Execute

now called something like Scan, Plan Evaluate, Execute

the only thing you can do to "avoid" anything from anywhere is to scan for it, identify a potential risk, plan various options and execute your plan. in the case of BDC's it means slowing enough to be able to stop safely in the event they do the worst thing possible.

There. Now you are golden

 

[TechJunkie]

A gold star to the kid in the front row on reading comprehension! :clapping:
What does MSF teach to avoid the left-turning cagers? I don't remember it being covered in my class....

SIPDE

Scan, Identify, Plan, ?Decide, Execute

now called something like Scan, Plan Evaluate, Execute

the only thing you can do to "avoid" anything from anywhere is to scan for it, identify a potential risk, plan various options and execute your plan. in the case of BDC's it means slowing enough to be able to stop safely in the event they do the worst thing possible.

There. Now you are golden

Yup and the Cougar has it! :yahoo: :clapping:

I took the MCF in June of this year and it they taught the SEE approach. SEE-Search, Evaluate, Execute. Search for a place to land, Evaluate the most direct path to your landing spot and Execute your landing while minimizing the number of broken bones.

Ok, that is not exactly how they explained it but with some of the stupidity I have witnessed from cagers it is what goes through my mind at times.

 

[Toecutter]

SIPDE

Scan, Identify, Plan, ?Decide, Execute

now called something like Scan, Plan Evaluate, Execute

There. Now you are golden

The cops I got some training from teach "SPA"- Search, Predict, Act. Very similar.

The underlying theme is situational awareness and 100% focus with skills and confidence to do what's needed to survive.