Another group ride goes way bad

[Toecutter]

The rider lived, but I'm fixin' ta get up on my safety soapbox again here pretty quick....

Here's a reading assignment:

Clicky and a chance to see some gnarly pics (linked).

 

[FatNakedGuy]

rider error..

I did that a couple of times when I first started riding with the SoCal guys. Thought I was supposed to try keeping up with the guys in front (hadn't been told to ride my own ride at that point) and nearly wiped out a couple of times. When I met Armand (BigD!) it was true love all over the place because he taught me to hang back and smell the roses. Is that too ghey? He does make a mean breakfast.. ride on!

 

[TriggerT]

Good reminder for some group rides I have coming up with guys I KNOW are faster than I am. Ride YOUR ride.

 

[Bounce]

yep. this is exactly the type of situation we were always concerned about during the SFO rides. a group of mix-skilled riders with a few pushing others to "expand their envelope" that would end up badly of those being pushed couldn't say no.

 

[madmike2]

Good reminder for some group rides I have coming up with guys I KNOW are faster than I am. Ride YOUR ride.

Yeah...[SIZE=12pt]"Ride you own ride!"[/SIZE]

That's the mantra that is quoted, but not necessarily or often applied or heeded in the throws of exuberance.

MY personal application:

When I'm leading a "group" ride that has been posted and will be attended by many riders, I don't "play hoon". I tell everyone at the start, "We are riding the speed limit +5 mph" (I have been known to "wick it up" in wide open spaces...mea culpa..but not in twists and turns or mountain roads.). Those who want to ride faster have maps I provide and know the planned rest/lunch stops.

OR, another option that has worked is what I call a "shared destination" ride. Everyone knows the route and destination, pairs or groups up accordingly and enjoys the ride to a certain point. We did this on the Hwy 36 adventure 2 years ago. We met in Red Bluff on Friday night, then rode to Fortuna/Eureka on Saturday. (I was fortunate to have teamed up with OrangevaleFJR--uhm, we had fun!) Hwy 36 reportage link

A couple of years ago, after riding mid-pack and sweep on some rides in the local mountains, I stopped organizing group rides. I witnessed far to many incidents of people NOT riding "The Pace" (Linked Here). I saw too many instances of people running wide (even one or two on the dirt shoulder) with some crossing over or riding on the centerline, riders not managing space, riders not aware of what those in front of them were doing, etc. The above in not an indictment, merely an observation.

I (Me, Myself) came to the conclusion that, if I still wanted to enjoy the comraderie and social aspects of the group I was leading (because I feel a certain responsibility as the organizer/leader) I was going to have to ride a bit more conservatively. This is MY choice and decision. And, since I've done a couple of rides in this manner, I like it very much.

If someone else has organized the ride, I've been known to "hang back" and ride my own ride. If I'm slower, I'll still enjoy the scenery and roadway, and see them at lunch 15 minutes later. If I'm faster, I get to work on my patience and my technique. Its a win-win attitude!

IF I am going to ride more "spirited", I may contact a couple of riders by email and not post that particular adventure for the "general" population.

For me, the idea of a ride is to be able to ride home, and ride again tomorrow....and the next day...and the next day. I now understand why some have chosen to ride alone and not participate in "group" activities.

YMMV.

 

[Toecutter]

Luckily for me, when I first got the bike and started going on group rides, I always had a pillion to keep me self-disciplined. I know when I'm pushing my luck, and I just wouldn't do it when Eve was along. Her comfort zone was somewhat short of my own, so she might tell differently.

Now, I'm more often solo, I know better and I rarely ride with groups. Bad drivers in a cage are enough, and I can just leave them. Bad riders in a group are a recipe for disaster.

Imagine being the guy who had to watch helplessly as the other rider went in deeper and deeper over his head, and how he would have felt if the outcome was a fatality, having to tell his story to the authorities and family members again and again.

I bet they didn't have a pre-ride briefing, at least not one of MM2's caliber.

Group rides are fun, but the risk/reward factor goes up exponentially. I won't leave the bike in my mirrors, unless it's been pre-discussed and we all know where the next stop is.

There's no way to know if the pack mentality was a factor in Farkles' demise, but we all know it happens way too much.

If the group is going too fast, it would be the guy in the lead that wiped out. When it's a rider toward the back, evidence points to excessive limitation pushing. Don't be that guy! Ride your ride and ride to survive.

Group rides and shared-destination rides are completely different activities, and need to be predetermined and ridden accordingly. Optimally, the riders in lead and sweep in a group should be in radio contact, and, in a group, the lead doesn't run off or play hare and hounds.

A good pre-ride huddle and discussion will take the risk factor way down, as will riding "The Pace". As we sit on the frontside of another weekend, let's consider putting it into practice and experience the difference between street and track riding.... :yahoo:

The PaceSeparating street from track, riding from racing

writer: Nick Ienatsch

"The Pace", first appeared in the November 1991 issue of Motorcyclist magazine.

Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment; the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled, mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim. Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding. But as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed riding at The Pace.

A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in 1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides. Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.

THE PACE

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.

If the brakes are required, the front lever gets squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road, a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most thrilling aspect of performance street riding.

YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT

Crossing the centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms, you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to a crash.

Exact bike control has you using every inch of your lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and settles your bike for the drive out.

More often than not, circumstances do not permit the full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that line.

A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS

The street is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.

Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.

New rider indoctrination takes some time because The Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.

There's plenty of ongoing communication during The Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return. If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride with a group, you are right.

RELAX AND FLICK IT

I'd rather spend a Sunday in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in mind when sport bikes evolved to the street.

But the machine isn't the most important aspect of running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a racetrack.

The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself on the street.-MC

Be careful out there!

I'll add one bit of my own advice, based on experience and watching better riders ride their ride: I don't like to apex turns on mountain roads for several reasons, some of which are pointed out in the above-quoted article. Also, when using the whole lane, you're crossing the part of it, leaned over and on borrowed traction, where the cage tires rarely run and, consequently keep the lane cleaned off. The middle part is where their motor and transmission runs over, and where you'll find all the leaked fluids associated with that situation. The right side will have more gravel, but being at a speed to handle it anyway just keeps me safer and better ready to deal with a lane violator coming the opposite direction.

Why straighten out a perfectly good corner? Go have fun, but don't leave anything but tire wear behind....

 

[cougar8000]

Mike, there are very few people who are willingly slow down and keep the pace down. It takes lots of humility to do this. When even newbs trying to make fun of your slow speed. They just do not get it.

 

[madmike2]

I bet they didn't have a pre-ride briefing, at least not one of MM2's caliber.

Why, Bob, I didn't think you'd noticed.

Y'know, since we've been riding with others that have been known for some time, I haven't given one of my infamous lectures lately. It WILL be on the agenda for the next ride I organize.

1) I stress (though it isn't always followed) a minimum 2-second gap between bikes. 3-seconds is better.

2) I list a some things I really hate:

A.) Crashing. Crashing is bad. Please don't do it.

B.) Blood. I hate seeing blood. It soils otherwise nice riding apparel.

C.) Bones. I really really hate seeing bones sticking out through skin.

D.) Phone calls. I really don't ever want to make THAT call to your wife, S.O., children or other family.

 

[rnees]

...and this is why I don't do group rides... :grrr:

I have a bike so I don't have to deal with the morons, not to get caught up in the middle of them.

:nea:

...but then I'm not terribly social on the best of days...

 

[madmike2]

...and this is why I don't do group rides... :grrr: I have a bike so I don't have to deal with the morons, not to get caught up in the middle of them.

:nea:

B-b-b-but this thread isn't about NOT doing group rides. :nono:

It IS about how to do them safely and successfully. :yes:

...but then I'm not terribly social on the best of days...

So we've noticed. And not opinionated or judgemental, either.

 

[HuskyRider]

Same thing happens on group dirt bike rides. Taken care of injured dirt bikers, been taken care of myself. Competitiveness is part of human nature and especially males. I just want to ride at my own pace (speed limit) and enjoy the scenery, if that means riding alone so be it.

 

[cougar8000]

...but then I'm not terribly social on the best of days...

So we've noticed. And not opinionated or judgemental, either.

He is German and trying to maintain a bad *** image. :yahoo:

 

[madmike2]

He is German and trying to maintain a bad *** image. :yahoo:

Jah! Und vy ist dis conzidered a walid excuse, hmmmm? Vas ist dat he ist zee only vun uff Cherman descent? Dat he ist zee only "square-head" und zo ist zee badt vun? Achhh...

Some things are in our lives to be overcome.....

[SIZE=8pt]My Paternal Grandfather was an immigrant from Germany, Grandmother first generation American born German. My Maternal Grandfather is 1/2 Irish/1/2 Cherokee, maternal Grandmother is 1/2 German-1/2 "57 varieties. I don't want to here about "bloodline personality issues". Its a choice![/SIZE]

 

[cougar8000]

Ya,

Ich war einfach zu machen, ein bißchen komisch

[SIZE=8pt]p.s. I hope translation is correct. It was translated by google.[/SIZE]

 

[bigdolma]

rider error..
I did that a couple of times when I first started riding with the SoCal guys. Thought I was supposed to try keeping up with the guys in front (hadn't been told to ride my own ride at that point) and nearly wiped out a couple of times. When I met Armand (BigD!) it was true love all over the place because he taught me to hang back and smell the roses. Is that too ghey? He does make a mean breakfast.. ride on!

The ghey is Strong in you my young apprentice

Remember the BigD theory.....

"It does not matter how you ride, but how you look when you ride"

Armand

 

[FJRBluesman]

Toecutter and madmike2;

Gunny! Great reading.

Glad he's alive.

I can't add anything. Lets all learn from this.

 

[Toecutter]

One thing's for sure, the maturity level here is quite a bit higher than the forum from which I posted the ride report. Check out this closed topic where another member got on his safety soapbox.

 

[Fairlaner]

Mikey needs a bigger BOX.....

R

But we love him anyway.

 

[dcarver]

Well, Toe,

I say get up on the soap box and freakin RANT, maybe someone on this forum, being typically a bit older and perhaps a bit more cerebral, will read, understand, and apply what you are trying to say.

On a personal note folks, Toe's, uhh, diatribe, about 'Ride right to survive' rant saved my freaking *** on a typical ride from work home on 229, a local very twisty and desirable road. Did I learn and apply, from reading 'theory' that Toe and MadMike espouse? You betcha, and I'm posting tonight as a higher mileage, every day FJR rider.

I had the great pleasure of riding with James Burliegh and Silent this weekend. Often, as fearless leader, I was out front, running roads I ride on a weekly basis; for them these roads were brand new, they had put down many miles to get in my hood, and as such, running tired, on new roads, they each consciously chose to ride their own ride, slow it down, be safe. I noticed they had dropped off the pace, so I slowed my speed until both were comfortable and in the rear view's, and we had a great, fun, and SAFE weekend. In fact, the 'trail riders' set the pace of the 'lead rider' by their conscious decision to slow the fook down. And as lead rider, with what I consider to be the inherent responsibility for the group's safety, I too slowed down. And, quiet frankly, we had a GREAT ride.

So listen up folks, and Toe, MM2, and others, keep getting up on that soap box. Don't want to shed any more tears over folks on the forum I've never met, and *especially* over folks I know and have ridden with, people I consider life long friends. Get it? I do. I hope you do too.

So there.