Another "rough running" problem

[Denver_FJR]

Recently began experiencing a rough running condition between idle and 2,000 RPM and hoping the collective has some insight as to cause or how to troubleshoot. In no particular order I'll throw out symptoms and observations. Bike is an '07 with about 12k miles. I'm 2nd owner and had it since about 2k miles. Original owner had ECU and ignition recalls performed. Last TBS was Nov '10 at about 9k miles. Battery is also original. No mods other than battery tender pigtail direct to battery.

Symptoms

Bike starts fine and when cold revs to about 1500 RPM. As expected, idle drops down to about 1100 as it warms up. If I attempt to give slight throttle, it stumbles and pops but has never stalled. If I continue to increase throttle, eventually RPMs will increase and it will get past the rough running and runs smooth from about 2000 RPM on up. This occurs even once engine has warmed up (two bars showing on temp gauge). Additionally, while driving, the engine will not maintain steady speed at any RPM range. I can either accelerate or decelerate, but cannot maintain.

More observations

Problem began after having ground harness recall performed by local dealer. Upon starting bike at dealer, I initially attributed the rough running to the ECU being disconnected and having to learn correct FI settings. It's happened several times since the harness upgrade and I'm now at the end of a 2nd tank of gas. I've found one condition that appears to correct problem, full throttle. While riding, I'll upshift to 4th or 5th and give it full throttle for just a second. Once hitting full throttle, idle problem is gone and bike will easily maintain speed.

Troubleshooting

I've performed TPS check via Diag screen several times while engine was both hot and cold and while condition was present. Throttle is smooth, diag output ranges from 16 to 101 and no gaps seen as throttle is increased.

Checked under tank for obvious loose connections - none.

Checked battery terminal connections - good.

I typically do maintenance in fall, so TBS is coming up but since problem appears to clear upon use of full throttle, I'm skeptical this is root cause.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Matthew

 

[JamesK]

One obvious problem is lack of use/miles, since an '07 with 12k is not even properly run-in yet

But seriously though, the symptoms sound like a vacuum leak, you mention that you've checked under the tank, but I'd trace all the vacuum hoses to make sure one has not been left disconnected.

 

[Afast03nNJ]

Problem began after having ground harness recall performed by local dealer.

Go back to the dealer that just did the work and tell them it's not running correctly after the work they did.

 

[Denver_FJR]

Some updates...

Replaced air filter and did TBS. No better.

Borrowed an infrared thermometer... inner header pipes are running about 300°, while outer pipes are about 250°. Is this significant? I had done a BJM mod many months back, bumping each cylinder up about 5 pts. Frankly I never noticed a difference and during the summer reverted back to factory settings. The thought of trying to second guess the factory settings without actually measuring exhaust didn't sit well with me.

I'm running through the FI troubleshooting section of the FSM. The test for the "pressure difference" (diagnostic code 3, p8-73) says to set engine to run, press starter and watch for change in readout. When I hit starter the engine starts and rather then see the pressure readout change, I'm getting code "ER-1" displayed on dash. "ER-1" indicates "No signals from ECU". Engine does run, so hard to believe this is valid code. There are no codes stored otherwise.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Why don't you check you ECU Connector and see if it is Seated Properly.

Have you run some SeaFoam in the System?

https://www.seafoamsales.com/gasoline-engine-faqs.html

Might have some Varish, etc in the Fuel Injector system.

Do a Tank of this and see if you still have problems...gotta get ready for Winter anyway.

Good Luck...

 

[Denver_FJR]

One obvious problem is lack of use/miles, since an '07 with 12k is not even properly run-in yet

But seriously though, the symptoms sound like a vacuum leak, you mention that you've checked under the tank, but I'd trace all the vacuum hoses to make sure one has not been left disconnected.

Ha! I commute every day I can during spring/summer/fall, but not so much during winter. Compared to some coworker riders I'm considered hard core... compared to some on the forum, well...

I'm digging into vacuum and connectors now, thanks.

Go back to the dealer that just did the work and tell them it's not running correctly after the work they did.

That's not off the table, and it may come to that.

Why don't you check you ECU Connector and see if it is Seated Properly.

Have you run some SeaFoam in the System?

https://www.seafoamsa...ngine-faqs.html

Might have some Varish, etc in the Fuel Injector system.

Do a Tank of this and see if you still have problems...gotta get ready for Winter anyway.

Good Luck...

I've reconnected ECU connector several times in course of checking connections and replacing air filter. Also inspected tank and it's spotless. What gets me is how a full throttle application consistently cures it, until it's sat for a while.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Well... Me being me and far from logical/normal....

First thing I would do is head back to the dealer and inform them they fuked up.. Bike didn't have this issue until Billy Bob Howard fuked with it. At this point i would inform service manager that, unless he wanted to dig my size 13 double e outa his ***? He may want to work to rectify the situation Howie caused..

Sounds like a vacuum issue. Either a leak with yer scoot.... or a vacuum between the techs ears.

Take it back.

 

[ahchiu]

Have you checked that the battery terminals + & - are tight, a bad ground can cause the stumbling.

 

[Denver_FJR]

Another update.

After FI troubleshooting, lots of tugging on cable and hoses and not finding anything, started it and ran great with all headers running about 320°. I think the previous difference in header temps is significant and also that the two headers running at lower temp are on a common coil (cylinders #1 and #4).

I don't think its coincidental that the new factory ground harness runs through the same port (below frame and to the right side of the fairing) as the ignition wires. Pulled and tugged some more on the ignition wires as well as power leads to coil but don't see any problems. No signs of arcing or loose connectors and otherwise can't induce problem.

Man, when it runs good it REALLY RUNS GOOD!

 

[Jagermeister]

Why don't you check you ECU Connector and see if it is Seated Properly.

Have you run some SeaFoam in the System?

https://www.seafoamsales.com/gasoline-engine-faqs.html

Might have some Varish, etc in the Fuel Injector system.

Do a Tank of this and see if you still have problems...gotta get ready for Winter anyway.

Good Luck...

SeaFoam +1. I didn't believe it until I tried it.

My 08 had intermittent rough idle issues last year (45k miles at the time). Cleaning out the fuel system made it purr like a kitten again.

 

[Dave Mc]

Denver,

Did you ever find the cause? This sounds very much like the issues I am having with my 07? To date, I have changed the battery and added Chevron fuel injector cleaner to the gas tank, but I not finished with the first tank of gas. Started the bike last night and it still has the same problem.

 

[Denver_FJR]

Funny you should ask! Over the past couple days I've noticed it's coming back, but not with the severity I originally encountered.

I've not tried gas treatments only because I'm not convinced a blocked fuel system would exhibit intermittent symptoms like I've experienced. I've put several tanks of gas in bike since initial troubleshooting and problem doesn't appear related to brand or duration fuel has been in tank, aka ethanol phase separation.

I've come across several threads relating to running problems which later appeared to have been related to bad battery. Seems counter-intuitive that battery could have enough juice to start bike but not enough to power everything once engine is running (and being fed by alternator). My '07 still has original battery, so it's been in the back of my head I may be experiencing same problem. Since you also changed yours and didn't cure your problems... well now I'm not so sure.

Next steps?

• I'm going to put a DC meter on bike to see if I can correlate problems with low system voltage and to get an idea of what's going on electrically.
• I'd like to find some non-ethanol gas! There's really quite a few posts on the forum regarding engine running/stumbling issues. Wondering if this E10 crap (in Denver) is at best only marginal for our bikes... sometimes the system can cope and other times it stumbles. Looking at website pure-gas.org, unfortunately there's nothing nearby.
• Clean up battery terminal connections. They're not corroded, but want those ready-kilowatts flowing as freely as possible.
• Double-check coil connections, it was tugging on the 12v wires last time that seemed to resolve issue, so may need to dig in and check those connections.

Man, I'll say it again, when engine is running well, it really runs great. Smooth from idle up to redline. Kinda makes me wonder if some folks adding throttle cams and Power Commanders aren't chasing the wrong solution.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

If you want to try Pure Gas, check your local Sunoco Gas stations where, at least here, they offer Racing Fuel for about $8.50/gal.

You may want to swap out your battery for they can cause some weird issues as well as a weak coil.

Here is a Weak Coil post on the FZ1 Forum:

The Fix post: https://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2241725&postcount=185

The Main Post: https://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117941

Hope it settles out for you.

 

[gumba]

Denver FJR - It's the fuking battery. Been going through the same scenario. Try a good trickle and if that helps, it's the battery.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I would try Seafoam first as a cheap fix, 60-70% naptha and 30% isopropanol, mostly to aborb water. Techron is mostly naptha and Stoddard solvent (naptha-like), no alcohol. Don't discount water in the fuel even if it has only been a week or so since you filled up.

Also for those who think the battery is the issue, not likely IMHO if the voltage reads good on a cranking test, but those that changed batteries may have now started with clean connections. Clean yours, not likely done for quite some time. Another cheap fix and hopefully will cure it. If not, with those commutes, are they at least a half hour or more long? Over time you may not have fully gotten to operating temps on everything, possible build-ups on intake valves, etc. The FJR is a sport touring machine not a short commute bike!! Needs a good run every week.... Anyway, hope that helps get you started on the path to resolution.

 

[RavFJR]

Denver FJR - It's the fuking battery. Been going through the same scenario. Try a good trickle and if that helps, it's the battery.

I agree with this... Had the very same problem with my 09. Did everything that was suggested here... Swapped the battery out and she prrrs like a kitten now.

 

[Dave Mc]

To those saying it's the battery...I've replaced mine and I still have the same problems. However, tonight I will go back and remove my trickle charge harness and optional fuse expansion panel from the battery terminals and clean positive and negative connections really good, but I don't think this is going to do anything.

 

[SkooterG]

To those saying it's the battery...I've replaced mine and I still have the same problems. However, tonight I will go back and remove my trickle charge harness and optional fuse expansion panel from the battery terminals and clean positive and negative connections really good, but I don't think this is going to do anything.

I have no idea what your problem is, but it wouldn't be the first time around here if a 'brand new battery' was not-so-good from the get-go.

 

[namelessnigel]

Kinda makes me wonder if some folks adding throttle cams and Power Commanders aren't chasing the wrong solution.

Not this particular folk!

PCiii and change of throttle cam definitely fixed the touchy throttle problem with my 2006. The problem you are having is not the same and I would agree a PCiii would not be a solution.

I'm sorry I don't have anything to contribute to the problem discussed here, I just wanted anyone who was searching Power Commander to not be led into confusing two different problems.

Cheers,

nameless