Any Reason to avoid Mobil 1 10w40 "High Mileage"

[rfulcher]

I used the search function, didn't help much.

I know I can use any oil without the energy conserving starburst. The Mobil 1 10w40 "High Mileage" is easy to find locally, it is synthetic, and is the weight I want to use. Not asking what is best, not asking about other oils. I know clean oil is good oil, change often, etc.. I assume "High Mileage" is marketing just hype. Just want to verify that there is nothing in the Mobil 1 "High Mileage" that would make it from being a bad choice.

 

[ngarider]

From Calsci:

Executive summary: The commercial grade oils are clearly superior to the mass market oils. For the best protection in your bike or car, use Shell Rotella Synthetic, available at Wal-Mart in blue containers for $13 / gallon. For the best petroleum oil you can buy, get Shell Rotella T, Mobil Delvac 1300, or Chevron Delo 400, about $7 / gallon at any auto parts store. On the back of most oil cans is a circular stamp with the certification. Avoid oils that say "energy conserving" in the bottom half of the donut. These oils contain friction modifier additives that could cause clutch slipping over time. All XXw-20 and XXw-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your motorcycle. 10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission. Don't buy any oil additives like STP or Slick-50. Here's several pages All About Oil justifying these conclusions.

https://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html#Oil

 

[madmike2]

Google is your friend: high mileage oil site:fjrforum.com

[SIZE=8pt]An "easier" way to search the FJR Forum. [/SIZE]

Simply type in your subject, in this case: "high mileage oil" followed by a "space", then: site:fjrforum.com

 

[Kevin Daly]

I would only add that while this is a NEPRT, i think that maybe we shoudnt junk the thread for a while because this is important for the new comers to read.

The right oil is importnat as indicated by ngarider. most agree that oils like Shell Rotella, which are designed for desile engines, are really the best balance between price and quality for a wet clutch (see the post that Jestal made via MM2's post). Once i started using rotella I noticed a difference is shift smoothness but also the price is not really beatable: I think auto s=zone sells it for like 8-9 dollars for a reload.

 

[rfulcher]

Google is your friend: high mileage oil site:fjrforum.com
[SIZE=8pt]An "easier" way to search the FJR Forum. [/SIZE]

Simply type in your subject, in this case: "high mileage oil" followed by a "space", then: site:fjrforum.com

I used this exact same query and others prior to posting and it did not come up with much. The only almost answer was the first result but this referred to oil for old cars. I really like using google for searching the FJR forumo

From Calsci:
...10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission...

https://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html#Oil

I think that was a "no" I don't buy it. If I take this literally then only MC oils can be used.

I thought this would be a yes/no answer, maybe I was too optimistic <_<

 

[Scab]

I really like using google for searching the FJR forumo

If that's how you spelled FJR forum, then I think I know why your search was less than successfull.

Couldn't help it, man. You left the door open.

 

[Zorlac]

I really like using google for searching the FJR forumo

If that's how you spelled FJR forum, then I think I know why your search was less than successfull.

In Italy it would have been successful.
Is the Mobil HM oil much cheaper than Rotella T Synth?

I just wish more places carried Rotella T synth other than just Wal Mart.

 

[madmike2]

Google is your friend: high mileage oil site:fjrforum.com
[SIZE=8pt]An "easier" way to search the FJR Forum. [/SIZE]

Simply type in your subject, in this case: "high mileage oil" followed by a "space", then: site:fjrforum.com

I used this exact same query and others prior to posting and it did not come up with much. The only almost answer was the first result but this referred to oil for old cars. I really like using google for searching the FJR forumo

So, your saying that Jestal's answer in this link didn't answer your question?

name='ngarider' post='362155' date='Jan 25 2008, 10:17 PM']From Calsci:
...10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission...

https://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html#Oil

I think that was a "no" I don't buy it. If I take this literally then only MC oils can be used.

I thought this would be a yes/no answer, maybe I was too optimistic <_<

I agree. The "multi-weight" isn't the issue. I've run 10-40 Castrol and Motul. The problems arise with the friction modifiers ("high mileage"; "energy conserving"; etc.). Jestal is the resident automotive engineer and explains it quite well.

 

[C&C]

If I'm not mistaken, high mileage oils contain certain ingredients that slightly swell some of the seals, to help reduce excess burning of oil in older, more experienced engines. I would not use a high mileage oil in a brand new engine. I do, of course, yield to any comments from Jestal on all matters oil.

 

[rfulcher]

So the answer to the first part of your question is that I feel the "for older engines" oil is primarily a marketing ploy. If the engine is older and relys on more protection from the lubricants then there is certainly an advantage to using the non-GF4 oils that contain additional antiwear protection. That oil might or might not be labeled as "for older engines" however.

So, your saying that Jestal's answer in this link didn't answer your question?

Lots of info in that post.

I think he implies that the "for older engines" is just marketing hype. Probably does not matter. what do you think about this oil. Yes/no

 

[madmike2]

Some of the oils for older engines and especially oils like the Mobil Extended Service products are specifically NOT GF4 rated if you look. So the natural assumption would be that they contain no friction modifiers and have more antiwear protection.......

This is the definitive answer. It doesn't contain the chemicals that are bad ju-ju for wet clutches, so it would be safe to use in your FJR.

 

[rfulcher]

Some of the oils for older engines and especially oils like the Mobil Extended Service products are specifically NOT GF4 rated if you look. So the natural assumption would be that they contain no friction modifiers and have more antiwear protection.......

This is the definitive answer. It doesn't contain the chemicals that are bad ju-ju for wet clutches, so it would be safe to use in your FJR.

Thats about the way I read it. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Bill]

From Calsci:
10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission.

Apparently, Honda doesn't agree with that Calsci's recommendations when it comes to their motorcycles.

Honda GN4 is 10w-40 and Honda HP4 is also available in 10w-40 My Goldwing managed 145,000 miles on 10w-40 and my CBR1100XX has gone almost 60,000 miles on the same weight oil. Last time I checked, both motorcycles ran the engine oil through the transmission.

 

[Baz]

From Calsci:
10w-40 oils should not be used in a motorcycle that runs the engine oil through the transmission.

Apparently, Honda doesn't agree with that Calsci's recommendations when it comes to their motorcycles.

Honda GN4 is 10w-40 and Honda HP4 is also available in 10w-40 My Goldwing managed 145,000 miles on 10w-40 and my CBR1100XX has gone almost 60,000 miles on the same weight oil. Last time I checked, both motorcycles ran the engine oil through the transmission.

Ok here is an explanation for you. The further apart that the two weight numbers are in oil, the more the base stock needs to be altered.

Non Synthetic 10W40 oils require lots of Polymer addition to reach the 10w40 weight range, but the shear that occurs to polymers when they go through transmission gears does not make regular 10W40 the bets choice for the beast. Goggle test results for motorcycle oil and some of the 3rd party test results may shock you. A good deal of oil is badly altered in 600 miles because of this. (The 10w40 turns to 10W30 or 10W20) This causes engine wear to increase.

Synthetic 10W40 is quite a different animal however, because they are starting with a pretty uniform base stock. (synthetic base stock is about as perfect as oil gets) They do not have to add as many polymers, so less shear factor occurs in the transmission.

If you goggle these tests, you will find that Synthetic oil breakdown is much less than standard oil.

So both statements are correct.

Another thing to consider. Most Engine wear occurs at cold start up. 10W40 is best for preventing this.

BUT

a poor quality or broken down 10w40 weight oil will not give you the best protection when the engine is hot. So when riding through the desert, 20W40 is better as a rule, as long as the 20w40 your using is high quality.

I would just advise you that when you read the oil breakdown test results, be a little skeptical as to who did the test.

My good friend is a petroleum engineer for one of the major oil companies. He claims the following.

You can make an Engine run just as long on cheap oil as you can with top of the line synthetic oil. The only difference is that you must change the cheap oil more frequently. By the way he also says that when you get into the high end oils, there is not a lot of difference in quality. The difference between brand A or band B will mean very little in the life of an engine.

Make sure you use oils that are wet clutch friendly. (a whole other debate)

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>My good friend is a petroleum engineer for one of the major oil companies. He claims the following. You can make an Engine run just as long on cheap oil as you can with top of the line synthetic oil. The only difference is that you must change the cheap oil more frequently. By the way he also says that when you get into the high end oils, there is not a lot of difference in quality. The difference between brand A or band B will mean very little in the life of an engine

Note: please don't misconstrue that to mean -- you can run 'top of the line synthetic oil' longer (just because it costs more -- or, for some other un-specified reason). Oil change intervals should (ideally) be determined by: on-board oil-life monitors, periodic analysis, or adhering to manufacturer's recommendations -- not how much you paid for the oil.

Even the most expensive oils get dirty......

 

[jestal]

As mentioned in another post....the concern over 10W40 oils is pretty much and old wives tale caused by experience with SE and SF rated 10W40 oils of the 70's and 80's. The 10W40 does have a lot of viscosity improvers in it and the VI's of the day were very prone to shear down and/or cause ring belt deposits due to their poor quality. The viscosity improvers in any oil today are synthetic (whether it is synthetic oil or conventional the VI additives are synthetic) which are far far more resisitent to shear down and deposit formation. I wouldn't worry about using a 10W40 oil and Honda does recommend that viscosity range. Just keep in mind that the 10W40 oils available today are far far superior to the 10W40 oils of old that generated all the problems and negative test results that keep surfacing.

I suspect the older synthetic 10W40 oils performed better due to the fact that the VI's were synthetic in addition to the base oil. The synthetic VI's were available "back then" but were much more expensive and used only in fully synthetic products, not the conventional products. Today synthetic VI's are necessary for ANY oil to pass the API performance requirements for SM ratings.

 

[Baz]

As mentioned in another post....the concern over 10W40 oils is pretty much and old wives tale caused by experience with SE and SF rated 10W40 oils of the 70's and 80's. The 10W40 does have a lot of viscosity improvers in it and the VI's of the day were very prone to shear down and/or cause ring belt deposits due to their poor quality. The viscosity improvers in any oil today are synthetic (whether it is synthetic oil or conventional the VI additives are synthetic) which are far far more resisitent to shear down and deposit formation. I wouldn't worry about using a 10W40 oil and Honda does recommend that viscosity range. Just keep in mind that the 10W40 oils available today are far far superior to the 10W40 oils of old that generated all the problems and negative test results that keep surfacing.
I suspect the older synthetic 10W40 oils performed better due to the fact that the VI's were synthetic in addition to the base oil. The synthetic VI's were available "back then" but were much more expensive and used only in fully synthetic products, not the conventional products. Today synthetic VI's are necessary for ANY oil to pass the API performance requirements for SM ratings.

You are bang on. Older 10W40 used much more polymers, where present day 10W40 synthetics do not. Polymer's were the main reason they could make a 10W40 from a straight 40W oil. This is not the case with todays synthetics. As Yamaha recomends their dino 20W40 for the FJR, this is part of the reason why.

Here was the old rule the farther apart the two numbers were, the more likely the viscosity of the oil would change over time (get thinner). Your 10w40 would change to a 10w30 (I am making this simple) and when that happens it tends to flash off faster as the engine gets warmer, loosing it's lubricating abilities. (It would not form a barrier between the moving parts).

This is still a concern with todays oils. If you ever get an oil analysis done, they will give you the viscosity of your used oil. If it remains close to 40W after your oil change, its a good oil in one part of the test.

 

[evil_henchman]

The viscosity improvers in any oil today are synthetic (whether it is synthetic oil or conventional the VI additives are synthetic) which are far far more resisitent to shear down and deposit formation.

Not to disagree or counter anything but that's why class II conventional oils are marketed as synthetic. So to answer the original question, Yes it's marketing hype. It's almost certainly the exact same oil as the other Mobil 1.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Polymer's were the main reason they could make a 10W40 from a straight 40W oil.

The viscosity improvers (long-chain polymers) inhibit the change in viscosity due to temperature -- regardless of where you start and which direction you go (hotter or colder).

As Yamaha recomends their dino 20W40 for the FJR, this is part of the reason why.

?, Yamaha reccos that in America (primarily/only?) because that's what the Cypress parts dept. has bottled for them (or, used to) -- in other markets it's usually, I think, 10/40.

Here was the old rule the farther apart the two numbers were, the more likely the viscosity of the oil would change over time (get thinner). Your 10w40 would change to a 10w30 (I am making this simple) and when that happens it tends to flash off faster as the engine gets warmer, loosing it's lubricating abilities. (It would not form a barrier between the moving parts).

That appears a little misleading to me in that it suggests thicker (higher viscosity) is better -- and, that's just not true. The 'ideal' oil would be one of constant viscosity (didn't change with temperature -- the 'ultimate multi-vis') and designed (viscosity-wise) for a certain (your) engine's tolerances.

This is still a concern with todays oils. If you ever get an oil analysis done, they will give you the viscosity of your used oil. If it remains close to 40W after your oil change, its a good oil in one part of the test.

Not necessarily, IMO. Yes, OA will give you a viscosity/ies of your oil and it really only would be relevent to a sample of the original oil (new) at those test temps. You may even find it thicker due to oxidation?

Whatever, 40 (no 'W', that denotes winter testing) is probably not the viscosity range you'd be looking for. The FJR ain't no 50 year old cruzer engine design..... :blink: