Are more expensive Motorcycle Helmets really any safer?

[LittleJon]

"At present the Foundation has not had the opportunity to test any of the flip up front type helmets for certification."

I find this statement hard to believe. If a safety foundation is established for the sole purpose of testing helmets, why would modular helmets not be tested? How long does a product need to be on the market for a safety foundation, established to test said products for safety, to get "the opportunity" to test them? Why would modular type helmets be so exclusively excluded from testing? Why wouldn't a manufacturer submit their modular style for SNELL testing along with their full face model?

Am I obsessing? Perhaps. I prefer a modular helmet, and I don't know that a SNELL safety rating is all that important to me. It just seems a little fishy to me...

 

[ionbeam]

"At present the Foundation has not had the opportunity to test any of the flip up front type helmets for certification."
I find this statement hard to believe...

In 2015 SNELL released standard M2015 which includes test standards for modular helmets. Perhaps they will now find the opportunity since they now have standards to test to.

 

[Fred W]

Snell doesn't test all helmets on the market. They only test the ones that are submitted (and paid for) by the manufacturers for testing.

One would have to think that any that are submitted, the design engineers have good reason to believe that they will pass the certification, probably because they designed to meet those standards, for better or for worse.

The idea that a modular can not pass their safety testing when an open face helmet can seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. I don't see how a pivoting chin bar on the shell of the helmet would compromise the styrofoam that provides the majority of the helmet's safety.

 

[El Toro]

Interesting stuff. I was just wondering if a $25,000 motorcycle is safer than a $15,000 one.

Well, you probably can't generalize, I'll bet that most of the time a $10K or more expensive motorcycle is probably safe than a $7K or cheaper motorcycle.

And as price goes up, you often get safety features that many argue are unnecessary. Tire Pressure Monitoring, rain mode traction control, better ABS, better suspension, etc are all at the high end, not at the low.

I honestly don't consider the price when I go helmet shopping. But I have friends who fit the cheap, self proclaimed smart, yankee trader model, and they spend weeks of effort trying to figure out whether the $89.99 helmet will be better than the $124.99 helmet. And then they pride themselves on their great decision, and talk about it to anyone and everyone who will listen, pontificating about how stupid other people are for not understanding the issues as well as they do, and not saving money, which after all, is the most important guiding principle in life.

Life's too short for this sort of anal-ysis.

Get something that fits, gives good air flow and low noise, and comes from a company with deep pockets so you can sue them for your long term care when it turns out that your accident doesn't match up with the protection provided by their helmet.

 

[LittleJon]

I'm not trying to be contrary, and I'm not trying to downplay the benefits of testing. But this is the requirement of a modular vs a regular full face, copied and pasted from the link above:

Modular helmets must meet all the same requirements as those equipped with integral chin bars with the additional requirement that the chin guard release mechanism must be sufficiently secure to prevent inadvertent opening in a crash impact.

I think I could have come up with that before 2015.

I was half joking when I said that these types of discussions make me anxious. It's a significant purchase from both a price and safety angle. I was leaning toward purchasing my next helmet online, without trying any on. I know this is a bad idea. But for me the alternative is going to be a decently long trip to a store where I can try on a good selection. Then after I try them on, I'll have to sit down and research the helmets that felt the best on my head.

Ok. Screw that. I'm going to do a search for a place that has a large selection of helmets in-house. I'm going to take a day off of work. I'm going to ride there, try on as many helmets as I can, and get the one that fits my needs the best.

Ride more, worry less, right?

Thanks folks, for helping me work through it.

 

[thompsonian]

Hmm....my Suomy wasn't on the list...suppose I ought to toss it in the trash.

I will admit that I am one that when I first got into riding, and starting on sportbikes, that I thought I had to have the Repli-racer helmets. If they were good enough for the guys going near 200, they were good enough for me. Now that I've been riding for a few more years and with a few more miles under my belt, I've learned that the fit is way more important than the finish. I still look for one of the major certifications when considering one, but won't be such a brand snob in the future.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

We joke about it, but as I referenced in another thread- I actually chose FJR, in part, because it's nimbleness, acceleration, and braking capabilities were safety features I need to help manage my risk profile riding daily in zombieland. I choose the helmets I choose because when I'm wearing a properly fitted Nolan, I forget I have a helmet on. No greater compliment. I had to go back in the house and get my helmet this morning. I was about to mount up and realized I'd forgotten the lid. As far as 8 years, I thought it was five. And as much as I ride, damn near all that's left intact by the time one of my primary's has seen 5 years is the shell.

 

[ionbeam]

As far as 8 years, I thought it was five.

SNELL says 5 years. One size fits all I guess. I'm sure helmet manufactures like that number

 

[Denver_FJR]

...Well, you probably can't generalize, I'll bet that most of the time a $10K or more expensive motorcycle is probably safe than a $7K or cheaper motorcycle.

...

Ha! No wonder Harley riders feel safe riding with only a beenie helmet and a leather vest, their bike has them covered. Always wondered what that aura was that appears around them, I just thought it was the glare from the chrome.

 

[Uncle Hud]

I'd like to generalize like this: All helmets with a DOT sticker meet or exceed US DOT testing standards. All helmets that have a Snell rating meet or exceed Snell testing standards. Almost everything else is personal opinion: quietness, fit, finish, closure/strap mechanism, paint/graphics, ad nauseum.

I wonder if Chinese manufacturers and retailers place DOT stickers on their helmets without actually having them tested.

 

[El Toro]

I'd like to generalize like this: All helmets with a DOT sticker meet or exceed US DOT testing standards. All helmets that have a Snell rating meet or exceed Snell testing standards. Almost everything else is personal opinion: quietness, fit, finish, closure/strap mechanism, paint/graphics, ad nauseum.
I wonder if Chinese manufacturers and retailers place DOT stickers on their helmets without actually having them tested.

I can't say that they do, but it is within character.

Back when I taught vehicle design in an aerospace curriculum, one of the issues that came to the surface was the problem of counterfeit fasteners. It is easy to put the head markings on a bolt. These distinguish one grade from another. It is harder and more expensive to actually make the bolt to the correct specifications.

My Dad, long dead now, used to consult in mechanical design optimization. He used to tell a story about a company where he'd been let loose to develop background, and he was in the Foundry. The fellow who was in charge of the Foundry didn't know him, but this was back in the olden days when we didn't worry so much about nut cases loose in our factory, or about industrial spies. They struck up a conversation.

My Dad asked about the recipe they used for ASTM No. 40 cast iron. The Foundryman said "Oh, we don't make it by the ASTM recipe. That would be too expensive." He had a cheaper approach.

One of my Dad's recommendations to the fellow who'd hired him was to build a tensile test specimin into each casting so that QC would be able to do nondestructive testing to evaluate any critical parts that would be used in their machines. This particular company did not sell to the public, but built specialty machines that were custom ordered for the textile industry.

To tell you how long ago this was, that was back in the day when textile processing was still a factor in the New England economy. Since then, it's moved to the South, and finally off shore and to Mexico.

As the old Norwegians would say "det er lenge siden". That's like auld lang syne ... it has been long since, in English.

Sigh....

The point is that everything is not always what it seems. From counterfeit fasteners and wrong recipe cast iron olden days, to mislabeling of safety components in the modern era.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

I bought my helmet based on comfort; how it fit, how quiet it was, the way bluetooth integrated into the helmet, and ease of use. Based on all of that I ended up with a Schuberth. Will it protect me any better than a $125 full face helmet? No, but I knew that going in.

Actually, I could answer that question with a maybe; I chose the screaming yellow colored one for the added conspicuous visibility. I have been told many times that people see me from WAY off, which is a good thing to me and may in fact help protect me from being ran into.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

The idea that a modular can not pass their safety testing when an open face helmet can seems a bit counter-intuitive to me. I don't see how a pivoting chin bar on the shell of the helmet would compromise the styrofoam that provides the majority of the helmet's safety.

My understanding is that the location on the side of the helmet where the hinge is located has less padding because the hinge takes up space. You would have to bulge the helmet at the hinge location to keep the same amount of protection, and since that would look bad, nobody does. After the talk, I took a good look at my C3Pro and it does indeed have reduced padding where the hinge is located (as does my older Multitech).

Frankly, I am surprised that any open face would pass.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

I'd like to generalize like this: All helmets with a DOT sticker meet or exceed US DOT testing standards. All helmets that have a Snell rating meet or exceed Snell testing standards. Almost everything else is personal opinion: quietness, fit, finish, closure/strap mechanism, paint/graphics, ad nauseum.
I wonder if Chinese manufacturers and retailers place DOT stickers on their helmets without actually having them tested.

If the EPA can't be bothered to actually test cars for emissions, do you think the DOT actually tests helmets? I am sure it is up to the helmet manufacturers to self certify. I agree with El Toro - Caveat Emptor.

 

[ionbeam]

Each helmet style has a standard for that style. Every style of helmet has specific test specifications, the tests are run to see that the helmets meets the spec with the assumption that the spec defines an envelope of 'safe'. Each style may come in different sizes and sometimes different head shapes and there are a standard specifications for each of those situations.

Edit to add: Most companies of any type are not allowed to self certify unless they let a certification agency like SNELL visit their site and verify that the company is testing to SNELL specifications exactly.

 

[Fred W]

I think some people are missing a major point about these "standards" and the helmet manufacturers:

A helmet manufacturer could make his helmet any way he wants. He could make it soft and comfy, or he can make it firm and resilient. Basically, he can and will make his helmet in whatever way it will sell the best and put the most cash in his pocket.

When an organization like Snell Foundation comes along, and claims to know what is best for head protection from a helmet (even though that we now know that they have been very far off the mark for a large portion of their existence), and furthermore gets various racing organizations to insist on their certification for all helmets used in their racing series, that puts a huge financial bluebird in the pocket of any manufacturer who will design their helmet to meet those standards, whether they are the best standards or not. If you were Mr Shoei or Mr Arai, what would you do?

 

[Rain Dancer]

Not all Shoei helmets are Snell certified. And MOST of the cost of a helmet is for lawyers, I actually was told that by a lawyer that works in the industry. Snell originally was for auto racing helmets, and some of the tests were testing for multiple hits such as you would get in a rollover with your head hitting the roll bar. As to which certification is best, guess it depends on what you plan on doing. I remember hearing a Bell designer had said "tells us what kind of accident you will have, and we will design a helmet for it". Relating to what El Toro said; my wife is an engineer, and in dealing with China, if they don't have someone there watching production all the time, quality will slip in MANY cases. I prefer a helmet that I think (hope) the manufacturer is worried about reputation. We all have our level of risk we accept (we ride!) I won't wear a flip helmet, and the one accident I had I actually cracked the chin bar. T-boned a van at 55mph. While I don't know if a modular would have failed, I personally won't risk it. After the concussion I had (still have) I have become very interested in the safety aspects of helmets. If I can ever ride again, I may look at a D6. Meets euro and dot standards, and has advances to limit concussions. Having crash tested many helmets on the track (bike and auto) I do lean towards high end helmets. The unfortunate thing is, we don't know if we made the right choice until we test it. Here's to hoping no one has to be that tester!

BTW...Snell was around before Shoei and Arai were even known to the US populace.

 

[Happytrails63]

All those charts and graphs confused me....

I've bought less expensive (cheapo) helmets in the past just in case someone wanted to be a co-pilot. I'd much rather wear a nice premium helmet for comfort, quiet and ergonomics. I have an RX-Q that i loved but I seldom wear it because I love the Neotec so much more. As long as I wear one I am thinking. And bee's really love the hi-vis paint. Can't say I like the bee's... being alergic to em.

 

[Bugnatr]

I bought my helmet based on comfort; how it fit, how quiet it was, the way bluetooth integrated into the helmet, and ease of use. Based on all of that I ended up with a Schuberth. Will it protect me any better than a $125 full face helmet? No, but I knew that going in.

It's way better for your ears than a 125.00 helmet.

Schuberth still makes the quietest helmet out there. And yes, I have crash tested a Schuberth modular helmet....passed with flying colors.

Any real helmet is better than none on a bike or a horse.

 

[Uncle Hud]