Audiovox CCS100 install on 2006 FJR1300AE

[FJRocket]

As of this edit, my CCS-100 is still in the "chin" location and is NOT fried. However, it probably will burn out or fail sooner than anyone would want. So, although this relocation of the Audiovox servo to the chin of the fairing, there is a BETTER place to put the servo on ANY '06 (or older?) FJR. Put the servo under the T-bar at the front of the frame. Right on top of the engine. Much better environment there, and the servo CAN be nestled in there without relocating the cables. The tough part is that you have to temporarily remove the big water pipe that is in the way. Still, this is a better mounting idea, and probably will become the standard for those 2nd generation FJR owners that don't want the servo under their seat. So again, SKIP the chin idea and check this out:

Smitty's 2006 FJR1300AE CCS-100 install

Now, back to the original thread:

Thanks again to SkooterG for sharing his Audiovox location.

Pics are posted down in the 5th post on this thread.

This farkle is pirated from someone else's idea, so I won't take credit (or blame) for it. You may not like this install idea at all, but it will work (in theory) for any year FJR. I think it's a great concept for the AE because you don't have to take out the tool/computer tray and relocate the three large modules under the seat, IF you want to locate the servo in that location.

Another idea that Smitty141 is contemplating is moving the servo to under the tank, over the head, just behind the frame & steering head. We haven't gotten to that install yet, but it MIGHT be possible. Rough measurements suggest that the servo will fit under the T-bar on '06's, but you would have to relocate the two throttle cables. It would probably block all the airflow into the underside of the gas tank. We'll see if it works. Again, on the AE, getting the servo anywhere else but under the seat is ideal.

AnotherCCS-100 install method is to hang the servo out in the open, on the frame under a side bag. This install works great. Cosmetically, I don't like it, but functionally, it's perfectly fine.

Now, for the "Chin" idea:

Skooter opened the tupperware on his replacement FJR to find that the previous owner/mechanic had installed the Audiovox CCS100 servo down at the very bottom of the engine cowling/fairing, below the radiator. Just under that triangular panel. When I saw the pic Skooterg posted, I was just amazed at the ingenuity!

The down side to putting the servo in this location is that there are 4 extremely hot exhaust pipes very close to the servo. Some serious heat shielding is required, and the electronics and mechanism of the servo may get cooked. The servo may not be able to stand the heat. I'm willing to take the risk to get it working and more importantly to see for how long.

I've already relocated my servo to the "Chin" location, and it makes the install (for the AE, anyway) a whole lot easier. I ran the cable, wires and vacuum hose up the left side, just under the radiator hose, and into the top of the engine compartment. There, the wiring harness goes to the previously posted locations. No change there. The servo/throttle cable hooks up the same, no change there. The only thing I did differently was put the AUX can and check valve in that open area (found on all '06's, but not previous models) up front under the gas tank.

The '06 has a LOT of room up over the head, certainly enough for a pop can sized aux vacuum cannister. The down side to this is that if you block the airflow into/through this area, that wonderful LACK OF HEAT that the '06's enjoy may not be so...hot. IOW, put an aux can (or servo) in there, and the bike may get the rider a lot hotter, ala the 1st generation bikes. I've just about blocked one side (openings into the compartment around the steering stem area) with the aux can. Once I test ride, I'll determine whether or not to put the aux can down in the chin are with the servo. That would be easy enough, I just thought I'd put it up top and see what happens.

I know this post sucks without pics, and they are coming. I'm at work, and just got excited about sharing the info. Hopefully, I'll complete the install tonight, test ride tomorrow and also add a few pics of the install.

The servo on my '04 was just held in place by the seat, as was the case on my '06 before this change. For the move to the chin, I made a simple bracket that is attached to the bracket that comes with the CCS-100. It's just a strip of aluminum that screws down to the two lower screws of the triangular panel. One screw is hidden inside the right side, and the other is the external screw you see easily when taking off the panel. BTW, for this install, I did NOT remove the side fairing, I was able to unscrew the single screw under the chin and then unscrew the triangular panel 4 screw and remove it completely. Easy!

Just like the mystery mechanic that installed the Audiovox servo in Skooter's replacement FJR, I safety wired heat shield material around the servo. I used Kool Mat and some other heat shielding that I have for my airplane project. I took a propane torch and tested this stuff, and at least in the short haul, it will keep a lot of the heat away from the servo. Heck, these things are made to work in the engine compartment of a car, so I would think that they are a LITTLE heat resistant.

BTW, the servo in this location is really out in the elements. The area behind is open (pipes side) and water can get in there. I used some RTV to seal the wires and plug where they go into the servo. Some dielectric grease on the plug and pins might be a good idea regardless of where you install the servo.

I've very happy to have my AE computer modules in the stock location. That's really the main benefit to me of this install. I just hope the servo can take the heat!

More information in the posts below!

 

[radman]

Yeah, heat would be my big concern. Don't know how long Skoots was in there, but being that the servo has a plastic case, any melting would be immediately evident. Anyone who has done a dyno blast or high speed TBS is familiar with the beautiful orange glow the pipes give off-of course this is with the bike stationary, but still.........

 

[ionbeam]

heat would be my big concern

I had also expressed my concern over heat in the previous thread. I'm not going to tell anyone that the servo will fail but I can tell you with certainty that it will really increase the chances of failure.
Besides the plastic case the unit has a diaphragm that may loose some resiliency if not outright fail. Most of all is the control circuit -- semi-conductors (ICs) hate heat. If ICs experience heat related failure they are dead, toast, never to rise from the grave again. Many of the industry standard ceramic capacitors become at risk beginning around 180 degrees, some higher performance capacitors may take up to ~220 degrees. The capacitor failure mode is almost always is to make a short. FWIW, when I need to do quick reliability and quality studies of circuits the first place I go is 'burn-in' where I use heat to accelerate circuit failures.

But for the heat that is a neat install location!

 

[FJRocket]

Thanks Rad and Ion. You guys hit the nails on the head, and certainly your concerns are very valid and may in the long run (or short run?) make this a baaaad idea. I'll try to toast mine to see what happens. I'm willing to risk $80 for the group. It's worth that much to leave the computers in place.

Yeah, I wonder how long Skooter's had been in service? I think he reported that his 2nd 2004 ABS had only 6K on it, but who knows how long the CCS-100 was actually working... from day 1 or for 1 day?

I'm putting two different heat shield materials there to block the heat. I've even contemplated putting a cooling blast tube to the front side of the unit. Also thought about just drilling a couple holes in the triangular panel to let some cool air (and unfortunately splooge) in there. Still, gonna try it with just the heat shielding and see if the silicon and plastic bits maintain their composure. Fingers crossed.

 

[FJRocket]

All right, here's a few pics and some more explanation. Again, note that this may end up being a piss poor idea because the CCS-100 cruise control servo may get cooked. Time will tell, but I have it in place and working.

I unscrewed the single crew under the bottom of the chin, removed the two screws in the face, removed the two screws from the inside of the triangular panel, then removed it and set it aside. This is where the servo goes:

I wrapped the servo in a layer of self adhesive high heat barrier material with a thick aluminized face and then safety wired it around the servo. I poked a hole in it for the vac hose, and I fashioned a bracket that screws down with the triangular panel. I put the servo in it's place with the cable, wires and vac hose running up just inside the left front cowl leading edge.

A better view of the test bracket:

The wires, servo cable and vac hose go up into the engine compartment (and on the AE, it IS compartmentalized) just under the radiator hose:

I hooked up 2 vac lines ( 1 & 4), and put a check valve in line, then T'd an Auxiliary cannister in a line to the servo. The Aux Can fit up under the T-bar across the from on top of the engine:

What doesn't show is that I made a second layer of heat barrier the shape of the triangular panel. Before screwing the panel, I put this second layer of barrier under the servo and wrapped it up, somewhat wedged into the cowling. It goes about 4 or 5 inches above the servo. Regrettably, the servo's heat barriers are only about 1/2 inch from the exhaust pipes. After the first test ride (with fire extinguisher on board), I'll be taking a good hard look at the barrier surface to see how cooked it gets. Wish I had one of those laser surface temperature gizmos. I'd like to see how hot the outer barrier gets next to the pipes!

This was a pretty easy thing to install, especially since I had the CCS-100 working already. All I did was swap the servo to the chin location to get it out from under the seat. Time will tell if the unit can withstand the heat.

I'll report back after more testing.

 

[BrunDog]

Just say no. It doesn't matter how much convective cooling takes place in that spot. The radiative heat from those pipes will make that unit fail, me thinks. Although I imagine the servo was designed for under hood car applications, this location seems too extreme for it.

Hey, I'm down with the experiment, good on ya for trying it for our benefit. Good luck and have fun!! And keep the posts flowing, with piccies please!

-BD

 

[Toecutter]

What about a couple of holes in the cover to let some cooler air across that servo? Not too big though, as I seem to recall another situation where that made the motor run hotter by robbing air from the radiator.

 

[FJRocket]

What about a couple of holes in the cover to let some cooler air across that servo? Not too big though, as I seem to recall another situation where that made the motor run hotter by robbing air from the radiator.

I was thinking about that pretty seriously. First, I'm going to test it with the stock panel. If I get nervous, or toast the thing pretty quick, I may make an aluminum "triangular panel" and put a couple blast holes in it. I don't think even 4 small holes (2 above, 2 below), say 1/2 or even 3/4 in dia would rob the radiator of that much air. But you never know, it could change the flow dramatically and over heat the bike. Which is why I'm going with stock, first. And like BD says, the radiant heat on the back side of the servo could still cook it anyway.

Another thing I might consider is wrapping the pipes with that 2K degree header barrier stuff. I think that would make the exterior more tolerable. Again, going to try it with just the thermal stuff I already have in place and see how it goes. I don't want to do any more than necessary. Heck, I know it worked under the seat for about 9K miles, so I can always revert back.

Wish me luck... Going to ride the piss out of the bike later today and see what happens.

 

[radman]

Note that Skoots install had the servo higher up-as the fairing design, tapering forward near the top, moved the servo away from the pipes, as well as put it more into what airflow is available through the radiator.

 

[FJRocket]

Note that Skoots install had the servo higher up-as the fairing design, tapering forward near the top, moved the servo away from the pipes, as well as put it more into what airflow is available through the radiator.

On a first generation bike, perhaps it would indeed be better to orient the servo like SkooterG's.

Other considerations could be that the high mounted servo is only close to 1 or 2 pipes, but it's also in a hotter section of the pipe. Again, wish I had a laser thermometer to see how much difference there might be top to bottom on the exhaust pipes.

The '06 has a deeper curve to the triangular panel due to the curved radiator. I concluded that Skooter's orientation wasn't going to work as well on my bike, and would actually put the servo closer to the pipes.

So there is actually LESS room to put the servo in the chin on an '06. But then, on any bike other than the AE, why put it there at all, unless you want/need the under seat storage. I guess that is a pretty good reason, though.

Keep the ideas coming!

 

[ionbeam]

I might consider is wrapping the pipes with that 2K degree header barrier stuff

General header wrap works pretty good, some metalized types provide really great insulation. Based on the results I've seen in my friends cars it would be a toss-up to see if heat would kill the servo quicker than the header wrap would kill your header pipes I'd go with the cheaper risk

 

[Wolfhound]

Looks like it might fit under the horn, vertically, nicely....possibly...not sure of dimensions of CC...

 

[Scarbutt]

Yet another option for Audiovox Cruise Control location.



Mine is on an 04 model. May or may not fit on an 06. But it is tucked awar in such a manner that it looks like a factory install.

John

 

[FJRocket]

So far, so good.

I rode today and tried to cook the servo. HIGH rpm @ low speeds, stop and go, etc.. Regrettably (for many reasons) it was only 40 degrees here, so it wasn't going to be ambiently as hot as it will get in the summer.

The radiant heat hasn't fried the servo yet, but I could smell the heat working on the outer heat barrier. I'm going to ride again tomorrow and see if it's just not "new" smell, kind of breaking in. If it isn't, and the "burnt" smell continues, I'll reconfigure, replace or remove the outer barrier.

 

[FJRocket]

Rode again today. High RPM, low speed, in town, etc., trying to keep the temps up and the pipes very hot. Smell is all but gone and the thermal barriers and servo are still intact.

It's going to take a lot more riding to check the long term success of this install. Wish it was about 90 degrees out so that I could REALLY get it hot... although I don't think that the ambient temp makes all that much difference in the small space between the servo and the exhaust pipes.

I'm claiming short term success... but that may be all I get. At least I feel confident that the unit isn't going to melt down and cause a fire.

Let's see how it goes over a couple thousand miles.... :blink: :huh: :lol:

 

[v65]

Was thinking about running this by some of the engineers on campus. They worked on the space shuttle tiles, so they know a bit about heat dissipation. Anybody have an idea of what the header temp is in the region FJRocket is talking about? I can make a number up, but within 50 degrees F would be nice.

 

[radman]

400-500

 

[jestal]

Was thinking about running this by some of the engineers on campus. They worked on the space shuttle tiles, so they know a bit about heat dissipation. Anybody have an idea of what the header temp is in the region FJRocket is talking about? I can make a number up, but within 50 degrees F would be nice.

That is going to depend a lot on the load on the engine. Rad is right at about 400-500....but I would add that that is probably at light to moderate loads on the engine. Running the motor hard and/or high speed riding could easily run the exhaust pipe temps up to 800 or a little better. You would see around 1100-1200 degrees F exhaust temperature at the exit of the exhaust port so the pipe surface could be that hot and will cool somewhat the further down on the pipe you measure. It is not uncommon at all for header pipes to glow red and even white hot under continous load. Not very likely to be able to load an FJR that hard for that long but you get the idea. Fortunately, the more load on the motor the faster and faster the bike will be going and the more cooling air that will be flowing over the pipes. But, that is not exactly a high flow area being blocked by the fairing panel(s). I would hazard a guess that the pipes in that area are going to be running at least 400-500 F in normal riding and would go much much hotter in spirited riding conditions very easily.

I would bet that the cruise servo is going to have a very short life located there being baked by the exhaust pipes. Since there is very little air flow over the unit in that spot and the air volume inside the cruise canister is stagnant and not moving the insulation blanket is just lengthenging the agony. Same sort of idea that makes the turkey bake in the oven no matter how much you would insulate it. The insulation might slow down the rate it warms up at but eventually it will heat up and cook regardless.

One thing that is very effective in preventing heat damage to a component like that is a metal barrier or heat shield. A heat shield with an air gap on both sides is a very effective means of reducing the radiant transfer. A simple shield could be fashioned out of thin aluminum sheet and hose clamped to the exhaust pipes in the area of the cruise servo by bending a couple of standoffs in the aluminum and attaching with hose clamps around the pipe. Lots of automotive applications use similar heat shields on the exhaust manifolds and exhaust pipes to reduce heat transfer locally. The heat shields can reduce temperatures on adjacent surfaces by hundreds of degrees F easily.

 

[v65]

Sounds like my made up numbers were close to yours. I was thinking about the same sort of barrier as Jestal, but maybe some sort of high-tech material since that is what my neighbors specialize in.