Auxiliary/Alternative Heat?

[mdisher]

I'm pretty sure there are some experts here, so I'm tossing this out here for ideas and info.

We have a old farm house, circa 1850's. It's been updated and currently has a relatively new and relatively efficient oil burning funace for the size of the house. Though the damn thing has a 1.gal/hour nozzle as that's what it takes to heat this friggin place. That means on an average day when the furnace is on about 20-30 mins of every hour (or worse becuase we need windows), we're burning about 10 gallons a day on cold days. That's current $40 a day.

When we purchased this house 10 years ago the cost of oil then was $.68 a gallon. It's gone up steadily since and is currently at $4.25/gallon.

So we're looking at alternatives or supplimental heat.

I'm not a big fan of wood burners, mostly because the tend to make one room in the house too hot and the rest of the house is cold. You also spend an in-ordinate amount of time buying or cutting firewood. Which if you figure in labor rates, etc, etc. Doesn't make the attractive to me at all..

I'm looking for input/guidance on a wood/pellet burner that would attach to my current furnace/ductwork and use it for heat distribution.

That seems like something I'd be interested in vs a stand-alone stove.

We do have a fireplace now, and a stand alone stove that is NOT hooked up. The chimney needs redone or sleeved first. It's currently only decorative, but could be made to work if need be.

Tips, pointers, advice?

 

[Grumpy]

I burn wood in a free standing stove when it gets cold to suppliment the gas furnace. The single biggest help to try and even out the heating is to run the furnace fan on the lowest setting.......may not be possible if the furnace is old. I'm staying with wood as the price of corn is stupidly high. Hope this helps? Of course adding insulation is probably your next step followed by windows........if you're handy, you can likly do the windows yourself, I did. I also charged them at Home Depot and didn't pay for them for a year.

 

[squeezer]

I think you called it right on the free standing wood stove. In our case, we have one big family room that gets used a lot and has its own thermostat. The wood stove makes sense for that kind of application. Not so much sense any other way. And we typically use it only on weekends.

I feel for you on the oil. That's just gotten ugly.

 

[mdisher]

Windows: The biggest problem with our house is that there are 23 of them! and since this house is from the 1850's everything is horribly crooked these days and they are no where near standard sizes so they'd have to be ordered form somewhere. There isn't a straight wall or 90 angle in this house anywhere. I could probably do it, but I really wouldn't enjoy it.

We do 'insulate them' in the winter with plastic and that does help. It is something we'll do someday...

We've put replacement windows in prior homes and have never experienced the 'savings' that are claimed with replacement windows. So I'm a tad skeptical at dropping $20k plus at this point to get them changed out.

I agree with the corn, I'm looking at something that will burn pellets/wood, etc. So far it looks like it would cut my raw heating costs in half...

Last year we burned 750 gallons at $2.35 to $3.50 per gallon. It appears that we'd use about 7 tons of pellets at $200 a ton would be about half the cost of what we expect. But you then have to deal with moving 7 tons of pellets around over a 4 month period. (#$%@$) I already loath filling the damn water softner, and that's only 4 - 40lb bags a month, not 350 40lb bags in 4 months.

My back hurts thinking about that.

(Yeah I'm whining).

 

[TriggerT]

I have 2 wood burning stoves, both with fans on them. You are correct that part of my house get hotter than others, but luckily there are 3 thermostats. Since I have a boiler, I run the ceiling fans, and sometimes a box fan on low to help circulate the heat. Biggest problem for me is the dust. It can get pretty bad. I have a large supply of Oak firewood that I would have to clean up anyway, so burning it heats the house, and is a good way to dispose of it. I usually don't turn on the boiler in the house until Jan of Feb, but with two little kids in the house now, that will probably have to change some. I also have some electric radiator style space heaters for in the kids rooms, for when it gets really cold. The electric bill goes up, but it isn't even close to what I have seen my gas bill go up to when I just run the boiler.

 

[2wheelingdawg]

my folks in WV use a wood burning stove. It is covered with stone tiles. Really holds the heat in even after the fire goes out. That is their main heat source for the entire house. Only use gas when then temp doesn't call for a fire. But then they have to buy the wood by the dump truck load.

 

[rushes]

I burn wood in a free standing stove. And use the electric radiators in the back rooms. Close off all rooms and closets not used.

But I cut my own. If I had to buy, I might go with pellets just because it would require less attention and probably is a lot cleaner.

 

[spklbuk]

+1 on what rushes said.

We haven't burned but 1000 gal of oil in the 20 years we've lived in our 1920s farm shack albiet a small shack. We have to add kerosene to the tank every 2 or 3 years to just be sure the damn stuff will still burn.

Except for the dust, wood seems to be the way to go...it will warm several times before you actually burn it...how can you go wrong!

 

[jekirby]

I grew up in a house that had oil heat, but never remember using it, in fact dad had to have it pumped out once. We heated with wood. Mom would wake up at 5 and restart the fire and keep it going through out the day-she was a stay at home mom. I am used to sleeping when it is cool and we used fans to circulate the heat thru the house. I would be heating my house with nothing but wood now, but the wife will demand a divorce if I put in a wood stove.

 

[twowheelnut]

Tips, pointers, advice?

Yep. Invite SkooperG to live with you. With all of his bullshitting, the hot air will heat the entire house. Added benefit: His Dumbo-sized ears will fan the hot air around. All ya need to do is feed the bastidge.

BTW, any chance on converting to NG? That's what I did before leaving CT, 12 years ago. Took the old oil burner out and converted the boiler to accept a gas burner. My ex-FIL, who was in the home heating oil business helped me do the work (ok, it was more like he worked while I supervised and supplied the beer).

IIRC, it only cost about a grand at the time.

I did run a wood burning stove in tandem, but as trigger said, the dust and dirt was oppressive.

 

[OhioFJR1300]

I'll throw my 2 cents in here. I have a large (2500 sg.ft) older (30 yrs) home that has electric heat. It has an electric furnace. I can not get natural gas where I am. I've been in the HVAC trade for 30 plus years and I do not like oil heat, and propane is getting costly now too. I have a fireplace insert/cast iron stove and burned wood for a number of years. Lots of work, lots of ashes and a fair amount of heat. I would burn 2- 3 cords of wood a winter at $180.00 to 250.00 a cord. Stack wood, haul wood, haul ashes. It got to be too much work so I converted my stove to burn anthacite coal. I get it delivered for $120-180 a ton. 3 tons lasted me 2 years. Easier to carry, don't have to stack it, less ash to remove, and my house is HOT!! now. On 40 degree days I have to open the windows. My electric bill is about 40% lower. I looked at the outside furnace/ boilers, but most are for wood or corn and I do not want to pay for that fuel. I suggest that you look into a coal burning add on for you furnace or put a coal burner in that fire place and deal with that room being hot and the rest of the house being warm. You will save a bunch of money in the long run. I see you are in Ohio. Me too. You can get coal delivered, you will have to look around to find it tho. Drop me a message and I'd be glad to offer my advise.

 

[mdisher]

Tips, pointers, advice?

BTW, any chance on converting to NG? That's what I did before leaving CT, 12 years ago. Took the old oil burner out and converted the boiler to accept a gas burner. My ex-FIL, who was in the home heating oil business helped me do the work (ok, it was more like he worked while I supervised and supplied the beer).

No chance of NG, while I'm not really in the sticks, I'm in the sticks, outside of city limits (which is good), but no water/gas/sewer at this time.

Our house is cold upstairs now, I can't imagine what it would be like trying to use an insert or stove. Well actually I can, the fireplace had an insert when we moved in. We used it about 10 times then the fan bit it. When I pulled it out to fix/replace, that's when we found out the chimney was all jacked up and the flue pipe hadn't been connected in ages.

We have a really nice free standing stove sitting in the fireplace now, but it's not hooked up. It's all decorative and ****. (was a freebie and needs to be pulled apart and all the seals between the iron peaces replaced).

At a minimum I could do that.

I *think* we're leaning toward a pellet furnace but damn that's a lot of pellets to mess with. I may be able to use the old coal shoot though so I can store it outside and fill it from outside with some creative sheet metal to the hopper.

We're going to check out a few options next weekend.

-MD

 

[Grumpy]

Tips, pointers, advice?

BTW, any chance on converting to NG? That's what I did before leaving CT, 12 years ago. Took the old oil burner out and converted the boiler to accept a gas burner. My ex-FIL, who was in the home heating oil business helped me do the work (ok, it was more like he worked while I supervised and supplied the beer).

No chance of NG, while I'm not really in the sticks, I'm in the sticks, outside of city limits (which is good), but no water/gas/sewer at this time.

Our house is cold upstairs now, I can't imagine what it would be like trying to use an insert or stove. Well actually I can, the fireplace had an insert when we moved in. We used it about 10 times then the fan bit it. When I pulled it out to fix/replace, that's when we found out the chimney was all jacked up and the flue pipe hadn't been connected in ages.

We have a really nice free standing stove sitting in the fireplace now, but it's not hooked up. It's all decorative and ****. (was a freebie and needs to be pulled apart and all the seals between the iron peaces replaced).

At a minimum I could do that.

I *think* we're leaning toward a pellet furnace but damn that's a lot of pellets to mess with. I may be able to use the old coal shoot though so I can store it outside and fill it from outside with some creative sheet metal to the hopper.

We're going to check out a few options next weekend.

-MD

If coal is an option, I'd go that route...........lots of heat for only a little work.

 

[Geezer]

I have an 1835 farm house that I heated with a coal stove the first winter I lived in it. Coal is about the same amount of work as pellets but probably cost less at today's prices. Coal is dirty and over time the walls in the room where the stove was got coated with black which had to be washed off. coal requires a real chimney, but it does not need to be cleaned every month like the chimney for a wood stove needs. I rent that farmhouse out now and my tenants use a combination of woodstove, non-vented propane fireplace, and the oil fire boiler.

The log cabin I now live in has an oil fired boiler and I am going through the same decision process you are.

Pellets are the most convenient. A pellet stove doesn't require a real chimney, just a vent through the wall. Pellets are clean, come in 50 pound bags that are easy to handle, and you can get a pellet stove with a big hopper so you only need to fill it once a day even on the coldest days. The down side is that it must have electricity to run, so it could be a problem if you live in an area that is prone to power outages. I would expect the cost of pellets to increase over time as demand increases.

As you said, wood is a lot of work. I have neighbors who used to cut and split firewood to sell so they can pay for oil to heat their houses before oil got so pricey. It is so convenient to just turn up the thermostat rather than try to regulate your heat with a wood stove. The popular thing around here the past few years is a free standing wood fired boiler. They go out in the yard and are self contained with firebox, heat exchanger, pump, and chimney all in one box. It sort of looks like a small garden shed. You put them near the house and run a pair of well insulated water lines into the house underground. Then you can connect it to your existing boiler if you have one, or add some radiators with fans in them to distribute the heat. Most people around here have oil fired boilers and hot water heat so they typically hook the wood burners into the same system. All the mess of firewood and ashes stays outside. You can safely burn whatever wood you have, like pine and construction scraps, but they are not recommended if you have close neighbors downwind because the chimney is not very tall.

Practical matters aside, my wife wants a fireplace so she can watch the fire. In the interest of domestic tranquility I am looking at the tukilivi style wood burning fireplaces. They consist of a large mass of masonry and have a firebox where you light a good hot fire like in a fireplace to heat up the masonry. The masonry stays warm all day and heats the room. It is not as hot as a metal stove so you are less likely to overheat the room. I can't say first hand how well these things work, but it's probably what I'll install this summer.

 

[sullivan]

Fuel companies are offering to lock in winter rates for oil at $4.98 as of the other day, here in southern Maine. Looks like I'll be adding more insulation in the attic.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I Lots of work, lots of ashes and a fair amount of heat. I would burn 2- 3 cords of wood a winter at $180.00 to 250.00 a cord.

Dude!!!! If yer payin that much per cord, well ****, i'll load up a **** ton of that stuff, drive it down to ya and sell it for half the price, and still be money ahead. $45.00 to $60.00 all day long up here. Fella at work has around 40 cords ready to go at $35.00 right now. All mixed hardwood too.

Coal? that **** is just plain evil :bad: Stinks like hell and leaves all that sooty **** all over your cars and yard.

:jester:

 

[mdisher]

I Lots of work, lots of ashes and a fair amount of heat. I would burn 2- 3 cords of wood a winter at $180.00 to 250.00 a cord.

Dude!!!! If yer payin that much per cord, well ****, i'll load up a **** ton of that stuff, drive it down to ya and sell it for half the price, and still be money ahead. $45.00 to $60.00 all day long up here. Fella at work has around 40 cords ready to go at $35.00 right now. All mixed hardwood too.

Coal? that **** is just plain evil :bad: Stinks like hell and leaves all that sooty **** all over your cars and yard.

:jester:

It's $160 to $200 a cord here too. I haven't bought wood in 10+ years. We bought a couple cords 10 years ago just for the fire place, if I recall it was $120 back then.

$60 is a steal, I couldn't cut it off my own property and haul it home for that.

 

[Bounce]

Had a friend in the Seattle area (Ron Smith, RIP) who did a pellet stove in his garage. He really loved that thing!

 

[TriggerT]

Are the prices you are talking about for a true cord, or a face cord?