Beamer Reamer and Mrs. hit a forest rat

[Patriot]

if it had not been for all of the training that I went through in the Navy

Knowledge Integrity Excellence

sounds about right, doesn't it ???

go Navy

and a big, monumental "BRAVO ZULU"

and same to one and all involved

:yahoo:

 

[Beamer Reamer]

1. Injury count: Post #1 in this topic

2. Heroism and Group Riding: Post #23 in this topic

3. The deer strike story: Post #36 in this topic

4. Gear review: Post #61 in this topic

5. Insurance: Post #83 in this topic

Gear and Stuff

Well, it is time to start easing this post into retirement. Like fish, a good topic only has so long before it gets to be a nuisance. I think what is left to talk about is gear, and well, there isn't much to chat about. It wasn't your normal high side/low side kind of wreck. No sliding down the asphalt, no dramatic impact to the helmet, just your ordinary run over a deer, down a cliff, land in the lake kind of thing. But there are a few take a ways and points to share.

Colleen and I both wore complete coverage of what I would call mid quality gear. Your typical Cortech, Tourmaster, Joe Rocket $200/a piece kind of thing. Foam armor in most places, some hard plastics in places, back pads of foam, etc. Tops were zipped to the bottoms, gloves were on, helmets tight. I listed the gist of the injuries earlier and the only thing to add were a few puncture wounds from branches while cruising down the hill and two skinned knuckles from somewhere - hardly anything to speak of. The pants never ripped at the punctures, just neat little holes.

To do different?

1) I am thinking of back boards. I received 7 busted ribs in the back and a burst vertebrae. I had a back pad, had to have helped, but i think something stand alone and much stouter is in the offing. AuburnFJR has something like this and I will let him describe. Backs are fragile and protect a few of our most important parts such as the spinal cord and a few favorite organs. Having something with a harder structure to spread out a blow - seems smart and I will now start researching exhaustively on this topic.

2) Clothing with padding should probably look more like clothing with armor. Padded armor seems smart. All clothes seem to have something in it thus easy for us to check the box. I think armor in clothing that allows good positioning would be a wise consideration.

3) Nothing to do with clothes, I think a hard look at deer spooking technology is a must. Deer are one of the biggest threats to the motorcycle community because their ubiquitous and because they act randomly most of the time. I have heard of deer sirens that are completely ignored and I have heard of ones that supposedly send everything in the county off to their in-laws for the day. I have little faith of the sirens that work on wind speed, but for research project #2, I will look into the electronic jobs. Seems like a hard core, multi-bike study is in order.

Musing: Clothing is a hard discussion. One end of the spectrum is the couple in jeans, sleeveless shirts, and skull helmets. The other end is the couple in full Aerostich's or Cycle Port quality gear. The difference in between is measurable is both terms of safety and budget. Some just can't afford the bike and the best clothes available. Just a fact. That is why there is such a wide spectrum of clothing. My thought, buy the very best you can afford and think of safety first, then looks. (Looks are important, no doubt). The miles you rack up probably plays a part in this decision as well.

Not sure what I will do yet. By the time I replace my bike, farkle to my NEEDS (wants), and then buy all the replacement clothing we will need, I will be tapped pretty good. Hopefully some good deals on farkles come along on the forum classified soon.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Well, it is time to start easing this post into retirement.

David, I hope you don't ease this thread into retirement too soon because you are providing some great insight and recommendations.

I wish someone had an answer for deer (a year round hunting season and bounty until 90 percent of today's population is gone would be a start), I had deer whistles on my bike for years and found when I approached a deer on the road or shoulder it would:

1. Stare at me,

2. Totally ignore me,

3. Run away from me, or

4. Run at me.

So much for whistles, maybe they help a little but I didn't replace them when I replaced the bike.

Riding gear is easier in concept, buy whatever you think is best and write the cost off over the next 5-10 years. Good stuff lasts a long time and is probably cheaper in the long run, not to mention the obvious benefits of body protection and being able to spend more time riding instead of being home enduring a slow healing process. If you feel you can't afford the best riding gear, then reconsider if you can afford the motorcycle you want to be riding.

David, heal fast, and stay current with your updates...and don't forget about Watson Lake!

 

[MEM]

2) Clothing with padding should probably look more like clothing with armor. Padded armor seems smart. All clothes seem to have something in it thus easy for us to check the box. I think armor in clothing that allows good positioning would be a wise consideration.

Dave - at your leisure, would you mind elaborating / clarifying this ? I could have PM'd you but perhaps others may wish to know the same thing. Is there such a thing as just 'padded clothing' ? And when you say "armor....that allows good positioning...." do you mean that the armor is appropriately positioned eg, correct place on legs and elbows ? I noticed the Cycleport (IIRC) has detailed instructions on how to measure legs for correct placement of armor.

BTW, I echo MCRider's observation that you're providing great insight and recommendations. I'm gratified to know that you're actually up to sharing this with us. How are you feeling ??

 

[dcarver]

This thread ain't stinking yet, so keep it going please.

I've often wondered about the European MX/SX riders.. they wear 'underarmour' vs. an exo-skeleton American stuff. Since the early 70's, this has made total sense to me from a layman's perspective. Keep the armor closet to the fragile human body parts. No slipping or sliding, leaving critical areas exposed. I'm currently running Cycleport tops and bottom, but not connected.

Way much to think about..

and I'm so very happy to see you posting and healing..

 

[escapefjrtist]

Good stuff here David. Keep the discussion going...I'm sure this is one thread that won't be ruined and end up in the toilet!

Gear is always a tough decision. Whenever I'm not in my [zip together] Cycleport, abrasion resistance and armor positioning is what I think about most. If Cycleport made truly waterproof gear that works in the PNW, I would have a winter / cold weather set as well. Unfortunately that's not the case.

For my winter gear, a quality back protector sounds a worthwhile addition. Good to see you up and posting!

--G

 

[Silver Penguin]

This thread ain't stinking yet, so keep it going please.

and I'm so very happy to see you posting and healing..

+1 and +1. Agree with DCarver here.

 

[user 213]

3) Nothing to do with clothes, I think a hard look at deer spooking technology is a must. Deer are one of the biggest threats to the motorcycle community because their ubiquitous and because they act randomly most of the time. I have heard of deer sirens that are completely ignored and I have heard of ones that supposedly send everything in the county off to their in-laws for the day. I have little faith of the sirens that work on wind speed, but for research project #2, I will look into the electronic jobs. Seems like a hard core, multi-bike study is in order.

While we would all like to have something that would scare the deer away, it just doesn't work that way. No noise we can make will reliably make deer move away from the sound. As MCRIDER posted, they are equally likely to freeze or run toward you as run away. I've seen deer run out into the road a look after a bike, (and in front of me!!). I've had a deer on a dead run, literally run into the side of me and the bike at 65 mph.

I have heard and seen the electronic deer whistles do nothing. They sure annoy riders though.

 

[Beamer Reamer]

2) Clothing with padding should probably look more like clothing with armor. Padded armor seems smart. All clothes seem to have something in it thus easy for us to check the box. I think armor in clothing that allows good positioning would be a wise consideration.

Dave - at your leisure, would you mind elaborating / clarifying this ? I could have PM'd you but perhaps others may wish to know the same thing. Is there such a thing as just 'padded clothing' ? And when you say "armor....that allows good positioning...." do you mean that the armor is appropriately positioned eg, correct place on legs and elbows ? I noticed the Cycleport (IIRC) has detailed instructions on how to measure legs for correct placement of armor.

BTW, I echo MCRider's observation that you're providing great insight and recommendations. I'm gratified to know that you're actually up to sharing this with us. How are you feeling ??

Lots of the mid-ware clothes has an assortment of possibilities for armor-ish stuff in them. For instance, one pair of pants I owned encouraged pulling out the knee "armor" and taking scissors and trimming it to fit just right. It was basically high density foam that offered a tiny bit of bump protection and maybe a few extra yards of sliding before it burned through. Made you feel better, but not much there of any substance.

Same as the back armor in many clothes. You can feel it, feel good about it, but it doesn't do much when you need it. Just enough there to check the box and feel good about the purchase and your commitment to ATGATT. False feelings I am thinking now.

Lots of sizing on MC clothes get you close, but not a perfect fit. While you can make do with arm length and leg length a bit, the real problem comes with positioning of the protective stuff. Some clothes allow for minor adjustments, some don't. It has to fit right and position right or it is a waste of time. It also has to stay put or it is equally useless. Of course, you need to be able to move and bend - so knee and elbow armor is tricky.

Now to Mr. carver's point.

 

[Beamer Reamer]

This thread ain't stinking yet, so keep it going please.
I've often wondered about the European MX/SX riders.. they wear 'underarmour' vs. an exo-skeleton American stuff. Since the early 70's, this has made total sense to me from a layman's perspective. Keep the armor closet to the fragile human body parts. No slipping or sliding, leaving critical areas exposed. I'm currently running Cycleport tops and bottom, but not connected.

Way much to think about..

and I'm so very happy to see you posting and healing..

Would be interesting to hear from Jerry (CTFJR). He rode through during our last tech meet wearing the protective gear that goes under the clothing. Bohn I think it was. If I recall, he wasn't crazy about it, but I don't remember the details. Google CE Protection and there is all kind of stuff that comes up, I am no expert. I do like the hard, padded, bendy stuff that can be worn against "the fragile human body parts". However, no good if it is hard to deal with, cumbersome, sweaty, etc.

We need the "underarmour" guys to post up a bit with experience, I got nothing. I am just mulling better ways without the benefit of any real knowledge.

 

[airboss]

Don't have a complete answer.

I've tried a couple of different brands of armored jeans and not being happy with the fit or the quality of the products I tried this under my regular jeans.

TPRO Clicky fits well under standard off the rack jeans and even better with the relaxed fit style, breaths enough that I can wear them on the hot days, plus take out the armor and throw them in with the rest of the laundry.

There is also and under shirt available. Haven't tried it, I do like my mesh jacket.

TPRO Under Shirt Clicky

 

[Beamer Reamer]

Don't have a complete answer.
I've tried a couple of different brands of armored jeans and not being happy with the fit or the quality of the products I tried this under my regular jeans.

TPRO Clicky fits well under standard off the rack jeans and even better with the relaxed fit style, breaths enough that I can wear them on the hot days, plus take out the armor and throw them in with the rest of the laundry.

There is also and under shirt available. Haven't tried it, I do like my mesh jacket.

TPRO Under Shirt Clicky

Those are interesting links, thanks for posting. I had just been clicking around and had found a review of that and similar products.

For those scoring at home, or even if you're alone: Linky. This is just an article that talks about this topic in general and reviews a product. Just a jumping off place since there is much to click-on once your there. This particular article is not all that new, but still relevant.

 

[Hudson]

David, it was great to see you and Colleen today. You both looked much better than the internal injuries revealed, so I am really happy! And I love your "get back on the saddle" spirit. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger! I have deep respect for you and Colleen after today.

I did pretty exhaustive review of gear, especially after hanging out with MC007Rider and admiring his Cycleport gear. I also wear the Forcefield TPro back protecter, which has been chosen by several mags as the best, most protective and comfortable gear. I feel naked without it. Sportsguy also got a set, you should ping him for his reaction. You can buy it direct from Johnson Leathers.

But....take a hard look at Jay's Cycleport gear with the quad armor. It's the most expensive gear you can order up, but I've seen it and it is the best there is. Personally, I don't know if that gear and armour would have saved specific injuries, but my bet is that your back and ribs would have fared better, hard to say whether the legs would have been any different, and surely the pelvis injury was pretty unavoidable. But you and Colleen deserve nothing but the best, so buck up, find the extra dough, and plop it down for the Cycle port gear. You are welcome to try mine out (the pants have to be custom fit, but you'll get a sense of the jacket).

For gloves, I've really liked the Held gear. The cycleport gloves are pretty well built too, but my hands don't really them all that well.

Getting on a bike like the FJR and riding like you do, you owe it to yourself and the missus to buy the best gear available and leave nothing to chance, except maybe those damn forest rats.

Be seeyin' ya soon, my brother. Mend quickly so we can check out some bikes soon.

 

[Fred W]

Lots of the mid-ware clothes has an assortment of possibilities for armor-ish stuff in them. For instance, one pair of pants I owned encouraged pulling out the knee "armor" and taking scissors and trimming it to fit just right. It was basically high density foam that offered a tiny bit of bump protection and maybe a few extra yards of sliding before it burned through. Made you feel better, but not much there of any substance.
Same as the back armor in many clothes. You can feel it, feel good about it, but it doesn't do much when you need it. Just enough there to check the box and feel good about the purchase and your commitment to ATGATT. False feelings I am thinking now.

I assume that what you are describing is the low density, perforated foam stuff that is found in some summer gear, such as the very popular First Gear MeshTex. I own some of that, and have retrofitted it with CE rated triple density foam armor. All of the other "mid-tier" gear that I own came with CE rated armor pieces.

Your armor positioning point is well taken. The armor pieces have to be (and stay) in the right places to do anything for you. This requires the gear being fairly tight, which is generally not the most comfortable.

The big difference between the cycleport and other gear seems to be the "wrapper", not the armor. With kevlar being more abrasion resistant that most other materials, it will protect you better in specific types of sliding situations.

I would say that, as in most everything else in one's life, it is always a compromise. In this case, it's with degrees of protection vs comfort. The riding suit has not yet been invented that will protect you from every possible crash situation. Anyone that thinks because they spent $X,000 on gear that they are "safe" is deluding themselves. The suit that might have protected your back in your recent hill descent, might also have caused you to sink to the bottom of the lake when you splashed down.

Each rider needs to determine what level risk they are willing to take, or else get out of riding. I don't mean that facetiously either. For those people that can not come to terms with the risks involved, quitting motorcycling is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

[FastJoyRide]

Ditto the comments on CyclePort gear above. When we picked up our suits in Escondido we also got a tour and lots more info about their design philosophy. There are huge armour pieces protecting the thighs (Part of what requires a break-in period so that these comfortably mold to your body). Apparently the thigh bone is over-involved in serious m/c crashes and while it is relatively hard to break, when in does it will often create massive local bleeding that on-site first aid is unlikely to be able to control.

I can't tell you how many "cute" comments we got in the last 3 weeks at virtually every stop: "you two expecting snow?"; "isn't all the gear too hot?"; etc. We just consider the sources: usually do-rag wearing, unhelmeted cruiser riders in wife beaters with dime store sunglasses as their only eye protection, no gloves etc. Sigh...

We thought long and hard about shelling out that much dough for the custom CyclePort gear but we decided our lives were worth it.

 

[Jay H]

David,

Not sure if you looked at the Cycleport Gear I purchased 4 month's past while at your tech meet. The **** is the bomb. I paid for the extra quad armor and after trimming the pads a little I now have a complete custom fit. Granted it is not real easy to move around in while walking or just standing, but once mounted on the bike it really comes into it's own. The back quad armor is very large and I also purchased the sacrum armor. So other than my neck I am very well protected. I do not know how much help it would have been in your particular situation as what you went through was more knarly than most get offs.

J

 

[rogdeb]

Just read the complete thread to date ................. !!!! HELL OF A RIDE !!

Glad you're able to post about it and be able to maybe rationalize about riding gear and protection.

Our "low side" a few years ago was nothing to what you both underwent. I'll be looking forward to seeing you on Vancouver Island.

 

[wingshot]

First thanks to David for initiating this conversation and his willingness to speak frankly so quickly after his incident. There are not many people with such a strong constitution.

Second, thanks airboss for the links.

TPRO Clicky TPRO Under Shirt Clicky

I struggled with options in buying protective gear form, function, and appearance. Plus, I am an in between sizes and ended up with a larger size as I was unable to stuff myself into a smaller sized. The motostrano gear maybe the solution to snuging up my riding gear or at the very least provide me with a sense that I am doing all I can to ensure my safety.

wingshot

 

[Auburn]

I am a big proponet of leather. The kind of suits that are allowed to be raced in. I currently wear the Dianese "Titanium" 2 piece suit that zips together. I also wear one of there back protectors that is not built into the jacket.

I have crashed three time road racing. Once was a low speed highside after running off the track. Broke a collar bone when the helmet and shoulder hit at the same time. Not much you can do to protect for that. The second was a front end tuck at 140 mph and low sided. Slid a long wayus on my back, no injuries. Just bruises. The third was a 100 mph highside in some one elses oil on the track. I landed flat on my back after going about 20' in the air (according to the corner workers). Broke my lefty foot on the launch. The back protector did such a good job that I did not even knock the wind out of me. It was an early model Dianese with the overlapping plastic plates.

All you have to do is look at what the road racers wear. The crashes they take, and the injuries they receive. It is becoming more the norm that they receive only bruises or minimal breaks. I think even Rossi will say his recenbt crash and injuries were a fluke and you can be sure he is wearing the best gear that is available (or not yet to the public.).

 

[user 6393]

Ya guys, keep on buying leather