Bent valve in 2005 Expedition

[HotRodZilla]

Ok, I only ask this question here because I know lots of you guys are great with motors.

My wife has a 2005 Ford Expedition with the 300HP 5.4L Triton engine. DOHC and variable valve timing. In 11 years, we've put 180k on it. We could get a new one, but this one is just so dammed nice and we have a payment of exactly zero.

In October of 2014, she took it in because the engine was making a LOT of racket. Ended up getting a rebuilt motor put into it because they found "brass shavings" in the oil pan. I guess those dummies don't know there's no brass in there, those were pieces of heated steel. That was a 7 week fight with the dealer because the service guy was a 22yo kid who knew nothing about cars, and they kept screwing with the warranty company. The $7k job cost us nothing due to that warranty, and it's good until 201k. Lol...Best money I EVER spent.

We got the Expo back, and it just wasn't "right." Not bad, but something was amiss. Then it started idling really rough at stop lights. Sometimes, smooth as glass, but perpetually worse. I thought a coil was flaky. So, my wife took it in again a couple weeks ago. They did a compression test and the #7 cylinder failed. They told me the engine has a 3 year warranty, so they are replacing it. Easy.

Then, last week, the service guy tells me they ordered a new short block. The plan was to use the existing head and bolt it onto the new block. I had doubts, but WTH do I know? So, today, he calls and says they got the engine apart, ready for the new block and the #7 cylinder has a bent valve. I asked him if that happened on disassembly and he said, "No, that's what caused the cylinder failure. When the piston hit the valve." So, a new head is on order and will be here late this week. Goal is to have our Expo back next week.

So my question is: WTF happened in there that ONE piston bent ONE valve. The service guy had no idea. No reason for it to be out of time, and even if it was, that whole bank would have grenaded. Is it possible the Variable Cam Timing went haywire and let that one piston hit its valve? Those dammed cam phasers were, IMHO, the beginning of the demise of a really good engine. They make noise, cause lubrication issues, and just generally suck. My 1999 with the non-variable cams is still going strong at 160k. The new dammed owner calls me every 2 weeks to remind me it's the best truck he's ever had. Lol...

Anyway, any ideas how only one valve in only one piston found each other? My wife asked me how many motors I'm going to let them put in this car. I said, "As long as it's warrantied, they can do it once a year." Haha...Honestly, it's time for a new one. We may get it back and just sell it. I'll get a new one with the EcoBoost.

Ok, so, ideas?

 

[NTXFJR]

Sounds like your theory about the cam phaser might be close by the description of the symptoms. I've been hearing stories of issues with some of the eco boost systems as well. Cool technology though.

 

[airboss]

Technology

My next car is going to be 1948 Buick.

 

[infrared]

HotRodZilla,

Best that I can offer is that one valve just stuck open (with no other hardware involved), and the piston hit it. Dirt getting through the air cleaner could cause that, or maybe some metal defect in the valve itself or valve guide. If the other valves are cruddy around the stems also, you may have bad gasoline coming in, and this failure will most likely repeat with random valves.

I'd still keep that unit as long as the warrantee is still working, then sell.

Cheers,

infrared

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

Wasn't the 2005 5.4 a SOHC 3 valve design? Was it bent exhaust valve? Because it is pretty unlikely it would bend only one intake valve, you'd bend both.

From what I see, it is an interference engine, so the valves can hit the piston but if it did, there must be a cam phasing issue..

I hear ya on keeping an old Expy. I have a 99 that I bought new that has just been put out to pasture.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Wasn't the 2005 5.4 a SOHC 3 valve design? Was it bent exhaust valve? Because it is pretty unlikely it would bend only one intake valve, you'd bend both.
From what I see, it is an interference engine, so the valves can hit the piston but if it did, there must be a cam phasing issue..

I hear ya on keeping an old Expy. I have a 99 that I bought new that has just been put out to pasture.

It could be. I could have sworn each side had a cam, because the dumb service guy and I got into an argument over the journals on the right side, last time. However, as dumb as he was, maybe it is a SOHC and that's something else he had no idea about. I haven't bothered to research it.

 

[eddie]

The 5.4 3 valve had oiling concerns in the cylinder heads. Im guessing the upper part of the engine was starving for oil. This is usually caused by worn cam journals in the heads. Wish ya the best of luck. Would sure be nice if they would of just replaced the entire engine. I dont feel very good about the other head.

ed

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, essentially, now they are replacing the whole engine, just one part at a time. The got the short block and now a new head is enroute. The current head is toast. Oil starvation is what killed the first motor, but they had no idea why. They were impressed with how clean it was inside. Not sure what killed this one. Yet...

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

It could be. I could have sworn each side had a cam, because the dumb service guy and I got into an argument over the journals on the right side, last time. However, as dumb as he was, maybe it is a SOHC and that's something else he had no idea about. I haven't bothered to research it.

SOHC would be one cam per head. DOHC would be two cams per head - four in total.

 

[HotRodZilla]

^^Gawd...DUH! You're absolutely correct. SOHC. One per side. Man...My stupid is strong today!

 

[El Toro Joe]

^^Gawd...DUH! You're absolutely correct. SOHC. One per side. Man...My stupid is strong today!

 

[hppants]

AJ - by my count you are one head short of a complete engine. Are they planning to send the "non-bent valve" head to a machine shop for re-work, or at a minimum - thorough inspection?

I guess my second thought is - what comes with a short block? Specifically, do you get new parts for everything associated with the camshaft variable timing mechanism? If not, what assurances do they offer that the existing parts are fit for duty? And what about this oil starving issue? What has Ford done to address that in this particular motor? The service manager should be able to explain that in terms you can appreciate. I'd want to know about that. Just because the warranty is picking this up doesn't relieve them of this obligation, IMO.

You didn't ask, but I'll offer this. Consider getting rid of this vehicle after you get it back. It might fetch some increased value with the "new motor". But more importantly, it's hauling precious cargo. You want to go to work, go on bike trips, go anywhere knowing that she has reliable and safe transportation to use while you are gone. Clearly, that is not the case here. Just my $0.02 - YMMV.

 

[mcatrophy]

Without knowing if it uses them, broken valve spring?

 

[JustinNck1]

I know from experience, the 3V triton motors are a PITA to install the rockers, which required a special valve spring tool. If not done correctly, they could have bent the valve.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Thanks for the input. Made a call this morning, and it sounds like they scrapped the two part idea and just have a new complete motor on the way. Something about Ford's Cost Center determining that the first way was too expensive.

 

[Geezer]

Thanks for the input. Made a call this morning, and it sounds like they scrapped the two part idea and just have a new complete motor on the way. Something about Ford's Cost Center determining that the first way was too expensive.

I was surprised they thought the labor cost of putting in a short block would be less than a complete engine.

Is this one new, rebuilt, or salvaged? If new then you'll probably have that Expedition for a long time.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

Sounds like the best solution all round - I'm guessing it will a "remanufactured" unit in a shiny new Ford box.

 

[hppants]

I'd feel a whole lot better about it that way, and I'm sure you do to.

Hopefully the new motor will have upgraded parts where they were failing before.

 

[DennisJ]

My Dad had a 'Black 49 Roadmaster. I still remember him letting me hand him wrenches, sockets and other stuff. First lesson in wrenching. Treasured memory.
My next car is going to be 1948 Buick.