Bias ply vs. Radials

[dobias]

Just being curious:

For us less speedy touring types looking for tire longevity, what are the downsides of using the same belted tires as used on the BMW K1200LT?

dobias :glare:

 

[dobias]

Bump!

dobias :glare:

 

[MCRIDER007]

Just being curious:For us less speedy touring types looking for tire longevity, what are the downsides of using the same belted tires as used on the BMW K1200LT?

Since no one else is responding, I will take a shot at it. The LT is a much heavier bike than the FJR so the tires are probably going to have much stiffer sidewalls and give a pretty harsh ride when used on a FJR. I would also expect a considerable loss of tire traction because of the use of harder rubber and with stiffer sidewalls the tire might not heat up as much as designed. I think you would be better off going with the Metzeler 880 that some of the LD riders use.

 

[Bounce]

Within the Concours riding community there are some who choose to use tires designed for Gold Wings. They get some amazing mileage out of the rear tire that way (on the order of nearly 20,000 miles). But the number of people who have had their tire slip under the easiest of conditions is well known enough that the tires have become known by the acronym EBWT: Evil Bike Wrecking Tires.

There an old truism at play here: Tires that wear like iron grip like iron too.

 

[bmwhd]

Just being curious:For us less speedy touring types looking for tire longevity, what are the downsides of using the same belted tires as used on the BMW K1200LT?

dobias :glare:

Hmm...interesting idea. Are you talking specifically about the BT020 rear tire for the LT? That was my favorite tire for that bike when I owned one. I got great mileage and they gripped just fine. But then again, there was 900lb of bike on it (not to mention me and my gear). The re-enforced sidewall on the LT specific BT020 might be too stiff for the FJR and cause a harsh ride.

 

[dobias]

bmwhd,

I thought the BT020 is a Z rated radial not a bias belted tire.

There was a model of the K1200LT (or K1100LT) that was bias belted tires. I'm not conversant about the various models enough to say which ones.

I figured that if the bias tires performed well enough for that K1200LT beast-of-burden, they should be OK for my style of riding, always two-up & often loaded.

I accept the consensus that the FJR should have radials even with their limited mileage.

The ME880 radials sound like my best choice. I'm concerned about their ability to be plugged, to get home on, with their steel belts. I know rubber plugs are out of the question, but are the sticky strings proven to do the job?

The tire descriptions are strangely lacking & vague as to their construction & materials. How can I determine which tires have steel belts or not?

dobias :glare:

 

[madmike2]

There are some riders now using ME880s. Perhaps one of them will chime in and share their experience.

 

[bmwhd]

bmwhd,I thought the BT020 is a Z rated radial not a bias belted tire.

There was a model of the K1200LT (or K1100LT) that was bias belted tires. I'm not conversant about the various models enough to say which ones.

I figured that if the bias tires performed well enough for that K1200LT beast-of-burden, they should be OK for my style of riding, always two-up & often loaded.

I accept the consensus that the FJR should have radials even with their limited mileage.

The ME880 radials sound like my best choice. I'm concerned about their ability to be plugged, to get home on, with their steel belts. I know rubber plugs are out of the question, but are the sticky strings proven to do the job?

The tire descriptions are strangely lacking & vague as to their construction & materials. How can I determine which tires have steel belts or not?

dobias :glare:

Ah. OK, the BT020 specific for the K1200LT is only V rated and has been offered in both bias and radial over the years. The Z rated version is not reinforced and therefore can't be used on K1200LT safely (but you don't care about that).

So the question becomes can you live with the V speed rating of the K1200LT-specific BT020 (bias or rad) in order to get the extended mileage the reinforced tire might offer?

 

[Rogue]

I know rubber plugs are out of the question, but are the sticky strings proven to do the job?dobias :glare:

I don't like riding with plugged tires but I did plug (Sticky String) an Avon and put over 5,000 miles on it after that (with speeds over 120mph) and had no problems.

 

[dobias]

bmwhd,

So the question becomes can you live with the V speed rating of the K1200LT-specific BT020 (bias or rad) in order to get the extended mileage the reinforced tire might offer?

I definately could live with a V speed rating. Can you give any estimate of mileage compared to the Z rating? Even a percentage of increase would be helpful. I didn't find any model numbers relating to the re enforced construction. By the way, are they steel belted?

dobias :glare:

 

[Grumpy]

The ME 880 is also "V" rated. It's a zero degree steel belt with a rayon sidewall construction. Like Bounce said, longer life, but less traction. I've only got about 6,000 miles on my current ME 880 on the rear, but it appears that it'll go another 6,000 miles before replacement is necessary. I'm currently running a Pilot Road on the front and anticipate that it'll be shot at about the same time.

I'm a geezer and don't run flat out all the time. However, this tire has been two-up thru the Dragon's Tail, Cherahola (sp?) Parkway and then one up, with gear, to Nova Scotia and back to Western North Carolina. This last Sunday I did 250 miles on the local roads that were similar to "the Dragon's tail". While the ME 880 doesn't stick as well as ther Avons I used to run, it's good enough for me.

The 170 X 60 tire sure does turn in significantly better than the 180 X 55.....no fight with the handlebars at all, just counter steer and it dives right in. And, it holds the line much better, too!

Along with less traction, the other negative is that the tire "cups". I never had this happen before on the rear, but my current tire is doing this.

Now, all of this said.........and someone asked for this input........I don't want to get any crap from anyone about this, period! I'm happy doing what I am and I'm not bothering you, so if you don't like what I'm doing, talk to yourselves, not me!

jim

 

[Rogue]

The ME 880 is also "V" rated. It's a zero degree steel belt with a rayon sidewall construction. Like Bounce said, longer life, but less traction. I've only got about 6,000 miles on my current ME 880 on the rear, but it appears that it'll go another 6,000 miles before replacement is necessary. I'm currently running a Pilot Road on the front and anticipate that it'll be shot at about the same time.
I'm a geezer and don't run flat out all the time. However, this tire has been two-up thru the Dragon's Tail, Cherahola (sp?) Parkway and then one up, with gear, to Nova Scotia and back to Western North Carolina. This last Sunday I did 250 miles on the local roads that were similar to "the Dragon's tail". While the ME 880 doesn't stick as well as ther Avons I used to run, it's good enough for me.

The 170 X 60 tire sure does turn in significantly better than the 180 X 55.....no fight with the handlebars at all, just counter steer and it dives right in. And, it holds the line much better, too!

Along with less traction, the other negative is that the tire "cups". I never had this happen before on the rear, but my current tire is doing this.

Now, all of this said.........and someone asked for this input........I don't want to get any crap from anyone about this, period! I'm happy doing what I am and I'm not bothering you, so if you don't like what I'm doing, talk to yourselves, not me!

jim

Hey Jim,

Your tire choices are all F**ked up!

 

[dobias]

Grumpy,

Might I ask, why didn't you use the ME880 in front, too?

dobias :glare:

 

[Fred H.]

Within the Concours riding community there are some who choose to use tires designed for Gold Wings. They get some amazing mileage out of the rear tire that way (on the order of nearly 20,000 miles). But the number of people who have had their tire slip under the easiest of conditions is well known enough that the tires have become known by the acronym EBWT: Evil Bike Wrecking Tires.
There an old truism at play here: Tires that wear like iron grip like iron too.

Last year, a Concours rider died in my arms after he low sided in a right turn into oncoming traffic. He had a bias ply tire mounted on his bike, and from everything we could determine at the accident scene, his rear tire lost traction in the corner, leaving a striated mark on the pavement where it happened.

It was the worst day of my riding career, and I hope to never have to watch another rider die again. It is something I will never forget as long as I live.

PLEASE DO NOT PUT BIAS PLY TIRES ON A MOTORCYCLE MADE FOR Z RATED RADIALS.

 

[dobias]

Fred H,

Enough said!

dobias :glare:

 

[Grumpy]

Dobias, I like the Pilot Road on the front. They seem to last about as long as the Avons did and don't have the Avon wobble. With this setup I'll be able to replace both tires at the same time.

jim

 

[Bounce]

Fred (and others) experiences are WHY the Wing tire on the Connie has become so well know that even the acronym is recognized (EBWT).

 

[bmwhd]

bmwhd,
So the question becomes can you live with the V speed rating of the K1200LT-specific BT020 (bias or rad) in order to get the extended mileage the reinforced tire might offer?

I definately could live with a V speed rating. Can you give any estimate of mileage compared to the Z rating? Even a percentage of increase would be helpful. I didn't find any model numbers relating to the re enforced construction. By the way, are they steel belted?

dobias :glare:

The RADIAL BT020 for the K1200LT is the [SIZE=12pt]160/70R17 79V [/SIZE]

The keys are the R (duh) and the 79V weight rating that indicates the reinforced carcass. There is also a bias version of the same 79V tire for the LT. The '99 - '04 LTs used the radial, the '05 to present LTs use the bias. I don't know that anyone ever figured out why they changed other than the '05 redesign added even more power and weight to the LT.

I used to get 12K out of this rear tire on my LT. I'm such an FJR nOOb that I don't even know if that's the same size tire as our bikes use but if it is, I don't see why it wouldn't be good for long mileage.

 

[dobias]

bmwhd,

Thanks for the information. Since I have sizeable chicken strips on my 180/55 ZR70 I would be OK with the 160/70 R70.

The unusual BMW switch "later in life" of the K1200LT from radial to bias tires is what started me on my quest for information.

Is there any movement back to radials by the K1200LT owners?

If you could direct me to the most active K1200LT forum, I'd like to check it out.

Thanks again.

dobias :glare: