Bolts snapped off in wheel

[Zolton]

So there I am, getting ready to take my front and rear wheels in to the local bike shop to have my new Michelin Pilot Road 2's installed when I decided to take the dust cover off the rear wheel so I can remove the drive hub and check the condition of the damper blocks. Simple right?

Yeah...I'm the simple one. They seem tight but still move so I push my luck and....****...snap them off. :angry:

Now I'm really pissed off with myself. So now I'm thinking I've either got to get the remainder out or drill and re-tap the holes. I figure these buggers are lock tighted in place so a bolt remover is probably not going to work very well. Plus these are small so I'm guessing the way to go is drill and tap.

Any tips?

I've been a tradesman for over 30 years (insert your own sarcastic remark here) but never had to do this particular bit of surgery. And I'd rather not screw up any further. :huh:

 

[just roy]

if you do a search you will find a thread where someone else did this just to take pictures for someone else. i can't remember which retard did it but he found the screws to be held in with a very good grade of locktite. no amount of heat would get the screws loose without damaging the paint. break the heads off the screws. grind them flat with the rim. carefully center punch them. with a drill bit half the size of the screw drill straight in about the drills diameter. if the hole is not center place the bit in the top of the hole at a 45deg angle pointing toward the center. drill a little then stand the drill up straight while still pushing down lightly. see if you are now centered. if not repeat. if your centered drill through the screw holding the drill up straight. have a friend watch one angle to help you out. after drilling the small hole figure out which drill you need for the screw hole and drill it as straight as you can. now tap. i went to the next larger american screw size. don't try to ez out them this will end in edm machining.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

'just roy' is right about a previous thread -- and, not too long ago.

He's right, too, about the repair procedure....

A machinist friend once gave me these words of wisdom: "Never let metal know you're in a hurry."

Not that you were in a hurry -- but, you get the idea.... :huh:

 

[Zolton]

Thanks fellas. I pretty much knew that's how you drill a bolt out...no disrespect.

I'm thinking more along the lines of using a stainless replacement bolt along with a lockwasher and antiseize. Any problems with dissimilar metals and such? I'd rather not use locktite again because I'd like access to the damper blocks in the future, however I'd rather this dustcover not come loose at speed. Plus, if I used stainless and locktite, there's not much chance of drilling that puppy out should this happen again.

The wheel is at the dealer at the moment but I'll be checking to see how much of an issue bolt head clearance is in order to use a lockwasher.

Any one out there see a problem with this plan? I'd kick my own ass if I could. <_<

 

[Ignacio]

I'm thinking more along the lines of using a stainless replacement bolt along with a lockwasher and antiseize. Any problems with dissimilar metals and such? I'd rather not use locktite again because I'd like access to the damper blocks in the future, however I'd rather this dustcover not come loose at speed. Plus, if I used stainless and locktite, there's not much chance of drilling that puppy out should this happen again.

I think the same factory guy that overtightens oil drain plugs also does these three screws.

I've broken off two between two wheels (I have a spare rear wheel, but didn't have a spare hub for a while) and think they're also loctited with overly potent stuff. Snapped the heads right off at that point that you think the screw is going to pop loose....but did catastrophically instead. One I was able to get easily the chunk out and the other required full effort with an easy-out and retapping afterwards.

I then replaced them with high-quality stainless button head allen screws and used medium loctite. I would use some version of that as having them back out while riding wouldn't be a good thing....even if you go with the low strength stuff. And I wouldn't bother with a washer if you get the button heads.

I've since had them out once and think the medium or light loctite will work fine. There's that slight pop feeling of the loctite doing it's job, but not too good a job.

 

[SkooterG]

Uhhhh.......iggy..................

Why take them off?

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

if you do a search you will find a thread where someone else did this just to take pictures for someone else. i can't remember which retard did it ...

I don't remember seeing that thread. The only recent thread on this subject that I remember is this one: <Link>

Thanks fellas. I pretty much knew that's how you drill a bolt out...no disrespect.

Do you have a set of left twist drills? They would come in handy for this job, after you have the broken screws spot drilled.

Uhhhh.......iggy..................
Why take them off?

Let this thread be another warning. Resist the temptation to take the dust cover off!

 

[JamesK]

Sorry if this is an ignorant question, but I was under impression that using an impact driver to loosen bolts held in with strong/red locktite was a true and tested method.

Why does it fail in this case?

 

[JamesK]

Uhhhh.......iggy..................
Why take them off?

SkooterG,

I've seen your comment like the one above every time someone has a problem with some "preventative maintenance" type of task which would lead me to believe that you did not perform these. And yet you have managed to clock up a very impressive number of miles without having to do these tasks.

Do you have a list of things you don't check and still manage this kind of mileage, it would be a nice guide to follow of things that don't need checking - thanks.

 

[shuswaper]

Uhhhh.......iggy..................
Why take them off?

SkooterG,

I've seen your comment like the one above every time someone has a problem with some "preventative maintenance" type of task which would lead me to believe that you did not perform these. And yet you have managed to clock up a very impressive number of miles without having to do these tasks.

Do you have a list of things you don't check and still manage this kind of mileage, it would be a nice guide to follow of things that don't need checking - thanks.

.....I think James is on to something here! We should have a separate department on this Forum, maybe titled "Caution: the things not to do with your FJR" (or similar to that effect). It could be a valuable compendium of info for the do-it-your-selfers around here...you know, an ounce of prevention and all! :assassin:

 

[Ignacio]

Uhhhh.......iggy..................
Why take them off?

I have a spare wheel, but didn't have a spare hub for quite a while....and would swap between wheels. Kind of defeated the point of having two wheels, but those were dark times of a disease I didn't understand and didn't want to relive....until now.

Mid 2007 there was the unfortunate period where I thought '05s had two bearings because of this Yamaha schematic. I pressed two quite excited that we had more stout bearings than others.

Then there was this period of confusion where my wheel wouldn't fit no matter how much I rocked it back and forth....followed by PMs with a couple other people that had done spare wheels...followed by more confusion and general malaise.

There was a period of fever where I imagined needing a spacer from an '03 followed by the idea I needed a bigger hammer. Fortunately, I didn't do either of these because of my weakness from the vapors something fierce.

Then there was this period of angry dremeling in 2008 followed by the destruction of several screw drivers. Those were seriously dark times...and even though I probably talked with you during that time....I was not in my right mind.

Then there was this period where I finally bought a cold punch, three smacks with a hammer, and was back to one bearing. The fever had finally broke!

Then I found the button head fasteners and my condition is now in full remission.

I hope no other FJR owners experience Dualhubitis. It's a poorly understood disease, profoundly debilitating, and causes untold amounts of suffering each year. The infected rarely share their story because of the potential embarrassment of being fixated on a schematic and not reconciling with the contradictory part count of "1".

My name is Matt and I'm a Dualhubitis survivor. Please donate to our telethon now. :dribble:

 

[SkooterG]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yer killin me!

 

[SkooterG]

I've seen your comment like the one above every time someone has a problem with some "preventative maintenance" type of task which would lead me to believe that you did not perform these. And yet you have managed to clock up a very impressive number of miles without having to do these tasks.Do you have a list of things you don't check and still manage this kind of mileage, it would be a nice guide to follow of things that don't need checking - thanks.

Iffin it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT.

Well, first off, there's no preventative maintenance to be done on the wheel. On one of my rear wheels (I have 4 ), the dust cover is slightly bent, or out-of-round. How that happened I have no idea. I thought about replacing it, but figured, 'why?'. KISS!

The mechanic I use seems to be a knowledgeable and experienced guy who's been wrenching bikes for 30-40 years. He sees my FJR every 27k for a valve check. In the beginning, I would ask him if my FJR needed this or that - many things presribed by the service interval, and he told me that a lot of these maintenance evolutions are more likely to cause problems. Bearings, once worn and 'set' are better left alone. At first I was skeptical, but have learned to trust his advice.

So, in 179k, I have never serviced my head bearings or swingarm bearings for example. If I were to find play or looseness, well then sure, that would be a good time to address that issue. But why do it before?

 

[dcarver]

I've seen your comment like the one above every time someone has a problem with some "preventative maintenance" type of task which would lead me to believe that you did not perform these. And yet you have managed to clock up a very impressive number of miles without having to do these tasks.Do you have a list of things you don't check and still manage this kind of mileage, it would be a nice guide to follow of things that don't need checking - thanks.

Iffin it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT.

Well, first off, there's no preventative maintenance to be done on the wheel. On one of my rear wheels (I have 4 ), the dust cover is slightly bent, or out-of-round. How that happened I have no idea. I thought about replacing it, but figured, 'why?'. KISS!

The mechanic I use seems to be a knowledgeable and experienced guy who's been wrenching bikes for 30-40 years. He sees my FJR every 27k for a valve check. In the beginning, I would ask him if my FJR needed this or that - many things presribed by the service interval, and he told me that a lot of these maintenance evolutions are more likely to cause problems. Bearings, once worn and 'set' are better left alone. At first I was skeptical, but have learned to trust his advice.

So, in 179k, I have never serviced my head bearings or swingarm bearings for example. If I were to find play or looseness, well then sure, that would be a good time to address that issue. But why do it before?

Everyone need remember SkooterG lives in 100+F 0.000002% RH climate too. Folks in Florida or PNW or other areas of higher RH/Wet *will* have different experiences. Personally, I'm somewhere between SkooterG's 'run it till it breaks Cowboy mentality' and Jestal's 'pre-maintenance now' thought train. Just sayin'.. :****:

 

[Zorlac]

"I would ask him if my FJR needed this or that - many things presribed by the service interval, and he told me that a lot of these maintenance evolutions are more likely to cause problems. Bearings, once worn and 'set' are better left alone. At first I was skeptical, but have learned to trust his advice.

So, in 179k, I have never serviced my head bearings or swingarm bearings for example. If I were to find play or looseness, well then sure, that would be a good time to address that issue. But why do it before?"

"Iffin it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT."

I concur 150%!

""Caution: the things not to do with your FJR" (or similar to that effect)."

Sorta like yanking the injector rail to drill a hole in the throttle stop tang when installing a CC unit.

 

[TILAM]

If it aint broke, screw around with it for awhile and it will be...

 

[dcarver]

Yer all chicken to work on yer bikes then, right? Is that the real issue? Just sayin and hoping Friday shows up soon! :****: :rofl:

'Fraid to put air in tires cause the Schrader might stick?

Oil in crankcase cause you might strip the bolt when using FSM settings?

Add coolant 'cause you might loose the rubber cap?

Just Wonderin'...

 

[Zolton]

If you are wondering why I did this....just look at my avatar. It pretty much explains me in a nut shell.

I have a Suzuki SV650 which shifts like butter.

A co-worker has a Hayabusa which shifted not so good.

He heard that worn damper blocks or "cush dampers" might cause harsh shift-itis so he put in new ones and claims it cured the affliction.

My FJR shifts harsher than I would like so just before I took the wheels in to have new rubber mounted I thought I'd have a peek at the damper blocks.

And that is how I ended up in this 12 step support group :dribble:

By the way, once when I looked at my SV650's damper blocks there was a "rubber dust" of some description inside the hub so I thought I might find the same within the FJR hub. Maybe it's more common to chain drive bikes....who the **** knows. :blink: (It was clean inside)

Anywho... I've got the wheel on a work surface and have carefully drilled out the first two bolts. They are metric and appear to be slightly larger than a number 10 standard bolt. I've only got taps for standard sizes and the next one up is a quarter twenty which I think I will use (it is however a fair bit larger). If I bought the same size metric tap and bolt I doubt I'd be able to install it in the original hole as I am doing this all free hand and as brilliant and skilled as I am, the hole I made isn't perfectly centered on the original. But its very close.

I figure I'll get a button cap bolt like the one Iggy shows in a quarter twenty and use the wimpiest loctite like he suggested. B)

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

They are metric and appear to be slightly larger than a number 10 standard bolt. I've only got taps for standard sizes and the next one up is a quarter twenty which I think I will use (it is however a fair bit larger).

I would stick with metric. (Just my 2¢)