Brand new FJR shuddering

[Bull]

Hi Hawk

I just watched your video and read all the thread to here.

That looks way wrong to me - the way your bike is hunting around like that..... ?

That isn't normal in my experience (maybe with 20 year old ratbikes, but not for a new feej) - though I can't make any suggestions to you about source of problem, I'd encourage you to be patient and I hope your bike gets fixed properly. I know you must be climbing the walls in frustration right now and I hope this thing gets worked out - the bike (once smooth) is worth fighting for. Don't give up - and keep us posted on your progress,

cheers - Bull

 

[Gary]

Hawk, have you been following this thread?

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=24058

 

[CHRIS_D]

Hawk,

I'm having this very same problem with my 2007. I haven't tried locking the throttle at a steady RPM yet, however the way I noticed it was at highway speeds where it felt like the bike was oscillating at between 2k-3k RPM.

Please let me know if you ever resolved this issue or if it's just another one of those damn things we have to live with.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Hawk600]

Thank you all for the inputs!

Sorry if I did not updated this thread before, but I was so upset (as I cannot ride and the winter is getting closer)that I stayed away from everything related to motorcycles.

I am still having the problem with my bike and at this point don't know if is a surge or something worse.

I left the bike in the dealer on 8/20/07 and it suppose to stay there fore no longer than couple days, however still there until now.

I am loosing all the nice remaining days we have here in Northeast to ride before the winter sets up, including this past gorgeous labor day weekend.

Call me unlucky but the experience I had with Yamaha Customer Service was also a nightmare. Total lack of interest or follow up with the dealer or with me, I did not fell the ownership of the problem even after I escalated it to a supervisor. (maybe is my accent )

After innumerous calls to Yamaha(shouldn't be need do it), and after speak with a lot of different people, I was very lucky to talk to one of the heads of the department and he is helping me out to achieve a solution in this case.

This person is very knowledgeable and he has a 06 FJR, and after hear my pain an how disappointed I am with this hole experience he wanted to send a Regional Supervisor to the dealer to inspect the bike which will probably happening in couple days.

Until there I will have to wait again, and as soon as I have any update about what was the problem I will post it.

For now, thank you all folks for helping out. This board is a an awesome way to learn and feel the spirit of the other FJR riders.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Hawk,

Hate to hear you are going through sooo much grief. Sounds like you are on the right track and I hope they find a solution soon. This is not a typical symptom and will look forward to your joy and resolution.

Keep the faith!

 

[Hawk600]

Thank you for your support 03HiYoSilver ! :clapping:

I got the bike back after Yamaha sent a tech to work on it, and it runs a lot better now.

The dealer's tech tried fix it for almost two weeks without success, and they admitted the bike was failing/hesitating because was too lean.

Only after this high level tech went there, the problem was solved.

What he did?

TPS adjust

TBS adjust

REPLACED THE ECU (No, this probably isn't a 2008 one but read bellow)

Adjusted the CO levels

Yes, they gave me a brand new ECU, because the older one was bad plus, the Yami Tech (not the dealer one) drilled the headers and adjusted the CO levels with the gas analyzer right of the cylinders.

For sure they asked for my authorization before they did, however because the rivnuts were vibrating after the settings they installed a new header in my bike.

The result is a decent and rideable bike now almost perfect, but still have some hesitation while in accell right after a decel but I am satisfied with the results.

Why? (And the most important) Because I was confirmed that the NEW modified ECU is coming :yahoo: , by the end of this month or begriming of November. And Yamaha will install it in my bike as soon it is available.

About the CO levels, I don't have the numbers yet ( Sorry Gary from Fairbanks), but I know the cylinder four was very lean, and I don't want to do a Barbarian mod again just to figure out the number, so I will try get it with the tech and will be a pleasure to share. I fell the bike a little reacher but is and torkey, almost like a cruiser.

Important to say that I have an excellent help from Yamaha Customer Relations, but only after I escalated the issue due a initial poor customer service experience. I was assured (and I believe) by this Director that this poor quality service is not common and he actually had a serious meeting with the people involved about the case.

The only problem now is the fact that the winter is coming and soon will be to cold to ride. I bought the bike in the end of May and rode barely a full month since then and soon she will be seating away for so so 4 to 5 winter months.

I had a big hit with this bike, in part due bad dealer's techs not duplicating the problem (lack of knowledge/interest to try/time/budget limitation) and due an awful customer relations experience but the solution in the end make my faith in the brand go up, and I can just say thank you all guys for the inputs since the beginning. :clapping:

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Hawk,

Your are welcome in spades.

Hurray! Thanks for the followup. I am so happy for you and glad you got it worked out. You are lucky in a sense that Yamaha supported you after the non-Yamaha modifications. They are very funny about that...but I am sure they wanted to make you happy.

Please give your Yamaha support(we are lucky they speak english) person a Big Thank You...they really do a great job in making things right.

Hopefully you can still ride this season with the windshield up with warmer clothes... with the aerodynamics of this bike, you can do soooo much more than others.

Enjoy your ride wish you all the best....patience is a virtue!

 

[ELP_JC]

Hey Hawk, so you UNDID the Barbarian mod? If not, you don't have to change anything to look at the numbers; just get to the CO screen and look up the numbers by touching either the left (down) or right (up) button to see all 4 values. Remember that to change them you need to hold BOTH buttons for 2 seconds or so.

I have my stock CO numbers, but left the BM 'activated' in case it's ever needed, plus to be able to invoke the diagnostic mode.

Hope you can give us the numbers to compare them to stock.

By the way, my bike and all other 3 I test rode had the same problem. It's a 'lean surge', but when there's a load on the engine, it's much less of an issue. I can definitely feel my bike hesitate on purpose, but it's only a minor annoyance easily defeated. But don't get me started on the altitude surge; wish it was as mild. Glad you're a happy camper now. And great news on the new ECU; can't wait. Later.

JC

 

[ionbeam]

Hi Hawk! Glad you finally got some satisfaction with your FJR. Too bad you had to miss so much of the riding season. Was it your original dealer that fixed the issues?

 

[Hawk600]

Hey Hawk, so you UNDID the Barbarian mod?

Yes 'ELP_JC'.

After test different settings without success, I reverted to the latest dealer's settings because I knew the Yamaha tech would be making new adjustments anyways and I thought they would not like to see the ECU jumped.

I called the Yami's tech about the numbers. He did not have with him, and will send me that, hovewer, he will stay out in a trip for couple weeks.

If I have some time I will do the mod again to figure it out and will let you know.

Take care.

 

[Hawk600]

Hi Hawk! Glad you finally got some satisfaction with your FJR. Too bad you had to miss so much of the riding season. Was it your original dealer that fixed the issues?

Hi Ionbean,

Thank you for your help. In fact Yamaha sent a specialist to fix it while the bike was on Excell.

The folks on Excell were very helpfull and did duplicate the problem but after 2 weeks with my bike they could not fix it. I them called Yamaha and they sent a tech there.

I am happy for now, but I will wait the new ECU which I believe will be the real cure. I was told this one reads information faster.

Thank you again.

 

[ELP_JC]

If I have some time I will do the mod again to figure it out and will let you know.

Thanks man. And I don't think any Yamaha guy would even look at those wires. Besides, you can also invoke that same menu by shorting 2 wires under the tank, as explained in the service manual. In other words, it's no secret. All I'd do is put the numbers back to stock.

Anyway, if you redo it, could you please check your TPS range as well when COLD? It's the menu that immediately appears after invoking the 'DiAg' mode (step 01). After holding the 2 buttons for a few seconds, a number between 15 and 17 should appear. And when you open the throttle WOT, a number between 97 and 100. Just curious where yours were set as well.

You're the only one who has this done, and it's very important to me, and I bet many others, to know those values. Please don't be offended by my next offer, but if you want a monetary incentive to help us out, I could start a new thread and seek some donations to cover your inconvenience. I won't bug you again, so just reply or PM me your request. You're the only one with that mod, and the best part is it was done by Yamaha itself, hence my insistence. Thanks man, and sorry to be pushy. Take care.

JC

 

[Hawk600]

Thank you ELP_JC but don't worry about any money.

If I will do it will be to help you and the fellow FJR riders in this Board.

I did not do yet because I got a bad stomach virus and I am sick for about two weeks now and my strenght is in the negative side. I am crying every day because we are having awesome weather here and I cannot ride before the winter hits!

I am starting to get better and I believe I could do it this weekend, however even if we figure out these numbers, don't forget that the new ECU is around the corner and that would change everything again, right?

 

[ELP_JC]

I did not do yet because I got a bad stomach virus and I am sick for about two weeks now and my strenght is in the negative side.

Sorry to hear that buddy; hope you get better. I'm in no hurry. I can ride and weather is nice too, but my bike is sick, so we're in the same boat for different reasons .

As far as the ECU, the new one should cure my bike indeed (knocking on wood), but I bet the CO numbers are not going to change, but I could be wrong; we'll find out soon enough. I'm going to experiment with your CO numbers, especially if idle is not rock steady, as it should be. Idle was way better when I temporarily made CO numbers the same (+15) while on the center stand, but didn't want to leave them like that for fear of running too lean. I also didn't want to put them all at 18 or 21, since I didn't want to potentially foul plug #1. I have them like factory now, since my bike was surging even on flat highways at +7, and exhaust was sooty as heck. It it sooty again now even with stock CO numbers, but that was probably due to the surging on my last mountain trip, which apparently causes the bike to run super rich (at least mine). Will clean it up again to keep monitoring it.

Appreciate your offer to help; many thanks again. And take your time on the 'homework' I gave you buddy; leave it for a rainy day. Take care.

JC

 

[Hawk600]

I feel your pain about a sick bike. Some days I didn't fell like riding that way...wasn't fun....

To start, I checked the TPs and the settings are 15 closed and 105 oppened.

Hope it helps.

Regards

 

[ELP_JC]

I checked the TPs and the settings are 15 closed and 105 oppened.

Thanks buddy. Mine are 15 and 100. Your numbers are the first I see jumping over 100 with 15 down low. The critical number is the lower one (higher means richer), and the one used to calibrate the TPS (15-17), and we're identical. I bet the ECU interprets 100+ as 100 on the high end, but it'd be nice to know for sure (curious); otherwise your bike might be faster than mine < he he>. As a final comment, my bike jumps to 16 when fully hot; thermal expansion, I guess. Thanks for your help again. May I assume you're feeling better now? Hope so.

JC

 

[ionbeam]

The lower number, say 15, means that the ECU thinks the throttle plates are 15% open. The upper number, 100, tells the ECU the throttle plates are 100% open. This is one of many data elements that goes into determining the FI shot. It is a sure bet that the ECU throws out any number over 100% throttle opening. This means that when Hawk's ECU is being told that the throttle plates are fully open, they in fact are only 95% open causing an erroneous FI calculation and perhaps negating the affect of the remaining 5% of throttle travel. Hawk's FJR would actually be slower.

This is not a serious problem, and certainly nothing to get worried over, but when Hawk's ECU gets replaced he should have his TPS recalibrated.

The resistive material in the TPS has a certain PPM (parts per million) of thermal drift, typically in the range of 100 PPM. Some materials are positive, that is the value goes up when hot and others are negative, resulting in a lowering of value. If your TPS calibration is right on the edge of digit change, then thermal drift would cause the reading to change. The least significant digit gets rounded, you don't see the true absolute TPS value unless you use a volt meter on the TPS and perform the volt to % calculation.

 

[ELP_JC]

Thanks for the explanation man.

when Hawk's ECU gets replaced he should have his TPS recalibrated.

Since you can only calibrate the TPS on the lower end (15 to 17), and the upper end should be between 97 and 100, there's nothing further to 'calibrate' on the TPS, right? But that doesn't mean it's defective IMO. My guess is his throttle plates are opening more than hours, meaning they're over 90º open at WOT (or whatever the limit is); 100 to 105 is a very small difference in throttle opening.

Hey, nice way to keep the thread 'bumped' until our buddy gets us the CO numbers < ha ha>; just kidding. Interesting discussion.

JC

 

[ionbeam]

The 'span' of the TPS is fixed. The 'calibration' is setting the TPS to 15-17 (or ~750mV) while the throttle cam is resting on the idle stop. If a TBS were to be done poorly, such that the screws are topped or bottomed out causing the tech to have to take the idle stop adjustment to the limit then the TPS would be set to an erroneous idle stop setting. Still not critical but something the dealer has to take care of before Hawk signs off on the whole ECU project.

 

[ELP_JC]

Remember GenIIs have the throttle stops fixed (yeah, you could move it, but requires removal of the TB assembly), so our TBs are always resting at the same point at idle. Our idle is altered by allowing more or less air via a 'master' air screw, which lets the individual air screws gulp more/less air, and increase/decrease idle speed accordingly. This adjustment is probably more limited than messing with the throttle stop screw, so sometimes you have to screw in or out the individual air screws the same amount to reach the desired idle speed; this can happen when performing a TBS. I personally like GenI's setup better.

Since Hawk's lower value is in spec (15), and higher out of spec by 5 (105), AND the TPS has a fixed 'span', it's either a defective TPS, or the WOT throttle stop is a bit over normal. I'm sure there's more variance in TB shaft travel than TPS span, causing such 'discrepancies'. But as you said, it's absolutely no biggie. Damn engineers always want to rationalize things, as stupid as they might be < lol>. Take care.

JC