Brand new FJR shuddering

[FJRocket]

I just did another TBS the other day. It was really close to within specs. But once I balanced it out, it was very noticeable how much better the bike ran.

You guys that have had sensors go bad, are the symptoms of that similar to what Hawk is stating? Wasn't there a sensor recall or something early in the '06s? Just shooting in the dark, here.

 

[2 Horsepower]

You are not alone in this instability problem, I had the same thing on my 2005 FJR. The dealer solution was to set the idle to 1200 rpm, which corresponds to about 14 mph. This is just great when you are in stop and go heavy traffic. I thought my clutch would go up in smoke several times. My solution to this was to outflank the EPA mandated emissions BS that causes the problem by installing a Power Commander, so I could adjust the idle mixture to suit myself.

There are several good maps that you can install with the Power Commander that can be found on the Forums. Tweaking the idle mixture enabled me to set the idle down to 800 rpm and I have a smooth liner throttle response right from idle. Typically the stock idle mixture is very lean and the colder the ambient temperature gets the worse the problem seemed to get. The system is supposed to be temperature compensated, but perhaps not very well compensated at idle rpm.

2 horsepower

 

[Hawk600]

Guys, thank you all for the replies!

I did the TBS today and it did not solve the problem

The TB was slightly out of sync, and after adjust it the bike got 5 to 10% better (smoother) and maybe a bit faster, but the shudder still there!

In fact the TBS toll was helpful to pinpoint the problem....while doing the sync I tried keep the accell fixed in 2000 rpm to check the TB alignment and as usual the bike started to oscillate the rpm, I than realized that cylinder number one scale was falling down randomly for nothing, while the other 3 were steady.

The problem could be in fact a misfiring. :dribble:

I checked the spark plug on that cylinder and it looks clean.

I than rode to the closest Yamaha dealer (not the BS one I bought the bike) and spoke with one of the mechanics.

He said to drop the bike down next week as it looks like some problem certainly covered under warranty.

So, my guess now...bad fuel injector or maybe something electrical. :glare:

 

[Hit the Road Jack]

Just today I read about the FZ-1 having similar attributes (Cycle World). They noted a big improvement by increasing the idle such that the 'off-idle' roll-on is not so abrupt.

Makes sense, sorta.

Can't hurt to try.

On a personal note, although I previously commented that the PC-III is a definite fix, the Barbarian Jumper Mod netted me the best improvement (+7 on each cylinder) prior to installing it.

 

[RonBB]

Thank you RonBB, the shudder is really anoying. I adjusted the free play but did not help a lot. I almost sure it needs a TBS. I will try the TBS myself and if does not solve the problem, I will escalate the issue like you said as it is kind of unnaceptable behavior in a smooth bike like the FJR.

I'm fact I believe the results will be better doing it myself rather than leave with the dealer. thats why I wanna try first.

Sorry that it didn't help with the problem. On both my 05 & 07 I had too much play in the throttle cables when the bikes were delivered. As others have suggested, regular TBS's are very helpful. I keep my warmed up idle at about 1100 rpm also. I'm not suggesting that the throttle is not very touchy, it is, but with a little experience with the FJR and the above maintenance you should be able to hold a consistant smooth speed. Practice a very smooth throttle approach especially when starting out from a stop & making a turn in the lower gears. Best of luck. PS Let us know what the dealer finds.

 

[sprint_st]

I was just talking to a guy who has this same problem on his 07. Like I said, it's not the FI or throttle issues we have beat to death with Barbarian pick axes or PCIII's, it is a more serious issue AND it seems Yamaha is aware of it to the point they have picked up his bike and are working on the problem. He is not sure what it is and it seems that Yamaha isn't exactly forthcoming in explaining it either.

Now guys, please, don't deluge me with a bunch of "well my bike is fine" types of replies. Mine is just ducky too, but like Yogi would say, if you have the problem, you have a problem.

 

[RonBB]

He is not sure what it is and it seems that Yamaha isn't exactly forthcoming in explaining it either.

If you hear any feedback please post & keep us in the loop. Thanks for the info.

 

[Karmak]

A throttle body synch is definitely one of the first things I would suggest, but that may not cure the problem completely. Unless some extra attention is provided, such as the "barbarian mod" or a Power Commander, you will probably continue to get fluctuation when you hold the rpms at 2500, 3000 (etc.). I have already performed several synchs, but the one thing that evened everything out really nice was the addition of the Techlusion (adjusts your fuel delivery to richen things a bit). I think that due to the bike being new and so far out of whack, the dealer should get it into the ballpark-for free! I also wonder if it's more of an issue than just the throttle bodies being out of spec-your situation seems a bit extreme.

Oh yeah, I heard about a callback-something to do with a chip that controls idle and has resulted in some stalls for some people at inconvenient times.

 

[Hawk600]

My bike stalled twice today in Laconia, and it usually happens after I stop in a red light, however I don't think the idle control the culprit. The engine idles steady at 1000 rpm.

I think the bike stalls because the cylinder one misfires when I apply the throttle and the engine has only 3 cylinders to deal with the weight. The idle is firm, I twist the throstle and the engine dies right way. It does not happen all the time, is random.

I also noticed today an increase in the shuddering in highway speeds, inside the 2000 to 3000 rpm range...the bike still ridable, but it is really annoying. And now I am concerned if all this little knocks could compromise the bike's brake in, or leave me with problem in the future because the engine did not brake in a smoother way.

My guess is something wrong with the FI, because if I whack the throttle wide open, the engine revs normally, however, if I try increase the rpm gradually, it pops and I get that fluctuation ( at least untill 3000 rpm).

Maybe Sprint ST is right and could be a defect in some of the 07's. I will call the dealer today and see if they can squeeze me in before the 27th.

My bike stalled twice today in Laconia, and it usually happens after I stop in a red light, however I don't think the idle control the culprit. The engine idles steady at 1000 rpm.

I think the bike stalls because the cylinder one misfires when I apply the throttle and the engine has only 3 cylinders to deal with the weight. The idle is firm, I twist the throstle and the engine dies right way. It does not happen all the time, is random.

I also noticed today an increase in the shuddering in highway speeds, inside the 2000 to 3000 rpm range...the bike still ridable, but it is really annoying. And now I am concerned if all this little knocks could compromise the bike's brake in, or leave me with problem in the future because the engine did not brake in a smoother way.

My guess is something wrong with the FI, because if I whack the throttle wide open, the engine revs normally, however, if I try increase the rpm gradually, it pops and I get that fluctuation ( at least untill 3000 rpm).

Maybe Sprint ST is right and could be a defect in some of the 07's. I will call the dealer today and see if they can squeeze me in before the 27th.

 

[madmike2]

This "sounds" like the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) problem. It has cause a cuple of riders to tip over at low speeds. The mechanic can do a diagnostic on it via the onboard computer...they'll know how (If I wasn't so lazy I'd find the posting on it--it might be in the Bin-o'-Facts).

Secondly, the G-2 throttle tube modifies the effects of the "cam shaped" throttle cable wheel on the throttle body end. The "throttle tube" has the cable wheel shaped opposite the engine end so that the throttle application is LINEAR. The OEM ramps the opening of the throttle so you get a sudden surge that the G-2 changes.

As with the other posters to this thread, plese keep it updated as the problems are searched out. Here's crossing my fingers that the second mechanic can figure it out.

 

[conwest]

I got a 2007 FJR month ago (1100 miles now) and I am loving the bike except by the fact that is being hard to ride (control it) at lower speeds or in traffic.
The engine does not have clean and progressive acceleration bellow 3000 rpm and pops slightly, sounding like valves out of adjustment or bad sparks. I suspect the throttle body is out of sync or alignment.

For example if try keep it in 1500 or even 2500 rpm steady it just don't stay....the rpm varies above and bellow even if I keep holding the throttle in the same position.

This problem gets worse during in town riding or bumper to bumper situations, when I have to compensate with the clutch to avoid the shuddering, it is a slight shudder but is there.

The dealer says it is normal and the mechanic did not want play with as he said it is normal for FJRs and takes time to do the alignment, and Yamaha would have to authorize the service. <_<

I just can't get it as a satisfactory answer, but I do not know anybody else with a FJR to compare and see if mine got a problem or not.

What do you folks think? Are your bikes smooth and clean from idle to regular speeds ?

I am going to call the dealer again, but I want have more feedback before I start a fight to fix the problem if, it is really a problem. :angry2:

...fer Kryst sakes, dosen`t anyone recognize a troll anymore?

 

[sprint_st]

...fer Kryst sakes, dosen`t anyone recognize a troll anymore?

How the hell do you think they'll recognize a troll when they don't even read what the guy said were the symptoms. He is NOT talking about the throttle snatch issue. PCIII's, frickin' Barbarians and G2's are all BS. Why not recommend putting helium in the tires? Troll and gremlin cures are closer to a fix than a TBS, now throttle position sensor, ECU, pressure sensors those are valid concerns.

Now for all those guys who are saying who the hell is he, and why is his "opinion" better than mine? Been riding and fixing bikes for 40 years, that's who he is.

 

[Hawk600]

This "sounds" like the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) problem. It has cause a cuple of riders to tip over at low speeds. The mechanic can do a diagnostic on it via the onboard computer...they'll know how (If I wasn't so lazy I'd find the posting on it--it might be in the Bin-o'-Facts).
Secondly, the G-2 throttle tube modifies the effects of the "cam shaped" throttle cable wheel on the throttle body end. The "throttle tube" has the cable wheel shaped opposite the engine end so that the throttle application is LINEAR. The OEM ramps the opening of the throttle so you get a sudden surge that the G-2 changes.

As with the other posters to this thread, plese keep it updated as the problems are searched out. Here's crossing my fingers that the second mechanic can figure it out.

Thank you Madmike2 I am also with the fingers crossed, and I will definitely update you folks about the problem.

This mechanic is willing to help and when I told him I did the TBS myself and noticed the cylinder one misfiring, he told to me to do a check up via the onboard computer, however I decided let him do it because even if I had the service manual and could figure out the code, I would not be able to fix it myself, plus the bike is brand new and it must be fixed under warranty.

A problem in the TPS makes sense and after read the comments here, I am thinking in install a G2 cam if the installation is not that complicated.

I called the dealer today but seems like they will not be able to help before the day scheduled (June 27th)so, I will have to wait

 

[Hawk600]

...fer Kryst sakes, dosen`t anyone recognize a troll anymore?

How the hell do you think they'll recognize a troll when they don't even read what the guy said were the symptoms. He is NOT talking about the throttle snatch issue. PCIII's, frickin' Barbarians and G2's are all BS. Why not recommend putting helium in the tires? Troll and gremlin cures are closer to a fix than a TBS, now throttle position sensor, ECU, pressure sensors those are valid concerns.

Now for all those guys who are saying who the hell is he, and why is his "opinion" better than mine? Been riding and fixing bikes for 40 years, that's who he is.

Thank you for understanding my point Sprint ST!

I don't think the problem is throttle cam related, and I cleared out the TBS, so, is probably something originated from one of the parts you mentioned.

I am comfortable with the strength needed to twist the stock throttle and I could have done the throttle spring mod while the bike was apart to do the TBS but I decided against it. Maybe I will install a G2 as it is highly recommended here.

 

[Hawk600]

UPDATE:

The problem still the same after I brought the bike to the dealer. :angry:

They "found" something wrong, however it did not make a difference at all.

Seems like one of the vacuum hoses of the throttle body on cylinder one was nicked. Yamaha calls it negative pressure line, and they had no clue how/when it happened.

They are submitting the bill to Yamaha and it "should" be covered under warranty. I told I will be VERY upset if not! :angry:

I also installed a throttle cam, but it did not make any difference to me regarding the throttle abruptness. If wasn't the hassle to take it out and ship it I would return it.

I am very upset with the bike now, because this problem happens in the exactly rpm range used to ride in town, meaning I bought a brand new bike that can only perform accordingly in highway. <_<

I don't have too many choices now. I have a few dealer around (Southern NH) and the two closest to me think the bike is normal. So if I complain with Yamaha they will need a dealer looking at the bike to give them a feedback, and based on these two, I would be screwed. So, my options are, 1 - complain and fight with Yamaha and the dealers which is ridiculous situation considering it is a new bike.

2- Try a PC III, which is also unacceptable after pay almost $14k, plus the dealer's mechanic told me that if I install it, it VOIDS my warrant in the EFI and TB!

3- Sell the bike which I do not want do considering I just got rid of a 2005 bike to buy this one.

I inclined to try the PCII, but I am not sure about if this will fix my problem, plus the warranty void is a big concern!

What to do now?

 

[chiefj48]

hi all,

there is a law called MAGNUSON-MOSS, that covers your warranty of the bike no matter if you install the pcIII. the law states that the product must perform the way it's suposed to, or they have to return your money. they have 30 days to repair you product. so if your bike is at the dealer for 30 days, and they can't solve the problem, they have to take it back. the 30 days are the total number that you didn't have your bike while under factory warranty, so it could be 1 week here, 5 days there...ect. i was a warranty manager for h-d, and i know of a few bikes that were returned for this reason. i've taken power comander classes, and the first thing they said was that it's up to the manufacture to prove that the install of the pc was the cause of the problem.

hope this helps

 

[ionbeam]

Hi hawk600!

The throttle tube you installed will only take care of the non-linear throttle response caused by the throttle pulley. Normally the PCIII takes care of engine abruptness and surging. In your case it sounds like you may have a defect/failure someplace. Do you know if your dealer has checked for error codes? Unfortunately, most dealers can't troubleshoot beyond checking to see that 4 spark plugs are in place, gas is in the tank and there are no error codes. If you can't get satisfaction with the dealer you are currently working with my may want to try:

Excel power sports

590 Second St. Manchester, NH

603-668-1315

I've had very good luck with the service manager going the extra mile for his customers. If he can't resolve your problem I would trust him to take the initiative and escalate the issue up Yamaha's service chain.

You shouldn’t have any problem with dealers because there is a PCIII installed. If you dealer says it would void the warranty he is either ignorant or untrustworthy (IMO). Heck, Excel buys and modifies some of their new floor inventory with all kinds of tick parts – want a brand new R1 already set up with headers, can, seat windshield and other performance parts? Excel has R1s, FZs and others with various stages of hi-pro parts. If a dealer will do this to new machines he can’t say that aftermarket bits and pieces void warranties.

Good luck with getting a satisfactory resolution (quickly)!

 

[Hawk600]

hi all,
there is a law called MAGNUSON-MOSS, that covers your warranty of the bike no matter if you install the pcIII. the law states that the product must perform the way it's suposed to, or they have to return your money. they have 30 days to repair you product. so if your bike is at the dealer for 30 days, and they can't solve the problem, they have to take it back. the 30 days are the total number that you didn't have your bike while under factory warranty, so it could be 1 week here, 5 days there...ect. i was a warranty manager for h-d, and i know of a few bikes that were returned for this reason. i've taken power comander classes, and the first thing they said was that it's up to the manufacture to prove that the install of the pc was the cause of the problem.

hope this helps

That is good to know, thank you.

I would like to install a PCIII as long as it would fix the problem for good. I am reading all the Forum's treads regarding PCIII before I install it to don't have another deception. :glare:

 

[Hawk600]

Hi hawk600!
The throttle tube you installed will only take care of the non-linear throttle response caused by the throttle pulley. Normally the PCIII takes care of engine abruptness and surging. In your case it sounds like you may have a defect/failure someplace. Do you know if your dealer has checked for error codes? Unfortunately, most dealers can't troubleshoot beyond checking to see that 4 spark plugs are in place, gas is in the tank and there are no error codes. If you can't get satisfaction with the dealer you are currently working with my may want to try:

Excel power sports

590 Second St. Manchester, NH

603-668-1315

I've had very good luck with the service manager going the extra mile for his customers. If he can't resolve your problem I would trust him to take the initiative and escalate the issue up Yamaha's service chain.

You shouldn’t have any problem with dealers because there is a PCIII installed. If you dealer says it would void the warranty he is either ignorant or untrustworthy (IMO). Heck, Excel buys and modifies some of their new floor inventory with all kinds of tick parts – want a brand new R1 already set up with headers, can, seat windshield and other performance parts? Excel has R1s, FZs and others with various stages of hi-pro parts. If a dealer will do this to new machines he can’t say that aftermarket bits and pieces void warranties.

Good luck with getting a satisfactory resolution (quickly)!

Hi Ionbeam

Thank you for the recomendation. I leave 25 minutes away from this dealer and I will certainlly will try them.

I am assuming the dealer near my house (Nashua Motorsport not the one I bought the bike) did check the codes as this was one of the procedures he asked if I did before drop the bike. They found that vacuum line nicked, however I believe this had nothing to do with the surge.

The dealer I bought the bike from is far away in Concord, and the mechanic just ignored my affirmation about the bike shuddering in low rpm, saying it was looking normal to him. I spoke with the Service Manager after that, and I could drop the bike there but I don't have enough confidence to do it after that mechanic's comment, I feel like I would be spending my time and patience to hear again the bike is "normal". :glare:

I am actually making a video clip of the bike's burble so I can better show you folks the problem as I am not good writing.

 

[ionbeam]

The dealer I bought the bike from is far away in Concord, and the mechanic just ignored my affirmation about the bike shuddering in low rpm, saying it was looking normal to him. I spoke with the Service Manager after that, and I could drop the bike there but I don't have enough confidence to do it after that mechanic's comment, I feel like I would be spending my time and patience to hear again the bike is "normal". :glare:

And that far away dealer would be Freedom Cycle in Concord? It's sad, they were once a great dealer, that's where my '04 came from. These days Freedom sucks!! I've heard good things about Hudson Cycle Center (Rt. 3A) but I've had no experience with them.

I work in Manchester just a couple of miles from Excel Power Sports.