Calling all Audio Techs !!

[Further]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike intercom. Either the Sena SMH10 or the Scala G4. Both new. Both high marks on WebBikeWorld reviews.

Problem is, the wife and I are real picky about our music and don't want to even bother with all this unless we can use our great ER6 earphones. For some reason, none of the makers think this should be an issue for anyone, and they don't offer the ability to swap out their in-helmet speakers for earphones. All they'd have to do is make the speakers plug in separately from the mic, via a stereo mini-plug... but nooooo !

Cycle Gadget offers an adapter to make the Chatterbox XBi do this, but I really am drawn to the newer Sena and G4. So I wanna do something scary. I wanna take a wire cutter to the speaker cords of either the Sena or G4, and make my own custom adaptation. And since I'm doin' it, I might as well put both a jack AND a plug in place, so that on short day rides when we don't care about music we can have the simplicity of just using the in-helmet speakers for intercom. But then on trips when we gotta have great tunes, we can swap out for the ER6 earphones. How great would that be?

Here's my problem. I'm no audio tech.! I mean, I'm not an idiot (least not when most people are lookin') I've done some soldering. I'm pretty good with my hands when dealing with pesky little wires, but I really need some advice from someone who KNOWS what they're doin'.

First big question is does someone make a 3.5mm stereo mini jack for do-it-yourselfer's? I know RadioShack makes MONO ones you can pull apart and solder wires to and screw back together, but not sure about STEREO ones, which require 4 leads instead of 2.

For both the Sena and the G4, the speaker wires coming out of the units are individual wires, one for each speaker, (2 leads in each). So the next question is, if they're not color coded, how do I identify which lead is which within each of those 2 wires? If I get the Left/Right speaker reversed it's no big deal to me, but I need to know which are the "hot" wires, or the signal bearing wires, and which of the connectors within the jack I should solder them to.

And any other really brilliant suggestions would be appreciated too, but please don't tell me I'm crazy to screw around like this with expensive elec. equipment... I already KNOW that.

If I'm encouraged and really think I can do this successfully, I'll document it with some photos and write up a "How To". There have GOT to be other folks out there frustrated by the inability of such bike intercoms to use in-ear earphones.

Chris

 

[Buckeyechuck]

This might help. I haven't tried it myself yet. I just bought a G4.

Scroll down the thread for step by step instructions.

https://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442304

 

[dcarver]

Have you considered Starcom or Autocom? They both have rider-pillion communication as well as interfacing to gps, phone, radar detector, mp3, etc.

I'm running an 'older' StarCom Advanced unit on both the FJR and Suzuki DL650, using Eto ER6 ear buds. BTW, check the specs, the ER6 have better response and range than the ER6i's.

 

[Further]

Have you considered Starcom or Autocom? They both have rider-pillion communication as well as interfacing to gps, phone, radar detector, mp3, etc.
I'm running an 'older' StarCom Advanced unit on both the FJR and Suzuki DL650, using Eto ER6 ear buds. BTW, check the specs, the ER6 have better response and range than the ER6i's.

Thanks, Dcarver. Yep, when I first considered an intercom a couple years ago, I thought seriously about both the Starcom and Autocom, but I procrastinated for a long time. And now, with what appears to be real serious advances in the various Blue Tooth units, I've pretty much sold myself on one of them. Cable free is a good thing.

What I like MOST about the ER6i's is that they're the first of probably a dozen sets I've tried over the years (including a custom molded pair) that fit me comfortably. Guess I have small ear canals. And with the smallest "flanges" selected on the ER6's, I have multi-hour comfort along with very good noise reduction, as well as fine sound - although I do have to adjust the equalizer on my MP3 to lower the extreme high end and boost bass. On the bike, at speed, they sounded way too bright out of the box. A high hat cymbal would just about spin my head around !!

thanks for the suggestion. I'll check the ER6's vs ER6i's, (I meant to say I have the "i" actually). I got the ER6i for myself and my wife for like $68 each. Imagine the ER6's are more outta my range.

 

[Further]

This might help. I haven't tried it myself yet. I just bought a G4.
Scroll down the thread for step by step instructions.

https://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442304

Buckeye, thanks.

Well, this certainly answered one question for me, RadioShack does make DIY stereo mini jacks.

As to the wiring order questions, not so sure. First they were talking about a unit that only puts out mono signal, though they were rigging it to interface with stereo earbuds. I'll have to decipher all the responces a bit more. Maybe the best way to figure it out is just to plug my earbuds into the opened jack, and test the various wires on the various terminals while I have the unit outputting some music, and listen for the right results ???? That makes a certain amount of sense.

Thanks

 

[Texan]

You can do the mods you are considering. Stereo is 3 wires (the ground is common). The ground wire will likely be unshielded and the left and right signals will be insulated. Radio shack has the mini stero jacks you need to do this mod.

 

[rfulcher]

My wife and I use the G4 system with ER6i's. The G4 speakers are loud enough to hear over the ER6i. It helps if you mute the music if you want to talk on the G4. We both like the combination. Both of our bikes have windshields.

When I first bought my G4 system I wanted to cut the speaker wires and replace with a standard miniplug. At the Daytona bike show the the G4 people were next to a custom earphone booth. The guys at the custom earphone booth were converting their earphones to replace the G4 speakers. They said that they could not make it work with a miniplug. They had to use a special 4 connector plug. They could not make it work if they combined the negative leads to use with a 3 lead miniplug.

I don't know enough to 2nd guess the guys at the show. Maybe someone else knows how it can be done.

 

[Further]

My wife and I use the G4 system with ER6i's. The G4 speakers are loud enough to hear over the ER6i. It helps if you mute the music if you want to talk on the G4. We both like the combination. Both of our bikes have windshields.
When I first bought my G4 system I wanted to cut the speaker wires and replace with a standard miniplug. At the Daytona bike show the the G4 people were next to a custom earphone booth. The guys at the custom earphone booth were converting their earphones to replace the G4 speakers. They said that they could not make it work with a miniplug. They had to use a special 4 connector plug. They could not make it work if they combined the negative leads to use with a 3 lead miniplug.

I don't know enough to 2nd guess the guys at the show. Maybe someone else knows how it can be done.

Wow. This project gets more complex every time I turn around. So I've got "Texan" saying that it should be simple, that stereo speakers/earbuds share a common ground. I'm projecting that to mean that a stereo jack should have 3 leads, a left, a right, and one ground (which I guess you would connect both ground wires to - thus "sharing"). Then on the other hand I've got "rfulcher" saying he had some specific experience with the G4 and some custom earphone guys at the Daytona bike show who actually tried such a conversion on a G4 and found it unsuitable. Maybe there's some specific anomalous characteristic about the G4 wiring that screws up a standard connection? Oh boy...

BTW, "rfulcher", in the past I've thought about your suggestion of using the G4 strictly for the intercom function, and having my wife and I just plug straight into the MP3 player with our ER6i's. I'm sure that could work relatively well, but for several years we've "shared" the MP3 while riding. The MP3 stays in the tankbag, with a little audio booster attached, and we both plug into the audio booster. But that's gotten REALLY old. Every time we mount and dismount, there are TWO annoying cables to carefully unplug or replug. If someone (my wife) forgets and quickly dismounts and walks away I hear a yelp as the earbuds get ripped from her ear canals. Ouch !! I'd really like to do away with those cables. REALLY !!

This brings me to another frustrating new development, even though Chatterbox is the only Bluetooth unit that very specifically says that one of their features on the XBi is streaming of stereo music from the driver to passenger, I've assumed that all these Bluetooth intercom units could do the same in some way. I mean, why would anyone WANT an intercom on which only one person could listen to the music player? What does one do with a thing like that, draw straws each time you start the bike?

But I've found the info on that specific question really vague on the WebBikeWorld reviews, and even vague in the G4 and the Sena SMH10 owners manuals I downloaded. So, just to be crystal clear before I reach for my Visa, I emailed Support at Sena. Today I got a response from someone who's first language is not English. What I glean, is that NO, both people on the intercom can NOT listen to the music simultaneously. The music cannot be "streamed" from the driver to passenger headset, NOR can each headset simultaneously connect to the MP3 via Bluetooth.

So now I'm back to square one. In this case, square one is probably the Chatterbox XBi, which will accomplish this "feat" of electronic magic, but which doesn't seem to be quite as capable a unit in other areas.

BTW, the Sena support person did say that within a month they'll be offering a headset option that will allow 3rd party earbuds to connect.

 

[bmwhd]

You might also look at the Interphone F4. Same basic capabilities as the other two and at least one of it's speakers is connected with a 2.5mm plug so you'd only have to modify one side.

I'm really happy with mine.

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike intercom. Either the Sena SMH10 or the Scala G4. Both new. Both high marks on WebBikeWorld reviews.
Problem is, the wife and I are real picky about our music and don't want to even bother with all this unless we can use our great ER6 earphones. For some reason, none of the makers think this should be an issue for anyone, and they don't offer the ability to swap out their in-helmet speakers for earphones. All they'd have to do is make the speakers plug in separately from the mic, via a stereo mini-plug... but nooooo !

Cycle Gadget offers an adapter to make the Chatterbox XBi do this, but I really am drawn to the newer Sena and G4. So I wanna do something scary. I wanna take a wire cutter to the speaker cords of either the Sena or G4, and make my own custom adaptation. And since I'm doin' it, I might as well put both a jack AND a plug in place, so that on short day rides when we don't care about music we can have the simplicity of just using the in-helmet speakers for intercom. But then on trips when we gotta have great tunes, we can swap out for the ER6 earphones. How great would that be?

Here's my problem. I'm no audio tech.! I mean, I'm not an idiot (least not when most people are lookin') I've done some soldering. I'm pretty good with my hands when dealing with pesky little wires, but I really need some advice from someone who KNOWS what they're doin'.

First big question is does someone make a 3.5mm stereo mini jack for do-it-yourselfer's? I know RadioShack makes MONO ones you can pull apart and solder wires to and screw back together, but not sure about STEREO ones, which require 4 leads instead of 2.

For both the Sena and the G4, the speaker wires coming out of the units are individual wires, one for each speaker, (2 leads in each). So the next question is, if they're not color coded, how do I identify which lead is which within each of those 2 wires? If I get the Left/Right speaker reversed it's no big deal to me, but I need to know which are the "hot" wires, or the signal bearing wires, and which of the connectors within the jack I should solder them to.

And any other really brilliant suggestions would be appreciated too, but please don't tell me I'm crazy to screw around like this with expensive elec. equipment... I already KNOW that.

If I'm encouraged and really think I can do this successfully, I'll document it with some photos and write up a "How To". There have GOT to be other folks out there frustrated by the inability of such bike intercoms to use in-ear earphones.

Chris

 

[mferriter]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike intercom. Either the Sena SMH10 or the Scala G4. Both new. Both high marks on WebBikeWorld reviews.
Problem is, the wife and I are real picky about our music and don't want to even bother with all this unless we can use our great ER6 earphones. For some reason, none of the makers think this should be an issue for anyone, and they don't offer the ability to swap out their in-helmet speakers for earphones. All they'd have to do is make the speakers plug in separately from the mic, via a stereo mini-plug... but nooooo !

Cycle Gadget offers an adapter to make the Chatterbox XBi do this, but I really am drawn to the newer Sena and G4. So I wanna do something scary. I wanna take a wire cutter to the speaker cords of either the Sena or G4, and make my own custom adaptation. And since I'm doin' it, I might as well put both a jack AND a plug in place, so that on short day rides when we don't care about music we can have the simplicity of just using the in-helmet speakers for intercom. But then on trips when we gotta have great tunes, we can swap out for the ER6 earphones. How great would that be?

Here's my problem. I'm no audio tech.! I mean, I'm not an idiot (least not when most people are lookin') I've done some soldering. I'm pretty good with my hands when dealing with pesky little wires, but I really need some advice from someone who KNOWS what they're doin'.

First big question is does someone make a 3.5mm stereo mini jack for do-it-yourselfer's? I know RadioShack makes MONO ones you can pull apart and solder wires to and screw back together, but not sure about STEREO ones, which require 4 leads instead of 2.

For both the Sena and the G4, the speaker wires coming out of the units are individual wires, one for each speaker, (2 leads in each). So the next question is, if they're not color coded, how do I identify which lead is which within each of those 2 wires? If I get the Left/Right speaker reversed it's no big deal to me, but I need to know which are the "hot" wires, or the signal bearing wires, and which of the connectors within the jack I should solder them to.

And any other really brilliant suggestions would be appreciated too, but please don't tell me I'm crazy to screw around like this with expensive elec. equipment... I already KNOW that.

If I'm encouraged and really think I can do this successfully, I'll document it with some photos and write up a "How To". There have GOT to be other folks out there frustrated by the inability of such bike intercoms to use in-ear earphones.

Chris

Keep inmind that the ER6i wires are very wimpy, probably especially compared to the speaker wires. If you solder heavier wires, these will tend to pull the earbuds out of your ears. I have this happen every once in a while if the wire gets hooked on something and shile I'm turning my head.

You also have to leave enough slack to put them in first before putting your helmet on - not an issue with speakers.

Personally I love the ER6i's, just wish the wires were slightly more heavy duty. I only use mine with my ipod (inside my jacket) or GPS (on the fork stem) at the moment. The wire gets caught in the once in a while and can whip around pretty violently.

 

[ian]

Chris

The wire gets caught in the once in a while and can whip around pretty violently.

I run the wire down the inside of my jacket, out the front bottom and connect to a female 3.5 mm hanging outside the tank bag to the MixIt II inside. Easily disconnected at gas stops, etc. (Sorry about the tortured syntax.) Ian, Iowa

 

[rfulcher]

BTW, "rfulcher", in the past I've thought about your suggestion of using the G4 strictly for the intercom function, and having my wife and I just plug straight into the MP3 player with our ER6i's. I'm sure that could work relatively well, but for several years we've "shared" the MP3 while riding. The MP3 stays in the tankbag, with a little audio booster attached, and we both plug into the audio booster. But that's gotten REALLY old. Every time we mount and dismount, there are TWO annoying cables to carefully unplug or replug. If someone (my wife) forgets and quickly dismounts and walks away I hear a yelp as the earbuds get ripped from her ear canals. Ouch !! I'd really like to do away with those cables. REALLY !!

How about 2 MP3 players and keep each on each person, I frequently use an MP3 on on an arm band. My wife like to use her on a lanyard on her neck.

 

[Further]

BTW, "rfulcher", in the past I've thought about your suggestion of using the G4 strictly for the intercom function, and having my wife and I just plug straight into the MP3 player with our ER6i's. I'm sure that could work relatively well, but for several years we've "shared" the MP3 while riding. The MP3 stays in the tankbag, with a little audio booster attached, and we both plug into the audio booster. But that's gotten REALLY old. Every time we mount and dismount, there are TWO annoying cables to carefully unplug or replug. If someone (my wife) forgets and quickly dismounts and walks away I hear a yelp as the earbuds get ripped from her ear canals. Ouch !! I'd really like to do away with those cables. REALLY !!

How about 2 MP3 players and keep each on each person, I frequently use an MP3 on on an arm band. My wife like to use her on a lanyard on her neck.

Yep, could do that, but you know my wife isn't going to settle for an inexpensive little one, she'll want one that will hold all 4k songs, like our existing one does. THEN... guess who gets to install, update, and maintain the 2nd MP3 ???? You get where I'm goin' with this ?? No, if it comes down to that, I'll opt to keep it simple and just go with the Chatterbox XBi which seems to be the only intercom which can "share" music between rider/passenger, and which I've just now found out DOES offer an optional headset that allows an earbud plug-in. (It's not offered on their website, but they have it and you can call and order it by phone.)

 

[slapnpop]

For what it's worth, I have an Xbi, and you don't have to have an adapter to use other headphones. They will plug right in and work fine, but you won't have a microphone.

You'll need to find an adapter that splits the 3.5mm 4 pin into a 3.5mm stereo for the headphones, and a 3.5mm mono for the microphone. Then you'll need to find a microphone to plug in, rather than the one included with the helmet speakers. It's by no means a great solution.

BUT... if you main concern is good sounding music, and you don't need to use the microphone, the XBi will work as-is.

 

[Further]

For what it's worth, I have an Xbi, and you don't have to have an adapter to use other headphones. They will plug right in and work fine, but you won't have a microphone.
You'll need to find an adapter that splits the 3.5mm 4 pin into a 3.5mm stereo for the headphones, and a 3.5mm mono for the microphone. Then you'll need to find a microphone to plug in, rather than the one included with the helmet speakers. It's by no means a great solution.

BUT... if you main concern is good sounding music, and you don't need to use the microphone, the XBi will work as-is.

Good to know. That will definitely be handy for those riding solo and just wanting earbuds to a Bluetooth MP3 or a phone.

 

[rfulcher]

No, if it comes down to that, I'll opt to keep it simple and just go with the Chatterbox XBi which seems to be the only intercom which can "share" music between rider/passenger, and which I've just now found out DOES offer an optional headset that allows an earbud plug-in. (It's not offered on their website, but they have it and you can call and order it by phone.)

Sounds like a good option.

 

[Checkswrecks]

We've got a pair of the XBi2 units and my experience is that they work but can be frustrating till sync'd and going.

First, you have to sync twice. Once to the other unit and once to your music source. Total pain if riding shorter hops.

Sound-wise, the XBi2's work great with earplugs, but with speakers are no different than any other speaker I've ever tried, which means that speech is understandable, but music sucks. Hard-wire or bluetooth doesn't matter, it's all about speaker quality and perfect placement, versus being overcome by wind noise. There just is NO comparison and ear buds are the only way to go for music, which the XBi2 does quite well with.

The problem is just what you've found - it's hard to find a good ear bud with mic. I tried JBuds J3M, but the earbuds died and the mic was a problem so I'll take back my initial impression that they seemed to be the answer. Another other problem is that once you have the buds in your ears, how do you put the mic in front of your mouth AND tuck away all the extra wire? More fiddling after syncing. The boom with the jack for the earbuds at CycleGadgets is about as close as I've seen. The alternative that I regularly take is to run stereo by wire to a regular set of Skullcandies, using the speakers just for intercom and BT-phone. But then I'm wired again.

btw - For headsets, we've got the full-face in one helmet and the open face (boom mic) for the other helmet, which is a RF-1000 full face. Both currently are running the stock Chatterbox speakers and they work just the same. The variable is the helmet for which headset is preferable. The open face clips to the side of the helmet and I actually like the boom mic more, as you can easily move it out of the way when not needed. The stock mic and the boom mic are so big, the area in front of your mouth gets crowded and my lip half the time is touching the mic. My Arai Corsair is tighter in the chin bar than the Shoeis and if using the velcro'd mic rather than the open-face boom, I have to install or remove the mic before putting the helmet on or off.

Hope this ramble helps.

Checks

 

[bhick]

So I'm about to pull the trigger on a bike intercom. Either the Sena SMH10 or the Scala G4. Both new. Both high marks on WebBikeWorld reviews.
Problem is, the wife and I are real picky about our music and don't want to even bother with all this unless we can use our great ER6 earphones. For some reason, none of the makers think this should be an issue for anyone, and they don't offer the ability to swap out their in-helmet speakers for earphones. All they'd have to do is make the speakers plug in separately from the mic, via a stereo mini-plug... but nooooo !

Cycle Gadget offers an adapter to make the Chatterbox XBi do this, but I really am drawn to the newer Sena and G4. So I wanna do something scary. I wanna take a wire cutter to the speaker cords of either the Sena or G4, and make my own custom adaptation. And since I'm doin' it, I might as well put both a jack AND a plug in place, so that on short day rides when we don't care about music we can have the simplicity of just using the in-helmet speakers for intercom. But then on trips when we gotta have great tunes, we can swap out for the ER6 earphones. How great would that be?

Here's my problem. I'm no audio tech.! I mean, I'm not an idiot (least not when most people are lookin') I've done some soldering. I'm pretty good with my hands when dealing with pesky little wires, but I really need some advice from someone who KNOWS what they're doin'.

First big question is does someone make a 3.5mm stereo mini jack for do-it-yourselfer's? I know RadioShack makes MONO ones you can pull apart and solder wires to and screw back together, but not sure about STEREO ones, which require 4 leads instead of 2.

For both the Sena and the G4, the speaker wires coming out of the units are individual wires, one for each speaker, (2 leads in each). So the next question is, if they're not color coded, how do I identify which lead is which within each of those 2 wires? If I get the Left/Right speaker reversed it's no big deal to me, but I need to know which are the "hot" wires, or the signal bearing wires, and which of the connectors within the jack I should solder them to.

And any other really brilliant suggestions would be appreciated too, but please don't tell me I'm crazy to screw around like this with expensive elec. equipment... I already KNOW that.

If I'm encouraged and really think I can do this successfully, I'll document it with some photos and write up a "How To". There have GOT to be other folks out there frustrated by the inability of such bike intercoms to use in-ear earphones.

Chris

Chris, I've done car stero for almost 20 years, what I've learned is tripple check stuff be for you jump, risistance values, signal strength (output) really try to match them up. Also look into the J&M's integratr 1v, I have one that I keep in a tank bag I get power from my battery tender cord and put three cig. lighter female plugs in the bag, one for the j&m, one for my garmin with mp3 (nuvi 660) one for the fsr radio for bike to bike. The system workes great and I love it. The fidelty from the speakers is really good and I use ear pluggs too. Plus the guys a j&m have been great to work with. I've had it for about three or four years now when they first came out. Good Luck Bill

 

[Further]

We've got a pair of the XBi2 units and my experience is that they work but can be frustrating till sync'd and going.
First, you have to sync twice. Once to the other unit and once to your music source. Total pain if riding shorter hops.

Sound-wise, the XBi2's work great with earplugs, but with speakers are no different than any other speaker I've ever tried, which means that speech is understandable, but music sucks. Hard-wire or bluetooth doesn't matter, it's all about speaker quality and perfect placement, versus being overcome by wind noise. There just is NO comparison and ear buds are the only way to go for music, which the XBi2 does quite well with.

Thanks, Checks. What you mentioned above about sync irregularities and such was why I first looked to the Sena or the G4. The reviews mostly say these newer units have become pretty bulletproof, and the Sena seems really dead simple and intuitive. Plus, they both have long connection ranges if I'd ever want to have bike-to-bike with a friend with a similar unit, where the XBi (not the XBi2) only has a 33 foot range, so no bike-to-bike. But, both the Sena and the G4 have chosen not to have the "sharing" feature between rider/pillion, like the XBi offers. So I guess I'm stuck. Don't want to wait too much longer to see if something else comes over the horizon. Want to get these in place and checked out before a long Northwest trip this summer.

BTW, when you say that you, "have to sync twice... if riding shorter hops." Does yours not automatically resync itself once you make the orig. sync.? They SAY you should only have to sync. once, then it remembers for the future. Not your experience ?

Chris