Canadian TPS recall on Gen 1's

[Steve G.]

Anybody north of the border done anything about their TPS? https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/7/vrdb...esult&pg=-1 . My '05 is showing signs described in the national recall, my nearest dealer said he'd never heard of it. Any receptive dealers in Metro Vancouver?

Steve

 

[RadioHowie]

Anybody north of the border done anything about their TPS? https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/7/vrdb...esult&pg=-1 . My '05 is showing signs described in the national recall, my nearest dealer said he'd never heard of it. Any receptive dealers in Metro Vancouver?Steve

:dribble:

WOW...the more I read stuff like this, the more I'm coming to believe Canuckian Yammie Dealers are the most obstinate and uncooperative people on the planet!

Down here in the Great Green South, I got my TPS recall notice last year.....and I'm not even the original owner!

Smack him with a hockey stick. He'll understand THAT!

 

[PA1195]

Anybody north of the border done anything about their TPS? https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/7/vrdb...esult&pg=-1 . My '05 is showing signs described in the national recall, my nearest dealer said he'd never heard of it. Any receptive dealers in Metro Vancouver?Steve

Bought parts from these folks, and have had very good parts service: https://www.pacificyamahabmw.com/

Are they the ignorant Dealer you dealt with? Some need a hearing aid, AKA put foot to ass.

Gary in Fairbanks

 

[Bungie]

Mine got the the TPS recall done by the original owner when I purchased the bike from him - in Sudbury Ont.

Oh ya, theirs also a recall for the reflectors on the sidebags.

 

[ionbeam]

I dunno how it works in the Land o' Hockey, but down here in the Un-tied States you call your dealer or drive in and give them your VIN. Good Dealer then types the VIN into their Yamaha linked computer and POP -- out comes a notice to the dealer that your Gen I has an open recall to upgrade your trunk/mounting plate and a recall to replace the TPS. The dealer doesn't need to hear or know anything, the computer will hand-hold him through the process. If your dealer doesn't know enough to do this :dribble: you may want to consider another dealer.

 

[mxvet57]

i must of had mine done almost 2 years ago. when i receved the notace i called the my dealer and they already had one coming for me. when it came in, they called and when i braught the bike in they replaced it wile i waited. just under an hour to do it.

 

[wa2fst]

I had my '04 done at Pacific Yamaha in Richmond, BC...great people. No hassle at all. I called to inquire about the recalls, the service manager asked me for my VIN...which I provided. He checked, said that it was eligible for several recalls, including the TPS replacement, and saddle bag reflectors. Ordered the parts, called me when they came in, booked my appointment, and completed all the work with a minimum of fuss. On time, no charge, no sweat to me. Can't say enough good about them! Great people. :yahoo:

 

[Steve G.]

Thanks for the great info and help. I just got a response back from Yamaha Canada stating that my bike has already been repaired. So, I'll need to have this thing looked at. It's doing exactly what the TPS recall showed as symptoms.

Steve

 

[wa2fst]

I heard a comment quite some time ago in my carreer..."just because new parts look, feel, and smell new doesn't mean they're any better then the ones taken off". In other words, if it failed once it could fail again. I also see from the RM (repair manual), and inspecting my throttle bodies, that there is an adjustment process for the TPS...maybe yours is just out of adjustment.

 

[Newfie Bullet]

Checking the TPS Sensor

This test is done using the Diagnostic screen. How to:

With the key off, press and hold the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously and turn the key on (do not start, just ON), continue to hold the buttons until the display next to the fuel gauge says diAG (5-10 seconds).

Release the two buttons. Now, press the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously again. After ~ 2 seconds the display should show d1:01 on top and a two digit number at the bottom. You are now looking at the throttle position sensor (TPS) output. The TPS value is the two digits at the bottom of the display.

Turning the throttle will change the digits. Normal is 15-17 with the throttle closed and 97 to 100 with the throttle wide open. When the TPS goes bad it can be catastrophic, where the two digit value is just plain wrong and doesn't follow the throttle at all. This could be the TPS, it could be in the harness that connects to the TPS or it could be the ECU.

The other failure mode of the TPS is to have 'dead spots' as the throttle is opened. This is the most common failure and it usually occurs at roughly 20-40% of throttle opening because that is range where the throttle is positioned for most riding. To check this -- very, very slowly open the throttle from full closed to full open and observe that the numbers climb with no skipped numbers and no drop-out readings (e.g. 45, 46, 47, 01, 01, 48, 49) The 01 reading is a 'drop-out'. This failure is almost certainly the TPS.

To leave the diAG mode simply turn the key off. Done.

 

[Steve G.]

Checking the TPS Sensor
This test is done using the Diagnostic screen. How to:

With the key off, press and hold the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously and turn the key on (do not start, just ON), continue to hold the buttons until the display next to the fuel gauge says diAG (5-10 seconds).

Release the two buttons. Now, press the "Select" and "Reset" buttons simultaneously again. After ~ 2 seconds the display should show d1:01 on top and a two digit number at the bottom. You are now looking at the throttle position sensor (TPS) output. The TPS value is the two digits at the bottom of the display.

Turning the throttle will change the digits. Normal is 15-17 with the throttle closed and 97 to 100 with the throttle wide open. When the TPS goes bad it can be catastrophic, where the two digit value is just plain wrong and doesn't follow the throttle at all. This could be the TPS, it could be in the harness that connects to the TPS or it could be the ECU.

The other failure mode of the TPS is to have 'dead spots' as the throttle is opened. This is the most common failure and it usually occurs at roughly 20-40% of throttle opening because that is range where the throttle is positioned for most riding. To check this -- very, very slowly open the throttle from full closed to full open and observe that the numbers climb with no skipped numbers and no drop-out readings (e.g. 45, 46, 47, 01, 01, 48, 49) The 01 reading is a 'drop-out'. This failure is almost certainly the TPS.

To leave the diAG mode simply turn the key off. Done.

Awesome info, thank very much. I'm going to check it now.

Steve

 

[ionbeam]

Checking the TPS Sensor...

Newfie Bullet, I couldn't have said it better myself.

To which I will add this excerpt from another post about my TPS:

Last fall I had one hot running incident that caused me to shorten up a ride with HERJR because of bucking and lack of throttle response, after that episode it ran just fine. Early this spring I had another episode of buck/fart/misfire. About 6 weeks ago Feejer started to regularly be unpleasant when hot, exhibiting misfiring at some cruising speeds. Starting a few weeks ago it would sometimes become intolerant of slight throttle openings at idle. The symptoms occurred when very hot, >3 bars and radiator fan cycling on/off.

After a bad ride I checked the diAG screen but there were no codes set. I checked the values of all the sensors including the TPS and found nothing wrong. I was concerned about the delay between the misfiring and when I checked the TPS. Next time I experienced misfiring I pulled over and immediately shut down and invoked the diAG screen. Every thing was within spec. After restarting bikie it ran well. Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

Wellhell, time to get serious. This past weekend I pulled off the filler ring assembly (procedure here) and found an amazing pile of road spooge that I cleaned out. I dissembled the ring and verified all vent passages were clear. I checked all hoses under the gas tank for pinching and obstruction. No problems found. A test ride quickly showed no cure. No surprise.

It becomes a bit more tricky to troubleshoot when everything passes the diAG test because those are the operating values that the ECU makes its calculations from. I did a bit of studying with the FSM and came up with a list of things to check.

Among the sensors, the TPS, atmospheric pressure sensor (here after APS) and intake manifold pressure sensor (IPS) were high on the suspect list. The pressure sensors include a integrated circuit (IC) that performs temperature compensation and linearization of signals. ICs don't tolerate heat well so they became suspects. Both atmosphere and intake sensors are the exact same part(!). I pulled them and verified that the sensor opening was not obstructed. DO NOT POKE ANYTHING IN THE SENSOR HOLE! DO NOT SQUIRT AN AEROSOL SPRAY IN THE HOLE! The active part of the sensor is very delicate. The APS operates over a very small range so it is unlikely to be a problem, the IPS has a wide dynamic range and it also bakes under the tank making it a likely suspect. Since the sensors are the same I swapped them to see if the problem was either cured or changed. A test ride quickly showed no change, no cure.

Next --- > I used my fuel pressure gauge and mity-vac to test the fuel pressure regulator. No problem. At least at room temperature. I put a Tee on the intake manifold vacuum line that controls the fuel pressure regulator, ran a vacuum line up to the dash and put on a vacuum gauge. Ride time. Upon misfire it was clear that the change in manifold vacuum was a consequence of the misfire and not a leading cause. This pretty much lets out the fuel injectors, fuel pump and pressure regulator. This is the first time that I started to really consider that the problem might be electrical ignition.

Next --- > Even though the TPS has worked in all previous testing I couldn't rule it out. At this point I had a faint recollection that the problem suddenly became worse after taking all the play out of the throttle cable. Hmmm... I pulled the connector, checked voltages, ohmed the unit at ambient temps and cleaned the filthy sensor. All normal. I back-probed the connector, ran wires up to the dash and Velcroed my cheapie DMM to the dash and went for a ride with Good Pillion™ installed. Three bars, fan cycled on, 35 mph BUCK, FART, MISFIRE. Whoa baby, did you see what the DMM showed?!?! Next glitch, DMM showed a major TPS drop-out. By this point I noted that the drop-outs always occur between .775 and .778 volts. I could ride anyplace around that particular range and had no problems. Deliberate operation in that range caused TPS drop out and the beginnings of Pillion hammering on my helmet to stop doing that. Back in the driveway I checked my light throttle problem at idle and it was plain to see the TPS drop out. As soon as everything cooled a bit the TPS worked normally again.

 

[RadioHowie]

Checking the TPS Sensor...

Newfie Bullet, I couldn't have said it better myself.

To which I will add this excerpt from another post about my TPS:

Last fall I had one hot running incident that caused me to shorten up a ride with HERJR because of bucking and lack of throttle response, after that episode it ran just fine. Early this spring I had another episode of buck/fart/misfire. About 6 weeks ago Feejer started to regularly be unpleasant when hot, exhibiting misfiring at some cruising speeds. Starting a few weeks ago it would sometimes become intolerant of slight throttle openings at idle. The symptoms occurred when very hot, >3 bars and radiator fan cycling on/off.

After a bad ride I checked the diAG screen but there were no codes set. I checked the values of all the sensors including the TPS and found nothing wrong. I was concerned about the delay between the misfiring and when I checked the TPS. Next time I experienced misfiring I pulled over and immediately shut down and invoked the diAG screen. Every thing was within spec. After restarting bikie it ran well. Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

Wellhell, time to get serious. This past weekend I pulled off the filler ring assembly (procedure here) and found an amazing pile of road spooge that I cleaned out. I dissembled the ring and verified all vent passages were clear. I checked all hoses under the gas tank for pinching and obstruction. No problems found. A test ride quickly showed no cure. No surprise.

It becomes a bit more tricky to troubleshoot when everything passes the diAG test because those are the operating values that the ECU makes its calculations from. I did a bit of studying with the FSM and came up with a list of things to check.

Among the sensors, the TPS, atmospheric pressure sensor (here after APS) and intake manifold pressure sensor (IPS) were high on the suspect list. The pressure sensors include a integrated circuit (IC) that performs temperature compensation and linearization of signals. ICs don't tolerate heat well so they became suspects. Both atmosphere and intake sensors are the exact same part(!). I pulled them and verified that the sensor opening was not obstructed. DO NOT POKE ANYTHING IN THE SENSOR HOLE! DO NOT SQUIRT AN AEROSOL SPRAY IN THE HOLE! The active part of the sensor is very delicate. The APS operates over a very small range so it is unlikely to be a problem, the IPS has a wide dynamic range and it also bakes under the tank making it a likely suspect. Since the sensors are the same I swapped them to see if the problem was either cured or changed. A test ride quickly showed no change, no cure.

Next --- > I used my fuel pressure gauge and mity-vac to test the fuel pressure regulator. No problem. At least at room temperature. I put a Tee on the intake manifold vacuum line that controls the fuel pressure regulator, ran a vacuum line up to the dash and put on a vacuum gauge. Ride time. Upon misfire it was clear that the change in manifold vacuum was a consequence of the misfire and not a leading cause. This pretty much lets out the fuel injectors, fuel pump and pressure regulator. This is the first time that I started to really consider that the problem might be electrical ignition.

Next --- > Even though the TPS has worked in all previous testing I couldn't rule it out. At this point I had a faint recollection that the problem suddenly became worse after taking all the play out of the throttle cable. Hmmm... I pulled the connector, checked voltages, ohmed the unit at ambient temps and cleaned the filthy sensor. All normal. I back-probed the connector, ran wires up to the dash and Velcroed my cheapie DMM to the dash and went for a ride with Good Pillion™ installed. Three bars, fan cycled on, 35 mph BUCK, FART, MISFIRE. Whoa baby, did you see what the DMM showed?!?! Next glitch, DMM showed a major TPS drop-out. By this point I noted that the drop-outs always occur between .775 and .778 volts. I could ride anyplace around that particular range and had no problems. Deliberate operation in that range caused TPS drop out and the beginnings of Pillion hammering on my helmet to stop doing that. Back in the driveway I checked my light throttle problem at idle and it was plain to see the TPS drop out. As soon as everything cooled a bit the TPS worked normally again.

Alan,

Two months ago, this entire post would have resulted in a "HUH?!?!" moment. But these days, it ALL makes perfect sense. However,

.....Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

THAT'S some serious multitasking right there! One hand on the ignition switch...one hand on the mode buttons.... :blink:

What the hell were you steering with? Wait...I don't wanna know!

 

[ionbeam]

...Two months ago, this entire post would have resulted in a "HUH?!?!" moment. But these days, it ALL makes perfect sense. However,

.....Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

THAT'S some serious multitasking right there! One hand on the ignition switch...one hand on the mode buttons.... :blink:

What the hell were you steering with? Wait...I don't wanna know!

Would you think less of me if I confessed that I wasn't on a public road when I did this? It's amazing what you can do on the old access roads and closed runways at Pease International Tradeport. I had acres of nothing to work with!

 

[RadioHowie]

...Two months ago, this entire post would have resulted in a "HUH?!?!" moment. But these days, it ALL makes perfect sense. However,

.....Next time it happened I shut off the key while going ~35 mph and entered diAG and ran tests while coasting down and found nothing out of spec.

THAT'S some serious multitasking right there! One hand on the ignition switch...one hand on the mode buttons.... :blink:

What the hell were you steering with? Wait...I don't wanna know!

Would you think less of me if I confessed that I wasn't on a public road when I did this? It's amazing what you can do on the old access roads and closed runways at Pease International Tradeport. I had acres of nothing to work with!

Whewwwww.....my hat's off to ya.

I was imagining you haulin' ass down I-93, dodging cages, steering with your knees.

 

[Steve G.]

Well, my TPS seems ok, if the diag system is to be trusted. It shows from 15 to 100, with no interuptions anywhere. I think it's time I got aquainted with this bike [owned it 2 wks], and hook it up to my syncronizer.

Again, thanks for the great diag help.

Steve

 

[dakota11]

I had my Total Piece of Shit replaced last week. It started hesitating when hot. I had opened up the air box the week before. I picked the bike up from Powersports of Greenville the same day and Wooomeow!

 

[Bustanut joker]

Anybody north of the border done anything about their TPS? https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/saf-sec-sur/7/vrdb...esult&pg=-1 . My '05 is showing signs described in the national recall, my nearest dealer said he'd never heard of it. Any receptive dealers in Metro Vancouver?Steve

:dribble:

WOW...the more I read stuff like this, the more I'm coming to believe Canuckian Yammie Dealers are the most obstinate and uncooperative people on the planet!

Down here in the Great Green South, I got my TPS recall notice last year.....and I'm not even the original owner!

Smack him with a hockey stick. He'll understand THAT!

I've gotten Two of them thar requests since November. Called 'em and said I wasn't trailer'n the bitch in, 'twasn't made in 'merica I'll see ya when it's warm.

Suppose I better make a call this week.

:jester: