Cardo Packtalk Bold - Testing in progress!
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draco_1967
Well-known member
The Bold has improved voice command functions over the regular PackTalk. Otherwise, they function the same.
So, Australians and Brits should just buy the regular unit and the rest of us should buy the Bold?
I think I would miss the morning "Sena Dance" pairing ritual if I bought a Cardo. I was trying to pair (again) to a buddy at a rally recently and his unit connected to someone on the other side of the campground who also was trying to pair to someone standing right beside him. Sena is second only to Garmin for sheer obstinacy.
I think I would miss the morning "Sena Dance" pairing ritual if I bought a Cardo. I was trying to pair (again) to a buddy at a rally recently and his unit connected to someone on the other side of the campground who also was trying to pair to someone standing right beside him. Sena is second only to Garmin for sheer obstinacy.
The Cardo Packtalk Slim is the same as the bold but does have some advantages. This video is a funny comparison of the communication devices from each company.
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John d
Well-known member
^^^Good stuff there. It's not often a retailer tells it like it is, no holds barred.
Ryan F9 is a great resource. He can be very vocal about things he doesn't like. His comments on the Klim Adventure Air Jacket were hilarious...
bigjohnsd
2021 BMW R1250GSA
A pair at the Minimum Advertised Price is $492. There are some deals out there. Check with Alex at BHMoto
bigjohnsd
2021 BMW R1250GSA
Talking with the Cardo Guru today. The mesh will handle 15 units. Each of those 15 in the mesh can also pair with another non-Cardo or Cardo non-mesh capable unit,each individual unit can then participate in the mesh. Therefore it is theoretically possible to have a group of 30 riders all in one integrated conversation. I can't imagine riding in a group of thirty, nor can I imagine trying to get a word in edgewise in such a group.
TomTom Rider paired easily, GPS directions come in over music and intercom. Seamless.
TomTom Rider paired easily, GPS directions come in over music and intercom. Seamless.
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
After three years (? I forget stuff) of headset ownership, I can vouch for how much they generate wind noise. Next purchase will put low-profile high on the list of desirable features.
No side-tone is a deal breaker, plain, simple, plain and simple, and simple and plain. I agree that some folks don't like it. The SMH-10 was miserable (for me, anyway) without it. Wind noise crowding out what's being said? At least I know about, and can do something about it. An SMH-10-using friend hasn't a clue on that.
Overall, I'm surprised about all of the negative comments about the 20S. Mine is "plug and play". Charge it up, put it on the mount, and go riding. The better part of a day spent on an Interstate in pouring rain didn't do anything to it. There are things I wish Sena would address but the 20S is now old news. The 20S EVO doesn't do enough to warrant replacing the 20S. The 30whatever seems to be a near train wreck by most accounts. My biggest gripe is with Sena. They don't listen to customer reports, or at least Sena doesn't respond on their forum. Support ranges from utterly clueless and unwilling to use common sense to has a clue, has some sense, and listens. Sena has scattered themselves over the entire "if it wears a helmet, we've got a device for it". "Jack of all trades, master of none."
If I were starting from scratch, I'd certainly check out other stuff. At the time I bought the SMH-10 IMHO it was the best game in town.
Overall, I'm surprised about all of the negative comments about the 20S. Mine is "plug and play". Charge it up, put it on the mount, and go riding. The better part of a day spent on an Interstate in pouring rain didn't do anything to it. There are things I wish Sena would address but the 20S is now old news. The 20S EVO doesn't do enough to warrant replacing the 20S. The 30whatever seems to be a near train wreck by most accounts. My biggest gripe is with Sena. They don't listen to customer reports, or at least Sena doesn't respond on their forum. Support ranges from utterly clueless and unwilling to use common sense to has a clue, has some sense, and listens. Sena has scattered themselves over the entire "if it wears a helmet, we've got a device for it". "Jack of all trades, master of none."
If I were starting from scratch, I'd certainly check out other stuff. At the time I bought the SMH-10 IMHO it was the best game in town.
Without a doubt, Ryan F9 is among the reviewers I trust the most. Occasionally he'll say something that leaves me scratching my head, but 90+% of the time he's got it covered. The Cardo v. Sena video is among the "Please! no more! I'll pop my surgery stitches from laughing too hard!" episodes. His piece about DOT v. Snell v. ECE should be required viewing for any rider.
erixun
My helmet is on too tight....
I stand corrected on the price - for two that is not that bad... I just did a quick search and did NOT read the details like a *******. I think I will let you beat some up a bit, and then pick your brain on whether I will upgrade.. but I am a gadget nerd, so I probably will do it before the Sena dies.
Going back to Ryan F9 (what is his last name??), the Cardo Slim (name? two part gizmo) caught my attention. OTOH, if there's no side tone, party over.
Whoops! Above comment withdrawn. I just looked at a Cardo video for the new (Mar. '18) FW 4.0. Keep in mind Ryan F9's comments about button pushing while watching this.
That's enough to send me back to my 20S with renewed interest. I rarely have to do much button pushing save for music stop/start, forward/back one track, volume, and making a speedial call. Voice command "music" starts/stops, "next" or "previous" change tracks, "speeddial 1,2,3" does the calling. IMNSHO, pull over for more complex calling - smacking a guardrail while dialing for pizza usually ruins paint jobs, and may delay picking up the pizza... Pairing can be done by voice but see above re: ordering pizza.
Volume: twist the big knob. Answer a call - use VOX Phone (VOX = "voice control") to answer (tried it, don't like it) or push the button on the back of the mount (awkward but works). One other goodie: push the button on the bottom of the mount twice and an internal mic picks up what's going on outside of your helmet. "Ambient mode" while moving isn't recommended (well, duh).
As per Ryan F9 (from whom all wisdom flows), the 20S/EVO mount is secure. Push, click, done. Pushing the release while riding or wearing gloves is a challenge; the button is "hidden" on the mount by the bottom of the 20S.
20S' and rain. Having opened up an SMH-10 (DIY battery replacement), there are a bunch of seals that mean business. Having seen a video about doing the same on the 20S, there's little change in seals past having different shapes. The charging connector (microUSB - any charger works here) lives inside the 20S, with a gummy "stuff it in" cover. Leave it open in the wet and it's anyone's guess as to what will happen. Close it up and all should be well. (side note: "My ambient mic doesn't work!!" "Did you open the charger port cover?" "Oops - now it works")
20S and sidetone, it's an option in the voice command and app access to setup.
Life with corporate Sena sucks. It has, it does, and almost certainly always will.
I like the Cardo two-piece thingy. Mr. Red Flannel's remarks about the less complex Cardos seem reasonable to me. But all of that button pushing to do almost anything? On a mount that's too quick to release (with no "leash")? And no sidetone (thought it'd be mentioned in the V4.0 video)? I changed my mind. I like my 20S after all.
(I didn't mean to turn this into a mini-20S review, but it happened. Life's like that... [/ grin ])
That's enough to send me back to my 20S with renewed interest. I rarely have to do much button pushing save for music stop/start, forward/back one track, volume, and making a speedial call. Voice command "music" starts/stops, "next" or "previous" change tracks, "speeddial 1,2,3" does the calling. IMNSHO, pull over for more complex calling - smacking a guardrail while dialing for pizza usually ruins paint jobs, and may delay picking up the pizza... Pairing can be done by voice but see above re: ordering pizza.
Volume: twist the big knob. Answer a call - use VOX Phone (VOX = "voice control") to answer (tried it, don't like it) or push the button on the back of the mount (awkward but works). One other goodie: push the button on the bottom of the mount twice and an internal mic picks up what's going on outside of your helmet. "Ambient mode" while moving isn't recommended (well, duh).
As per Ryan F9 (from whom all wisdom flows), the 20S/EVO mount is secure. Push, click, done. Pushing the release while riding or wearing gloves is a challenge; the button is "hidden" on the mount by the bottom of the 20S.
20S' and rain. Having opened up an SMH-10 (DIY battery replacement), there are a bunch of seals that mean business. Having seen a video about doing the same on the 20S, there's little change in seals past having different shapes. The charging connector (microUSB - any charger works here) lives inside the 20S, with a gummy "stuff it in" cover. Leave it open in the wet and it's anyone's guess as to what will happen. Close it up and all should be well. (side note: "My ambient mic doesn't work!!" "Did you open the charger port cover?" "Oops - now it works")
20S and sidetone, it's an option in the voice command and app access to setup.
Life with corporate Sena sucks. It has, it does, and almost certainly always will.
I like the Cardo two-piece thingy. Mr. Red Flannel's remarks about the less complex Cardos seem reasonable to me. But all of that button pushing to do almost anything? On a mount that's too quick to release (with no "leash")? And no sidetone (thought it'd be mentioned in the V4.0 video)? I changed my mind. I like my 20S after all.
(I didn't mean to turn this into a mini-20S review, but it happened. Life's like that... [/ grin ])
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bigjohnsd
2021 BMW R1250GSA
The Video you have posted is for the previous generation "Packtalk" the unit we have and are testing is the "Packtalk Bold" big differences, one being revolutionary voice command functionality, or in other words, no button pushing while underway. "Hey Cardo change channel" "Hey Cardo next track" Hey Google, Hey Siri, etc, etc, etc. See the following for details on "Natural Voice Commands"
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The Bold handles access to voice commands better than Sena (handles voice commands full time, but the "wakeup" phrase only works in standby (no voice, no music, no GPS - just waiting, powered up), otherwise, pop the button at the bottom of the mount for "say a command". Snaps to Cardo for making voice command active all the time. NTL no sidetone, no deal. Given all of the work put into the product, I don't understand why they're not supporting it.
draco_1967
Well-known member
For those of you who had no problems with the 20s: did you ever connect to more than 1 other rider? When it was just me and 1 buddy, we were golden. The sound was crisp and the connection never dropped. Start adding additional people, and the connection gets worse and worse.
Otherwise, the 20s was fine. it handled calls and music well. It does not work with Google Assistant, but seemed fine with Siri for my Apple friends. We went through some PNW rainy days, and only had one unit that stopped working until it dried out (he had the headphone port open to use ear buds).
But we bought the 20s to connect to a group of 4-6 riders, and it was horrible at that. Static, popping, dropped connections all plagued a day riding with the 20s. When those days are 7-14 hours of riding, that gets old. The Cardo, while imperfect, is so much better at group intercom.
Otherwise, the 20s was fine. it handled calls and music well. It does not work with Google Assistant, but seemed fine with Siri for my Apple friends. We went through some PNW rainy days, and only had one unit that stopped working until it dried out (he had the headphone port open to use ear buds).
But we bought the 20s to connect to a group of 4-6 riders, and it was horrible at that. Static, popping, dropped connections all plagued a day riding with the 20s. When those days are 7-14 hours of riding, that gets old. The Cardo, while imperfect, is so much better at group intercom.
You're right, I can't speak to multiple riders (no pun intended). Obviously, if group rides is a major reason for having any comms system, and the 20S can't do it, then it's not a good choice. I don't (verges on "won't) do group rides, so it's a non-issue for me. It works well when I do ride with a friend who still has an SMH-10. I've got more features than he does but the job, comms, works as expected. Maybe the 20S EVO or 30K does group comms better?
I don't have an iPhone, so Siri is a non-issue for me. Using Maps and Google Assistant at the same time is essentially a train wreck. Sometimes one app answers, sometimes the other, but's that's a Google/Android issue. The 20S doesn't get in the way.
I don't recall if Ryan F9 says it explicitly, but it does appear that Sena is slipping behind on the basic job, and spending more time on helmets and supporting different helmet types. As I've said, ironically customer-Sena comms appear to be almost non-existent. Otherwise listening to customers might move development in a more competitive direction.
All of that said, I still like the 20S, and Cardo still fails on sidetone (yes, it matters that much to me). For someone who rides alone or with, at most, a couple of riders, I'll still recommend the 20S. But recommend looking for a deal on eBay, etc.
I'm puzzled by the "don't like it, don't want it" response to sidetone. I found some research into sidetone use with telephones (smart, wireless, or wired). By a large majority, users found that not having sidetone was very undesirable. As someone here said, it leads to "can you hear me now", and speaking louder than is warranted. The phones seemed to be "dead". I found that to be the same case with the SMH-10. The feedback from sidetone matters.
Side comment about mounts. The SMH-10 mount uses a tab, long enough to be springy, to hold the unit in place. Looking at the Cardo mount Ryan F9 showed, I'd be equally nervous about "one wrong push and bye-bye". I tried making a "leash" for it, but couldn't make it work. The problem was attaching a thin stainless steel fishing leader to the back of the SMH-10. A thin guitar pick with a hole in it fit in the available space. Finding an effective adhesive was the problem - nothing I tried made a good bond. I wonder if anyone tried the same thing with a Cardo device? I get that the Bold voice commands make button-pushing irrelevant.
ADDED: Since the Bold functions by voice, there's little chance of a button push releasing the catch by mistake.
I emailed Cardo about sidetone - I'll report whatever comes back from them.
I don't have an iPhone, so Siri is a non-issue for me. Using Maps and Google Assistant at the same time is essentially a train wreck. Sometimes one app answers, sometimes the other, but's that's a Google/Android issue. The 20S doesn't get in the way.
I don't recall if Ryan F9 says it explicitly, but it does appear that Sena is slipping behind on the basic job, and spending more time on helmets and supporting different helmet types. As I've said, ironically customer-Sena comms appear to be almost non-existent. Otherwise listening to customers might move development in a more competitive direction.
All of that said, I still like the 20S, and Cardo still fails on sidetone (yes, it matters that much to me). For someone who rides alone or with, at most, a couple of riders, I'll still recommend the 20S. But recommend looking for a deal on eBay, etc.
I'm puzzled by the "don't like it, don't want it" response to sidetone. I found some research into sidetone use with telephones (smart, wireless, or wired). By a large majority, users found that not having sidetone was very undesirable. As someone here said, it leads to "can you hear me now", and speaking louder than is warranted. The phones seemed to be "dead". I found that to be the same case with the SMH-10. The feedback from sidetone matters.
Side comment about mounts. The SMH-10 mount uses a tab, long enough to be springy, to hold the unit in place. Looking at the Cardo mount Ryan F9 showed, I'd be equally nervous about "one wrong push and bye-bye". I tried making a "leash" for it, but couldn't make it work. The problem was attaching a thin stainless steel fishing leader to the back of the SMH-10. A thin guitar pick with a hole in it fit in the available space. Finding an effective adhesive was the problem - nothing I tried made a good bond. I wonder if anyone tried the same thing with a Cardo device? I get that the Bold voice commands make button-pushing irrelevant.
ADDED: Since the Bold functions by voice, there's little chance of a button push releasing the catch by mistake.
I emailed Cardo about sidetone - I'll report whatever comes back from them.
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bigjohnsd
2021 BMW R1250GSA
RBEmerson - I miss the sidetone, but so far the other benefits of Quiet Cardo Operation and voice command functionality easily outweigh any Sena 20S capabilities and i have about 50,000 miles on my 20S which is now on the shelf.
We agree on bikes, but, for now, not on intercoms. Goodness knows when I'll ever get to Spearfish, but if I do, I'll bring the beer and then we can compare notes on Cardo v. 20S. 
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