Court Strikes Down Illinois Ban on Concealed Carry

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Gonna be interesting to see how this doesn't become politically divisive and people keep it genuinely about FJRs.....
jerry.gif


 
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I hope when they write the law they recognize permits from other states. Now if California would recognize out of state permits I would be real happy. I think I got the rest of them pretty well covered except a couple on the east coast and so.carolina. Adding FJR content. Gen I rules.

 
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It aint over yet kids.

Gonna be interesting to see how this doesn't become politically divisive and people keep it about FJRs.....
jerry.gif
To keep on topic...

Does that mean I can pack while riding my FJR thru Illinois? If so, where's the best place to have it on the scoot?

OK, someone elses turn to keep this in scope.

 
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The articles states they have 180 days to draft a CPL law. So the existing regulations remain intact until that time - until then (adding fjr specific content) you will need to keep track of where your CPL is recognized and where it is not. I need to find out if a G26 will fit in the FJR glove box - anyone one know first hand??

 
Here's the Court's opinion:

https://michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Shepard-v.-Madigan_Opinion-Reversed-and-Remanded_12.11.12.pdf

Good stuff, IMO. Background is that the US Supreme Court has decided (in Heller) that the basis of the Second Amendment is an individual right of self defense. The question presented in this case was essentially whether that constitutional right of self defense with deadly force with a firearm is only afforded to a citizen when he/she is within one's own home (or at least, on one's own property). The court of appeals ruled that the right is not that limited, remanded the case to the lower court, and gave the Illinois legislature 180 days to craft a new law with reasonable restrictions on outside the home carry.**

This one seems to have a good chance of being appealed for decision to the USSC again -- it's the next logical question from what they've decided in Heller and McDonald. (Holding that there is an individual constitutional right of self defense in Heller, and then in McDonald, incorporating that right to apply not only to D.C. and the federal government, but also to the states.) What was the intent of the drafters of the Second Amendment regarding its scope if self defense was their touch-stone? And what kind of limitations on carry outside the home are permitted without running afoul of the Second Amendment rights it affords citizens?

There are two joined cases here (Moore and Shepard). The intriguing fact is that in Shepard, the plaintiff was an 83 year old woman and church treasurer who was assaulted and badly injured (as was her companion) outside her home by a 245 lb. man with a violent past. She was experienced with guns, a CCW holder in Florida and Utah, but was precluded from carrying outside her home in Illinois by the blanket prohibition on carry outside the home.

** In other words, assuming that any further appeals yield a similar result, and the Illinois legislature crafts a new law as directed (permitting outside the home carry with reasonable restrictions), it's likely that a CCW law will one day be in place. That will probably not give non-Illinois citizens the right to carry in Illinois unless the new Illinois law allows reciprocal rights to other states' CCW holders, or they simply permit concealed carry without a permit, as a handful of states have done. I wouldn't count on that last situation, or on reciprocity (I'm just following the observations of the court itself in the opinion, that Illinois is not a known as a terribly gun friendly state, NOT trying to start a political argument -- please). So legally carrying concealed and loaded while riding your FJR through Illinois without an Illinois CCW (which appears to one day be available at least to Illinois citizens) isn't likely.

 
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I haven't lived in Illinois for quite a while, but when I was living there you could transport a firearm unloaded and in a locked case. Kinda silly, just like silly noise. I wish I could have ridden my FJR through Illinois today but it was too cold.

 
Since I live in Illinois, whenever a bad person (with a knife...poking it at me) comes up next to my FJR and tries to steal it...I tell them to stop it. Please. Bad! Bad!

That usually works in Wheaton.

 
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There are two joined cases here (Moore and Shepard). The intriguing fact is that in Shepard, the plaintiff was an 83 year old woman and church treasurer who was assaulted and badly injured (as was her companion) outside her home by a 245 lb. man with a violent past. She was experienced with guns, a CCW holder in Florida and Utah, but was precluded from carrying outside her home in Illinois by the blanket prohibition on carry outside the home.
I'm glad the Shepard lady has the resources and the gumption to take this thru the courts.

She can ride ***** on my FJR anytime!

 
There are two joined cases here (Moore and Shepard). The intriguing fact is that in Shepard, the plaintiff was an 83 year old woman and church treasurer who was assaulted and badly injured (as was her companion) outside her home by a 245 lb. man with a violent past. She was experienced with guns, a CCW holder in Florida and Utah, but was precluded from carrying outside her home in Illinois by the blanket prohibition on carry outside the home.
I'm glad the Shepard lady has the resources and the gumption to take this thru the courts.

She can ride ***** on my FJR anytime!
Oh she does, she's backed by the NRA. I read that in another article online. They just need a person to file the suit so to speak, the NRA has the big guns (pun for sure!) behind her.

BTW - I don't believe my bike would run well with bullet holes in the motor.

FJR

FJR

FJR

 
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The articles states they have 180 days to draft a CPL law. So the existing regulations remain intact until that time - until then (adding fjr specific content) you will need to keep track of where your CPL is recognized and where it is not. I need to find out if a G26 will fit in the FJR glove box - anyone one know first hand??
It won't fit without a mod you can cut a hole on the bottom for the barrel to point down, I would have a closed cover so not to expose the barrel to crap comming through the front. I plan on getting another CPL from Utah, it will cover several states. I use a BlackHawk Serpa pancake holster for my G23, easy to take on and off with out removing my belt. I would not store my firearm on the FJR, unless I'm going through a state that do not allow conceal carry.

 
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While riding your FJR of course, right gents?

Stay on topic peeps.... I really want to see a valid discourse here...

 
Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............

 
Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............
Right.

I'm going to dust off my little S&W airweight just in case something comes of this,

and it will fit in the FJR's glove box.

 
Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............
The boss said in the second post to keep it about FJR's that's why.

 
Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............
The boss said in the second post to keep it about FJR's that's why.
I know. Sometimes I don't get him. Well, MOST of the time I don't get him.

 
Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............

Well, I for one don't understand. Why does this have to have FJR content? It's 'Completely Off Topic Discussion'. As long as it doesn't get political............
The boss said in the second post to keep it about FJR's that's why.
I know. Sometimes I don't get him. Well, MOST of the time I don't get him.
:rofl: My work is done here!

Now then, back to guns and FJR's.

Personally, I find that when I mount the 50 cal on the front of my FJR I need new heavier fork springs AND the middle bushing *does* wear faster than the oil corrodes the high speed valving stack and the rear tire lasts 20.358% longer, depending, of course, upon how many belts of ammo the 50 cal is carrying... :rofl:

 
Procrastinating this rainy morning, and this issue fascinates me, so after reading the opinion a couple times, here's a few thoughts on what I think its real effect may be -- intended only to lay out an educated guess on where this issue may be headed next (for Illinois and other states with CCW restriction issues). Nothing political intended and I won't argue about preferred results. I just think that there's more to this case than first meets the eye re: the line of Second Amendment cases following Heller. This one is going to be worth watching to see the eventual result, and the effect it has on other pending Second Amendment litigation. (There are a couple such California cases I'm following.)

Justice Posner, who wrote this opinion, has previously published his philosophical disagreements with the U.S. Supreme Court's Heller decision, so his having taken this position has puzzled some commentators a bit. OTOH, he's apparently a good judge -- bound by the controlling Supreme Court precedent, he decided the issue according to his reading of that precedent, regardless of his personal differences on how that precedential case should have been decided by the Supreme Court.

Let me digress a minute for a critical bit of jurisprudential procedure. Normally, an appellate court writing an opinion that will serve as precedent strives NOT to decide any more than it need decide to resolve the case before it on the facts of that case alone. The primary reason for this restraint is the very real fear of doing more harm than good, via unintended consequences, in the cases that will follow the precedent they are laying down (very typically with some unforeseen twist that might not have been apparent from the facts of the case they are deciding). That is especially so in the case of deciding constitutional questions, as opposed to lesser legal issues. That's why the Heller case didn't tell us what restrictions on Second Amendment rights would be constitutionally permissible.

As another aside, it's interesting that the Court here (Moore and Shepard) decided that the Illinois blanket prohibition was facially unconstitutional (i.e., in all cases) rather than only as applied (i.e., on the specific facts applicable to the plaintiffs in this case). That's at least party due to the fact that the appeals of these 2 joined cases were from dismissals, but it is a little unusual -- again, due to the concern about unintended consequences in saying that in every case, the blanket prohibition would be an unconstitutional abridgment of a constitutional right. Yet the opinion does exactly that and then gets into whether countervailing interests (the reasonableness or unreasonableness of legislated restrictions designed to safeguard the public's interest in health, safety and welfare) are sufficient to warrant legislated restriction of the constitutional right to armed self defense outside the home under the Second Amendment. Except that Illinois has NO restrictions to evaluate, because their tactic was a blanket prohibition (the only state to do so). THAT is what Posner finds unconstitutional -- the blanket approach in lieu of reasonably restricted access.

In his opinion, Justice Posner specifically mentions that courts that have addressed the Heller precedent have declined to get into how broadly it is to be applied -- e.g., what are reasonable restrictions on its exercise? He understands the reasons for that reticence, then says that however uncomfortable it may be, the Heller and McDonald opinions have invited that inquiry as necessary for the guidance of society. He all but expressly invites the U.S. Supreme Court to take this case to decide that issue. And this after going on for pages about Illinois' non-existent scheme of restriction (blanket prohibition) and his ultimate direction (and 180 day stay) that the legislature enact a law with "reasonable restrictions". Hmmmm.

IMHO, he's moved this beyond the issue of whether there is a constitutionally protected right to armed self defense outside the home (yes, there is, he says), and straight to the issue of what are "reasonable restrictions" on that right. And for constitutional lawyers, the other issue he thus raises (very likely the determining factor) is "what standard of review will be applied in assessing the constitutionality of such restrictions?" Is it to be the strict or intermediate scrutiny normally applied to the abridgment of constitutionally protected rights, or maybe the lower rational basis standard more often used to test the validity of legislation aimed at protecting the health, safety and welfare of the public (e.g., traffic laws or the prohibition of IED building as a hobby)? Note that he approvingly cites the NY CCW law's requirement of an affirmative showing by the applicant of "good cause" (similar to California, BTW) as an avenue to explore in crafting the reasonable restrictions he gave the Illinois legislature 180 days to come up with. He's basically told them how to build their statute for the purpose of surviving the next challenge (and avoiding the USSC using the appeal of this case to affirm outside the home armed self defense while again dodging the issue of what restrictions are permissible).

While Justice Posner has moved the Second Amendment right to armed self defense forward to recognize the right outside the home, I think he's given a little to both sides and pushed the Supreme Court a step closer to giving constitutional guidance about what kinds of restrictions on CCW are constitutionally permissible and which are not.

Gonna a be interesting to see what what comes out of Springfield after this.
No ****, Karl!!!

 
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