De-linking the '06?

[BugR]

Without giving away my age, this thread reminds me of when electroic ignition was first introduced in about 1975. Prior to that, almost everything, 2 and 4 wheels, had points and condensor. I remember that many owners (mostly of cars/trucks but some motorcycles) had the electronic distributors converted back to points. This way every 3000 miles they had to be adjusted and the engine still had same cold-starting problems experienced for the last 75 years.
Yamaha is doing us all a favor by providing ABS and even linked brakes. 95% of street riders will stop in a shorter distance with this technology. Sure the braking distance numbers published in MCN or other magazines for ABS/Linked brakes are slightly longer than conventional braking systems but that is because the "tester" knows how to stop (on dry, clean pavement) with out locking up the front/rear tires.

I spent many sessions with MCN in the CA desert working the radar gun and watching and learing how to make fast stops. I've been riding for almost 40 years and I still could not equal the stopping distances of even the ABS bikes, let alone those with conventional braking systems. The only riders that can stop faster than ABS/linked brakes have had extensive race track experience. Remember that the race tracks normally don't have oil, leaves, sand, anti-freeze, gravel dear ****, etc... on them. On the street--you can ride over almost anything when you apply the brakes.

If you're going to "de-link" this new FJR braking system why stop there? Get a set of carburetors, a set of dual-points and some old ignition coils and change everything out all at the same time. Throw away those radial tires and get some good bias-ply--they'll last over 15,000 miles with almost no tread wear. These changes will allow your new FJR to perform as well as any motorcycle manufactured in 1975 and you can sell all the replaced parts on eBay.

+1

He he he he..... :lol:

Well said. But besides the kick start, you forgot the spoked wheels with integral drum brake, and inner tubes for the tires.

Oh God, drum brakes, there's an experience I don't want to live through again.

 

[FJRottie]

You'll be amazed at what you can adapt to and then learn what you really don't want to be without

I learned that some cry when people don't join their bandwagon.

 

[Tinker]

Well Hell, all this and it isn't even winter yet. Could be a very long cold spell for some.

 

[twowheelnut]

You'll be amazed at what you can adapt to and then learn what you really don't want to be without

I learned that some cry when people don't join their bandwagon.

****, ain't that the truth!

 

[tripletango]

Another point for linked brakes? Talking from the point of view of getting on the brakes more quickly. Let's say you are in relaxed cruising mode and no fingers on the brake lever. A deer jumps out in front and generally you can get your foot on the lever a fraction of a second before you can unwrap your fingers and get em on the lever. (yeh I know 2 fingers etc. maybe in heavy traffic for me, should be more I know)

Right now you can jump on the rear brake and slide or with ABS judder along locking and unlocking the rear wheel. That is if your timing is not quite right with the front brake!

With the linked brakes you would have no such problems the bike would be slowing quickly and safely before you modulated the input with the front brake to max out braking.

It would be a new aspect of safer riding - maybe? Know I will be using the rear brake lever a lot more aggressively on 06.

 

[user 357]

Has anyone seen a chart showing the stopping distance and times for example from 70MPH to 0...........For ABS and Non ABS

 

[tripletango]

Has anyone seen a chart showing the stopping distance and times for example from 70MPH to 0...........For ABS and Non ABS

Should be the same!

 

[gRed04]

When reading all the posts from those who love ABS and LBS, one must keep in mind that over 60% of FJR riders are gray haired old guys with slower reflexes, many of whom came to this bike from cruisers or from a mid-life retirement from riding motorcycles. So it's no surprise to see a bunch of support here for automated riding, these guys need all the help Yamaha can give them. Small wonder that automatic shifting is available in '06 as well - just good market research on Yamaha's part. Doesn't mean everyone wants to be forced down this road, however......
Those Keith Code style automatic training wheels will be next, to help all those who can't seem to remember how to navigate a parking lot or park their bike without tipping it over.  :haha:

Hi all. Been lurking a couple weeks as I have been seriously considering adding a 06AE.

Feel the need to reply to this post based on the idiotic comments made by this clown. ANYONE that believes that ABS is a feature created for old guys with poor reflexes has got to have spent a little too much time in a closed garage with a running vehicle.

All the "sponsored" professional racers here ( hahaha ) and their claims about how ABS limits their capabilities in stopping also make me laugh.

Truth is ABS is about making consistent, fast ( not always fastest ), short ( not always shortest ), CONTROLLED stops in situations where time and/or environment are working against you. Quick(er) reflexes certainly help but are only a small percentage of controlled stops in those situations.

You know the same needless feature that ALL automobiles now provide because of the proven and verifiable increase in safety for all drivers young and old.

Youngster I'm sure your comments regarding automated riding was made just after your mom got you up from your nap because you were not thinking too clearly yet. Ahhh, that thing about automatic shifting? You do realize that it is a automated clutch right? Shifting still required. In fact shifts that can occur in 0.1 seconds ( as per Yamaha site ) would only slow you down wouldn't they? :lol:

Good thing everyone here and their opinions are NOT as informed as you are.

Everyone else great community. Been very interesting reading. Hope to join the ranks sometime later in the year.

 

[panthercity]

Nevermind

 

[tripletango]

When reading all the posts from those who love ABS and LBS, one must keep in mind that over 60% of FJR riders are gray haired old guys with slower reflexes, many of whom came to this bike from cruisers or from a mid-life retirement from riding motorcycles. So it's no surprise to see a bunch of support here for automated riding, these guys need all the help Yamaha can give them. Small wonder that automatic shifting is available in '06 as well - just good market research on Yamaha's part. Doesn't mean everyone wants to be forced down this road, however......
Those Keith Code style automatic training wheels will be next, to help all those who can't seem to remember how to navigate a parking lot or park their bike without tipping it over.  :haha:

Hi all. Been lurking a couple weeks as I have been seriously considering adding a 06AE.

Feel the need to reply to this post based on the idiotic comments made by this clown. ANYONE that believes that ABS is a feature created for old guys with poor reflexes has got to have spent a little too much time in a closed garage with a running vehicle.

All the "sponsored" professional racers here ( hahaha ) and their claims about how ABS limits their capabilities in stopping also make me laugh.

Truth is ABS is about making consistent, fast ( not always fastest ), short ( not always shortest ), CONTROLLED stops in situations where time and/or environment are working against you. Quick(er) reflexes certainly help but are only a small percentage of controlled stops in those situations.

You know the same needless feature that ALL automobiles now provide because of the proven and verifiable increase in safety for all drivers young and old.

Youngster I'm sure your comments regarding automated riding was made just after your mom got you up from your nap because you were not thinking too clearly yet. Ahhh, that thing about automatic shifting? You do realize that it is a automated clutch right? Shifting still required. In fact shifts that can occur in 0.1 seconds ( as per Yamaha site ) would only slow you down wouldn't they? :lol:

Good thing everyone here and their opinions are NOT as informed as you are.

Everyone else great community. Been very interesting reading. Hope to join the ranks sometime later in the year.

Feisty first post !! Generally I agree with your mechanical analysis. Hell I agree with all of it!!

 

[shuswaper]

Hey there gred...your right on the money and you have noticed,no doubt, that there is much ego around here.Why some people cannot handle technological improvement is beyond me.I guess it's related to that old thing about most people having difficulty with change.Yeah...good first post there gred! Feel free to pipe in anytime...we need more I.Q. around here..... :assasin:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

gRed04:<snip>Truth is ABS is about making consistent, fast (not always fastest), short (not always shortest), CONTROLLED stops in situations where time and/or environment are working against you.
You know the same needless feature that ALL automobiles now provide because of the proven and verifiable increase in safety for all drivers young and old.

You call that I.Q.? Truth is : ABS (Anti-skid Braking System) is primarily for braking on slippery surfaces -- please, tell me how you're gonna ride your bike on slippery surfaces. And the comment about "millions of Americans can't be wrong" -- they love V-6 front-drive p.o.s. cars, too -- certainly doesn't make them better, imho.Besides, I think the thread was about "de-linking"?

 

[gRed04]

gRed04:<snip>Truth is ABS is about making consistent, fast (not always fastest), short (not always shortest), CONTROLLED stops in situations where time and/or environment are working against you.
You know the same needless feature that ALL automobiles now provide because of the proven and verifiable increase in safety for all drivers young and old.

You call that I.Q.? Truth is : ABS (Anti-skid Braking System) is primarily for braking on slippery surfaces -- please, tell me how you're gonna ride your bike on slippery surfaces. And the comment about "millions of Americans can't be wrong" -- they love V-6 front-drive p.o.s. cars, too -- certainly doesn't make them better, imho.Besides, I think the thread was about "de-linking"?

Hmmm, maybe it was called anti-skid sometime in the early seventies but trust me on this, the systems of today are anti-lock ( just kidding you on that ).

Meaning they do not easily lock. Wet, dry, or in between. Clear roads or roads with debris. No lock ( and of course no skid ) usually translates into shorter and more controlled stops.

You need to read a little closer. I never commented "millions of Americans" can't be wrong. I implied the entire Auto Industry now sells vehicles like this because of the indisputable proof that they are a safety feature.

You care to dispute that?

Last point I was replying to someone else's comment regarding ABS & LBS being a feature for old people with poor reflexes.

I have no opinion on how well LBS works in motorcycles as I have never ridden one that had it. Although on paper I would think it too should help a two wheel vehicle stop in a controlled manner.

 

[panthercity]

The big benefit of automotive ABS is not shorter stopping distances, it is the ability to steer around the accident.

Unfortunately, many people don't know that and they have never been trained so they react by just standing on the brakes.

 

[gRed04]

The big benefit of automotive ABS is not shorter stopping distances, it is the ability to steer around the accident.
Unfortunately, many people don't know that and they have never been trained so they react by just standing on the brakes.

ABS in general works by applying brakes and checking for locked wheel condition. If locking is detected then the brake pressure is momentarily removed and then re-applied ( pulsing ).

The reason you can steer is the wheels are not locked for any real length of time. You have very limited ability to steer a vehicle with locked wheels. Given you the ability to steer is a real benefit of ABS but I would disagree that this was the design goal. Collision avoidance is a acquired skill. Not everyone will steer appropriately to avoid a accident. However, anyone who can stand on a brake pedal will stop quicker and in a more controlled manner then if left to their own accord.

I believe the goal has always been to help bring a vehicle to rest in the quickest and most controlled manner possible. You see this in some of the more complex ABS systems from makers like MB and BMW where they include features like “Brake Assist”. If a brake pedal travels a certain distance in a certain time this is detected as a panic stop and the computer overrides by applying maximum braking until the car comes to rest.

No attempt for steering here.

Great point though. Another great benefit of ABS.

 

[Windjammer]

Feel the need to reply to this post based on the idiotic comments made by this clown. ANYONE that believes that ABS is a feature created for old guys with poor reflexes has got to have spent a little too much time in a closed garage with a running vehicle.

My, what personal angst! The comment about gray haired guys was intended to poke a little fun, not get yer panties all in a bunch. But since it was yer first post you probably still take every comment on an internet forum personally. Not a good habit. Your bald spot will grow if you keep this up. :haha:

Now calm down, fix your combover, and take a pill or two. There, that's better. Now I'll tell ya, I ain't no spring chicken meself. Pushin' 40, but have been riding continuously since age 10, started on dirtbikes. See, the deal for me ain't about being afraid of technology, ain't about fear of change, it ain't about ego and it ain't about fear of slippery surfaces when braking or having a wheel lock up. Being a dirt rider, having a wheel start to break traction during braking is just not a sphincter shrinker at all. Just modulate the brake lever a little and the wheel unlocks. I've had both wheels break loose on wet pavement going around an on-ramp on my Concours (not on purpose). Just kept a cool head and let the bike up a hair and all was good. Didn't even raise my heart rate because it was a normal reaction for me. And I'm not bragging, there's LOTS of riders better than me, both street and dirt.

The simple point is: Not all of us need or want linked brakes (throw ABS and TCS in there for me as well). Why is that such a problem for those who desire such features? Why do they believe that just because they think it's a good thing for them, then anyone who doesn't is an *****/*******/squid/anti-tech guy/whatever?

Anyway, sorry if I pissed ya off with the old man comments. But if it was enough to get ya to quit lurking and start posting, then it was worth it! Cheers bro!

 

[Powerman]

I'm not real keen on the linked braking, I ordered an 06. 47 yrs old and experienced rider, I like to be in control. I hated the linked braking on the Blackhawk, but didn't mind it on the GL1800. I guess I will give it a try and see. I will have to see how complicated and interconnected the linked system is when I get it. I like the KISS principle. I have a 2000 ST1100, CBR900 and an old GSXR750.

ABS I like to different degrees. Some bike systems suck, others are OK.

 

[hippo]

All the "sponsored" professional racers here ( hahaha ) and their claims about how ABS limits their capabilities in stopping also make me laugh.
You know the same needless feature that ALL automobiles now provide because of the proven and verifiable increase in safety for all drivers young and old.

At the current level of technological development, ABS on a track bike would be terrifying. That said, I prefer my bikes to have ABS on the street. My big fear with ABS on the track is that it decides to activate while I'm leaned over. I can ( usually ) recover from a front end slide, but I don't think I could recover from the lock-release-lock of ABS activation. On the track, I'd rather have the predictability of normal hydraulic brakes.

On the track, I can definitely stop faster than ABS (I don't know of any OEM ABS that will let you lift the rear wheel under braking (although I have heard anecdotal accounts of Ducatis being able to do this)). But it's kind of a special, unrealistic environment. I'm pumped up and have total focus for 15-30 minutes. I'm going over the same stretch of pristine pavement over and over and over again. I have braking markers. I spend all day doing the same thing over and over and over again.

That just doesn't happen in the real world. I can't maintain a track focus for an entire commute or tour. I don't intimately know the pavement because I've been lapping the same road all day. In an emergency on the road, you get one chance -- and on the street, with all its variables, I bet the computer can stop faster than I can nearly every time.

There's a difference between being ready for a maximum braking attempt and suddenly finding yourself doing one. It's like playing the lottery. If you let me play after the numbers have been drawn, I bet you I could win every time.

So, I know I can beat the computer, you just have to give me the exact same pavement, exact same situational variables and let me practice. This just doesn't happen in the real world.

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One of the insurance research companies found that the introduction of ABS didn't change accident statistics at all. If they did, you'd see discounts for cars with ABS brakes (analogous to alarms lowering theft statistics) and I'm not aware that any are offered.

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As for the professional racers, I'm just a decent trackday rider, however I've seen some AMA expert tags in the signature lines here. You have absolutely no clue what fast is or what a motorcycle can do until you've ridden with those guys.

 

[afterburn]

Food for thought: there was similar discussion in 1998/1999 when the VFR got linked brakes. Everyone felt they were BS and didn't add anything. Some magazine did a test. They took the then all new R1, which had the best brakes available according to most, the CBR900RR, not too shabby either in the brake department, the VFR800 and some others. Much to their suprise, the VFR's linked brakes consistantly and significantly outperformed all other bikes. On all road surfaces and under all conditions. Bikes like the R1 and CBR felt like they were braking harder, but distances proved otherwise. At that time, the best brakes and fastest stopping bike was the VFR with linked brakes.

 

[radman]

I really like how easy itis to put brake oil in when I'm low. 2 screws and I'm on my way to incredible stoppingpower. I prefer STP to regular brake oil cuz it's fortified.