EBC Brakes SD-System - Square sided Drive rivet rotors

[JamesK]

Given the latest measurements of my rotors I will likely be looking for replacements in a not too distant future. In my search, I just came across this new rotor design by EBC Brakes that is not only competitively priced but is also lighter, and claims to eliminate rotor vibrations and reduce probability of warping.

Has anyone heard of these EBC Brakes SD rotors, the idea behind it does sound logical.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Just some off the cuff comments, having never replaced rotors..... I'm throwing in a few grains of salt.

The weight difference is 240g or 7.7 oz. which they may achieve by removing material (scalloped edges, drilled holes) assuming the same thickness. They also claim to reduce the number of rivets required. Does it really matter for the "gyroscopic" effect? Not to me. They don't turn fast enough to create much of that. In fact, comparing tire/wheel balance, your tire/wheel has to be out substantially for you to notice it, unless at substantial speed of course. However, that sales hype does have a wee bit of merit, I'm just saying the average street rider ain't gonna notice much.

The FJR rotors do float more than Hondas e.g., and that's why we get a clunk sometimes as the rotors take up the slack at the rivets. I can see a benefit to square rivets to eliminate the clunk, but all rotors in effect must compensate for expansion/contraction so they don't warp. EBC isn't telling us anything new, but trying to imply we have warping rotors? Don't think so.

I would be more inclined to believe they may have better stopping power when used with their pads, and they may last longer than the OEM rotors because they are a better material. But if my originals aren't worn out, I wouldn't jump to replace them. The stock brakes work pretty good.

Perhaps some with more knowledge and experience will disagree.

Next question, what special tools are required to replace rotor rivets? I've never done it, so don't know. That is one thing I wouldn't want to screw up.

 

[JamesK]

I agree with most of you points as it applies to a bike like the FJR, its just at a similar price point these do sound interesting if rotor replacements are in order anyway.

As far as changing rotors, I remember reading some threads on this forum where you will need to apply some localized heat to the rivet bolts and use an impact wrench to break the red locktite they use on these bolts, but that's about all the special tools/considerations that would be required. I hope someone who's actually done this job will chime in.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Sounds good. Perhaps I misunderstood. I was perhaps mistakenly thinking the rotors were coming without hubs and you had to rivet them on with their square rivets....... meaning special expertise and tools. If they come with hubs, then they are a bolt-on. Agree with the method of removal (may not need heat), as I have done that before several times. Most OEM's will tell you not to re-use the old bolts because they will be weakened. I have re-used (once), just be very careful not to overtorque.

Anyway, if you are in need of rotors, nothing wrong with the EBC's, or Galfers for that matter. Others have posted that the sintered EBC pads will wear out the OEM rotors too quickly, and it might be best to stick with the OEM pads or Kevlar pads.

 

[JamesK]

Just to follow up on my original EBC Rotors post.

My OEM rotors have now reached levels of wear that requires replacements, and I decided to order the EBC XC (C = contoured) Front Rotors and the their standard contoured Rear Rotor.

Despite what seems like a lot of info out there about which rotors one needs for the GenII FJR finding the correct part numbers is still somewhat confusing. So below I'm posting my findings, after having spoken with EBC Tech and one of the UK EBC resellers (since EBC does not deal directly with retail customers).

For the US Spec GenII FJR (FJR 1300 AV/AEV/AW/AEW/AX/AEX/AY/AEY/AZ) your choices are:

 

- Front Rotor (SD): MD2089X (solid) or MD2089XC (contoured) - fully floating rotor.

 

- Rear Rotor: MD2092 (solid) or MD2092C (contoured)

note: the Euro Spec GenII FJR apparently uses a different Rear Rotor: MD2100 (only available in solid style)

Front XC (SD) Contoured Rotor : cost: GBP122 or $194 per rotor



Rear Contoured Rotor : cost: GPB75 or $119 per rotor



My searches revealed the following that anyone looking to buy the genuine EBC Rotors should be aware off:

1. the only authorized US EBC reseller Perfect Brakes charges full MSRP price.

2. there are two authorized UK EBC resellers:

2a. EBC Brakes Direct similarly to the US reseller does not offer much/any discount

2b. Brakes4U offers a 10% discount and the VAT is automatically removed once you enter your non-UK address on the shipping screen. If you want to call them, ask to speak with John Riley on Tel: +44 1604 464 309

3. there are EBC rotors listed on eBay for around 1/2 the price however, these are old stock, so are NOT Square Drive (SD) rotors. I was also advised that some of the EBC rotors sold on eBay are knockoffs. I was told that the 2010 X Series Rotors all have the vertical slit opposite the rivets.

4. The EBC Brakes Tech support (Tel: +44 1604 583344) is very helpful, I spoke with a guy called Spike and he helped me figure out the correct part numbers for the rotors I was looking for.

EBC also have a more race oriented Front Rotor called Pro-Lite, which is more expensive and according to the EBC Tech is actually less appropriate for the FJR or other road bikes, since these are not Stainless Steel so will be prone to rust if the bike is unused for for any length of time.



As a point of reference, BikeBandit was only able to offer me the Pro-Lite Front rotors and the solid Rear rotor, their system simply did not have the part numbers/listings for the rotors shown above.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Good info, thanks. Let us know how they perform.

 

[Fred W]

My OEM rotors have now reached levels of wear that requires replacements,

What level of wear is that, and how many miles did it take you to reach that?

The reason that I ask is that I would not replace a set of rotors merely because they no longer meet the published thickness spec. The thickness spec is there as that is what the design engineers think needs to be maintained to not be prone to warp under heavy use (from heat). As long as you do not experience any warpage (brake pulsation) even with heavy use, the brakes are perfectly safe to operate when worn to below min. thickness spec IMO.

Of course if you wanted to "upgrade" the rotors that is your prerogative. It just may not have been "needed".

 

[mcatrophy]

...

Under the heat of braking a rotor blade ... causing the inside of the rotor blade to shrink radially inwards towards the hub.

The trouble is, when you read total b*llsh*t like this, you have to wonder about the rest of what they claim.

For the record, a heated rotor only expands outwards, even its inner radius.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that little factoid, myself. But not being sure, I figured I'd leave it alone. Thanks for confirming my suspicion.

I wonder what kind of engineering degrees those EBC design guys have?

 

[JamesK]

My OEM rotors have now reached levels of wear that requires replacements,

What level of wear is that, and how many miles did it take you to reach that?

The reason that I ask is that I would not replace a set of rotors merely because they no longer meet the published thickness spec. The thickness spec is there as that is what the design engineers think needs to be maintained to not be prone to warp under heavy use (from heat). As long as you do not experience any warpage (brake pulsation) even with heavy use, the brakes are perfectly safe to operate when worn to below min. thickness spec IMO.

Of course if you wanted to "upgrade" the rotors that is your prerogative. It just may not have been "needed".

Being back in the "Twisty Zone" I get to use my brakes a lot, since I only have one mode of riding the nice twisties - full on

Whilst I have been keen to upgrade my rotors, I would not have dropped that much $$$ on just a "want". My rotors are well below the FSM specs, but more to the point, since I'm running sintered pads they are quite worn although not warped yet, they look pretty damn thin, with the edges having very noticeable and quite deep ridges. It's getting to the point now where after a moderate series of tight (especially downhill) twisties the front rotors will get so hot that they start to almost glow, this also leads to brake fade issues. This has never happened before when I'd be riding in a similar way on my visits to GA, NC, AR, etc.

I have already flushed the brake fluid with Super DOT 4 (which over here is somewhere b/w DOT 4 & DOT 5.1 in temperature rating). DOT 5.1 fluid here is rare and stupidly expensive.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but the SD concept does make some sense to me. Since as Mcatrophy points out the heat related expansion is radially outwards having extra "give" in the rivets outwards would theoretically provide better heat expansion management. Also, as their promo info states, with the SD design there is a much larger point of contact area b/w the hub and the rotor blade vs the single point of contact with a conventional round rivet. In any case even if this is all just "good theory" the pricing of these is on par or better than most of the reputable competition and not very much more than OEM replacements, at least not for me after factoring in the stupidly high shipping costs to Japan.

 

[lnewlf]

Yup, any backyard mechanic knows that if you heat a frozen nut it expands and is easier to remove. Or if you put the torch to a brake drum rusted on to an axel flange the entire drum including the hole gets bigger. Don't know why EBC dumped this pile unless it's just marketing hype. That said, I junked the garbage oem rotors on my FJ1200,all three of which were warped every which way at 20k. and put on EBC cast iron rotors which were worlds better and still true and barely worn at 100k. When the time comes I will look for cast iron rotors for the FJR. EBC cast iron rotors are zinc plated and don't rust except for the swept area which is obviously self cleaning.

 

[JamesK]

What, is Fri already

I'll make sure to post up the results once I get the rotors installed.

 

[JamesK]

So I got a chance to pull off the old rotors, it turned out to be a non-event :yahoo: I was worried after reading various posts about stuck bolts, however, I was using an air impact wrench so I guess that made the difference.

Anyway, again in other posts somewhere I remember reading about people advising to use Red loctite, which I assumed was what was used originally given how stubborn these bolts could be. When I removed my old rotor bolts, I discovered that Yamaha used the Blue loctite originally (as I believe FJRBluesman discovered).

So the question is, why would folks be recommending using Red vs. Blue loctite for this application? I will be using the Blue loctite but would like to know what others are thinking, given these are SS bolts going into Alloy.