Electrical Overload

[JimLor]

Got a PM from one of our brothers last week and felt badly because I couldn’t give him a definitive answer to his question. It’s been bugging me since then so let me ask it here. Question concerned electrical load/limits and an aftermarket horn. If one adds an aftermarket horn that draws more power than stock, and you’re at the limit on farkles, what happens when you blow your new horn?

Assumptions:

1. If you go over what your system will handle (this assumes that you have everything you own turned on and are right at the max), even for the short time you’d blow your horn, you’ll, at the least, blow a fuze (either for the horn or the “big” fuze) at worst maybe you’ll do that and melt some wires.

2. For an aftermarket horn you only have to consider that wattage over the wattage of the stock horn which is already accounted for. IOW, if the stock horn draws 10w and the aftermarket draws 20w, the aftermarket adds 10w to your calculations.

Here’s the scenario:----(assume an 05) You’re tooling down the road and pulling 480/490w (the horn you haven’t hit yet accounts for the other 10w – BUT you added an aftermarket horn that draws 20w) and out in front of you pulls some guy in his “look at me I’m richer than you” BMW and he’s drinking his mocha – latte - half caf - extra hot - soy - no foam - and while you’re at it throw on some of those chocolate sprinkles - girly-man coffee and – who knows how this could happen – he doesn’t see you - or better yet he does see you but since he’s driving a car he can’t pay for he believes he has more right to be on the road than you do! So you jam on every brake you can find (ABS) and lay on the horn.

What happens to your electrical system?

 

[Chips]

If you are using the stock horn harness to and simply popped a higher amperage fuse in the fuseblock, you could fry the wires before the fuse blows.

If you are using the stock horn harness as the trigger wire and the new horn is inserted using a relay, fuse and propor gauge wire, then your guess would be as good as any. I think your lights would dim and your horn output would be significantly less than expected. But electrical gremlins may happen like sporadic fueling, dim lights, or nonfunctioning ABS, the gauge cluster resetting. etc. All in all, not a good thing.

 

[Geezer]

Got a PM from one of our brothers last week and felt badly because I couldn’t give him a definitive answer to his question. It’s been bugging me since then so let me ask it here. Question concerned electrical load/limits and an aftermarket horn. If one adds an aftermarket horn that draws more power than stock, and you’re at the limit on farkles, what happens when you blow your new horn?
Assumptions:

1. If you go over what your system will handle (this assumes that you have everything you own turned on and are right at the max), even for the short time you’d blow your horn, you’ll, at the least, blow a fuze (either for the horn or the “big” fuze) at worst maybe you’ll do that and melt some wires.

2. For an aftermarket horn you only have to consider that wattage over the wattage of the stock horn which is already accounted for. IOW, if the stock horn draws 10w and the aftermarket draws 20w, the aftermarket adds 10w to your calculations.

Here’s the scenario:----(assume an 05) You’re tooling down the road and pulling 480/490w (the horn you haven’t hit yet accounts for the other 10w – BUT you added an aftermarket horn that draws 20w) and out in front of you pulls some guy in his “look at me I’m richer than you” BMW and he’s drinking his mocha – latte - half caf - extra hot - soy - no foam - and while you’re at it throw on some of those chocolate sprinkles - girly-man coffee and – who knows how this could happen – he doesn’t see you - or better yet he does see you but since he’s driving a car he can’t pay for he believes he has more right to be on the road than you do! So you jam on every brake you can find (ABS) and lay on the horn.

What happens to your electrical system?

My guess: Depends on how you have it wired. If you wire the new horn with adequate wiring and relay and the right size fuse, wired directly to the battery and use the original horn circuit to control the relay, you will not melt a wire or blow a fuse. If your battery is in a good state of charge there will probably be enough juice in there to give a good blast of horn but not a prolonged blast. Might heat up the stator and, if you draw the battery down too much too fast you could find yourself without enough juice to keep the bike running.

 

[Warchild]

So you jam on every brake you can find (ABS) and lay on the horn.
What happens to your electrical system?

Nothing. You'll be just fine. (assuming you just blast him for the typical 5-ish seconds, thereabouts)

That having been said..... your scenario is an unlikely one.

First of all, the stock stator may be rated at 490-watts nominal, the rider never sees that much on the business end of things. Losses due to heat, inefficiencies, etc, etc cost quite a few watts. ElectrosportUSA bench-tested a relatively new 2004 FJR1300ABS when they were developing the high-output ESG-130 stator for our bikes, and they said it topped out at around 420-watts @ 5000 RPM. If accurate, this leaves us with roughly 120-ish watts above that needed just to run the bike. This is consistent with what I am seeing on the road just from my experience and closely observing the Datel as I change various electrical loads.

If you are *truly* taxing your electrical system such that you are utilizing every possible bit of power generated by your stator, and do this on an ongoing basis, you will be replacing it much, much, MUCH sooner than the norm.

Now, back to the scenario you suggested.... assuming you are at the very limit of electrical output/consumption, if using the horn pushes you over the edge by this theoretical 10-watts, the bike will still run; nothing is going to "happen", but you will start "dipping into the bank" (battery reserve) for that period of time you are laying on the horn. As long as you don't operate the horn (or any electrical device) that "pushes you over" the charging/consumption balance for an extended period, you're still good.

On that note, I will also remind you that the ABS system does NOT enjoy a low-voltage condition, so this is another reason to husband your electrical system to the extent you can. There are a myriad of ways to do this, from introducing **** interrupts, to replacing all side/brake lights with their LED equivalents, to going with HID headlights, etc, etc.

Or just get the below ESG-130 stator installed and be worry-free. B)

 

[JimLor]

Thanks for the replies. Hopefully the originator of the question is watching! I'm going to look into the LED replacement as well as the improved stator.

 

[Ignacio]

+I think Warchild nailed the meat of it and the conclusion.

I would just add that I think your horns consume significantly more than 10 or 20 watts. I believe stock ones consume about 3 amps each and Magnum Blasters consume about 6 amps each. See discussion here. Amps and watts are different figures, so 12 amps total x 12 volts = 144 watts.

Now, that's 144 short-term watts that are just being and hard on the stock wires and horn switch. They're eating into a battery reserve for a very short duration....unless you're riding around with the horn on. And, that's the key is the battery reserve question. If you've been wandering around a long time with lots of lights on, heating vest, etc. to where the battery is at the end of it's reserve.....you hit the horn and ABS you could theoretically be in trouble. But I think you'd have seen the manifestation of running a continual battery deficit previous to that occasion. It would have been a case where lights start to go dim or you can't start your bike after a long ride.

 

[Cdogman]

Man, I was gonna say what WC said except the part about the new stator.

Now I see another new farkle I need and I dont even know where it put it yet.......... I had a hell of a time just getting the tupperware off the bike for my little wiring extravaganza this week. There has got to be a trick I dont know for that, I tell ya. The Shop manual sucks for that

 

[raclow]

I am the originator of the question to JimLor. I want to thank him for being concerned enough to post this question to the board....many thanks to you.

Here is the list of farkles I run when riding my bike:

Sirius Satellite Radio Receiver--On all the time--I like to listen to music while I ride

8500 Radar Detector with volt meter activated--For the times I go too fast to the beat of the music.--On all the time

Autocom Pro M1 Comm System--Have to have it to hear everything else--On all the time

Heated Grips--Every once in a while I will turn these on. I do wear great gloves.

Garmin 2720 GPS unit--On all the time while riding.

Cobra Handheld CB--Every once in a while I use this to talk to the Goldwinger's. NOT currently powered through the bike

but have thought about using Cig Adapter to Power Socket on right front panel of bike. Currently

battery powered. Works great with PTT button on Autocom unit.

I'm wanting to ADD, yes add something else, to the bike....Nautilus Compact horn. Will this horn, with everything else, cause me a problem with wattage overload?

No, I don't see myself riding around with this horn blaring all the time but when I need to use it I don't want to have any problems. I would use the 30 amp relay and harness method connected directly to the battery using the existing horn wires to activate the relay.

What are your thoughts now?????

 

[Warchild]

I am the originator of the question to JimLor. I want to thank him for being concerned enough to post this question to the board....many thanks to you.
Here is the list of farkles I run when riding my bike:

Sirius Satellite Radio Receiver--On all the time--I like to listen to music while I ride

8500 Radar Detector with volt meter activated--For the times I go too fast to the beat of the music.--On all the time

Autocom Pro M1 Comm System--Have to have it to hear everything else--On all the time

Heated Grips--Every once in a while I will turn these on. I do wear great gloves.

Garmin 2720 GPS unit--On all the time while riding.

Cobra Handheld CB--Every once in a while I use this to talk to the Goldwinger's. NOT currently powered through the bike

but have thought about using Cig Adapter to Power Socket on right front panel of bike. Currently

battery powered. Works great with PTT button on Autocom unit.

I'm wanting to ADD, yes add something else, to the bike....Nautilus Compact horn. Will this horn, with everything else, cause me a problem with wattage overload?

No, I don't see myself riding around with this horn blaring all the time but when I need to use it I don't want to have any problems. I would use the 30 amp relay and harness method connected directly to the battery using the existing horn wires to activate the relay.

What are your thoughts now?????

You have no problems whatsoever.

The only items that draws any significant wattage are the heated grips (and the horn when it is actually activated).

The rest are fairly trivial draws. You are totally good-to-go, including the Nautilus horn.

 

[raclow]

I am the originator of the question to JimLor. I want to thank him for being concerned enough to post this question to the board....many thanks to you.
Here is the list of farkles I run when riding my bike:

Sirius Satellite Radio Receiver--On all the time--I like to listen to music while I ride

8500 Radar Detector with volt meter activated--For the times I go too fast to the beat of the music.--On all the time

Autocom Pro M1 Comm System--Have to have it to hear everything else--On all the time

Heated Grips--Every once in a while I will turn these on. I do wear great gloves.

Garmin 2720 GPS unit--On all the time while riding.

Cobra Handheld CB--Every once in a while I use this to talk to the Goldwinger's. NOT currently powered through the bike

but have thought about using Cig Adapter to Power Socket on right front panel of bike. Currently

battery powered. Works great with PTT button on Autocom unit.

I'm wanting to ADD, yes add something else, to the bike....Nautilus Compact horn. Will this horn, with everything else, cause me a problem with wattage overload?

No, I don't see myself riding around with this horn blaring all the time but when I need to use it I don't want to have any problems. I would use the 30 amp relay and harness method connected directly to the battery using the existing horn wires to activate the relay.

What are your thoughts now?????

You have no problems whatsoever.

The only items that draws any significant wattage are the heated grips (and the horn when it is actually activated).

The rest are fairly trivial draws. You are totally good-to-go, including the Nautilus horn.

Warchild:

Is it possible to power the handheld cb or charge a phone through the power socket on the right front panel without any additional problems with everything else going on???

Thanks.

 

[beeroux]

The CB and Cell charger are less then trivial with regards to electric demand.

As Warchild said: You are GOOD TO GO!

GZ

 

[raclow]

The horn and front panel power socket is installed. Boy, are those Nautilus horns loud. The power outlet worked out as well.

I'm running 13.8 to 13.9 volts with everything on. If I hit the horn, volts drop to 13.2 volts and back to 13.8 volts. Didn't blow a fuse or blow the bike up... :yahoo:

Every bike should come with horns this loud.....stock....no extra. Will help more people from getting ran over by the cagers.

I'm glad this is over...it took me and ARFJR 5 hours to do this work. :clapping: We took our time and the install looks great!!!

 

[ARFJR]

Thanks for sharing the credit on the install!

 

[GAPS]

There are a myriad of ways to do this, from introducing **** interrupts,

Oh man, **** interrupts are a drag, there must be a better way.

 

[wheatonFJR]

The horn and front panel power socket is installed. Boy, are those Nautilus horns loud. The power outlet worked out as well.
I'm running 13.8 to 13.9 volts with everything on. If I hit the horn, volts drop to 13.2 volts and back to 13.8 volts. Didn't blow a fuse or blow the bike up... :yahoo:

Every bike should come with horns this loud.....stock....no extra. Will help more people from getting ran over by the cagers.

I'm glad this is over...it took me and ARFJR 5 hours to do this work. :clapping: We took our time and the install looks great!!!

piccies???

 

[raclow]

The horn and front panel power socket is installed. Boy, are those Nautilus horns loud. The power outlet worked out as well.
I'm running 13.8 to 13.9 volts with everything on. If I hit the horn, volts drop to 13.2 volts and back to 13.8 volts. Didn't blow a fuse or blow the bike up... :yahoo:

Every bike should come with horns this loud.....stock....no extra. Will help more people from getting ran over by the cagers.

I'm glad this is over...it took me and ARFJR 5 hours to do this work. :clapping: We took our time and the install looks great!!!

piccies???

My install for the horn was just like the one "donaldb" did on his bike......Clicky. DonaldB and ARFJR helped me tremendously in this venture.

If you have any questions please let me know. I will help as much as I can before you have to go to the "Warchild" for the final.